HCC 2006 Report?



#19

Is any of the visitors of the HCC 2006 conference willing to provide a short report for us poor Europeans?

Thanks, Meindert


#20

Hi, Meindert,

Highlights included:



Presentations


  • Best Presentation was won by Jeff Bronfield for "The method of Symmetrical Components," a very interesting talk about concrete applications of abstract mathematics in power systems. The math was fascinating, but I think the videos of arcing high voltage systems swayed the jury. (Not to mention Jeff's glee in presenting them. We know now what motivates electric power engineers. 8)
  • Presentation of Precision Survey Systems' DC50, A data collector based on the 49g+/50g.
  • A detailed look at the software for the above. Written using HPGCC, it beats the pants off all the competition.
  • Eric Smith's presentation of considerable progress in the DIY Calculator project. Two prototypes running emulations of many 20 series machines were shown.
  • Jean-Yves Avenard presented a prototype board for the Qonos scientific calculator project. This project foundered on the rocks of the financing required to get the largely completed design to market. Fortunately, Hydrix was able to apply much of the expertise they developed to other projects, and are a successful, going concern. Jean-Yves presented a handheld credit card terminal that is going into pilot in London taxicabs very soon. A large order awaits completion of successful trials. Jean-Yves described some of the measures Hydrix took to ensure physical and logical security of the device. Let's just say it would be a poor choice for a hobbyist to attempt a reverse engineering project with. 8)
  • Jake Schwartz presented a retrospective on 30 years of PPC conferences. Many current attendees appeared on screen with more hair. 8)
  • Jake got a lifetime acheivment award for his many,many contributions to the handheld computer community. (Personally, I am particularly grateful to him for his conservation of the various journals of calculator-related clubs.)
  • Richard Nelson delivered a paper entitled "Keeping HP Calculators Distinguishable." This presented some thoughts on design elements that helped make HP calculators successful in the past, and how these might be applied to calculators today. The paper took into account the changes in technology generally and the calculator marketplace specifically, and tried to abstract out principles that could apply across the changes.
  • Wlodek Mier-Jedrzejowicz made two presentations, One, "The Ideal HP33s - The eye problem and more." helped focus the message the conference delivered to HP about what we would collectively like to see HP produce. The other was a survey of current books about HP calculators.
  • Gene Wright made several presentations on the HP-12C, collecting interesting code that we could enter into our new machines. Valentin Albillo's trig programs were included. What a wizard he is!
  • Tim Wessman demonstrated HPGCC, showing what a marvelous tool it is for moving large amounts of data around a 49g+ or 50g. With large SD card support now a reality, that capability is increasingly important.
  • John Cadick presented "The Per Unit System," a mathematical technique for taming large complex electrical networks.


HP and Goodies


  • Presentation by Sam Kim of HP of a new autosensing solver that gives the answer to the problem you actually meant, rather than what you entered. Available now as a retrofit for the HP9g.
  • Just kidding. We are NDA'd to the hilt about what Sam Kim and Cyrille de Bression told us specifically, but in general, it was extremely positive stuff. If they can deliver on what they presented, HP will greatly please this community.
  • An HP-12Cp 25th anniversary calculator for each attendee! No joke, and a very nice gift. Thanks HP!
  • Lots of door prizes. Everybody got at least two. I chose a copy of Wlodek's "RCL 20" and an HP-9g. My number was picked in the last half of the first drawing and the first third of the second, so I think I did pretty well!

I'm sure I've left out something important. Please forgive my feeble memory if so. Fortunately, the "many eyeballs" phenomenon should help correct any omissions or errors on my part.

There was a lot of activity outside the formal presentations, too. This was my first HHC conference, and I had a ball. I will definitely be there next year in San Diego!

Regards,

Howard


Edited: 18 Sept 2006, 2:03 p.m.


#21

Hi Howard,

Many thanks for the many good news. It looks like HP are slowly back in business. Any signs of further software development for the HP-50G CAS? Also I'd like to know when the serial cable will come out. In the mean time I^'m taking a look at HPGCC and I'm really impressed.

Happy Programming, Daniel


#22

come out from where?

I have seen no statement from HP that they are ever planning to come out with a serial cable, so I'm not sure what you are looking for there.

There have been directions on comp.sys.hp48 about where to buy a serial cable that works.


#23

He's probably referring to my statments about working on getting a cable built.

The company we were working with finally got back to us: they want US$160K to build 2000 cables. . . so we are looking for different companies now. :-)

TW


#24

Wow, $80.00/ea wholesale? Outrageous! I hope that isn't indicative of what you will find elsewhere.

Regards,
Howard


#25

Quote:
Wow, $80.00/ea wholesale? Outrageous! I hope that isn't indicative of what you will find elsewhere.

Regards,
Howard


well, i think i could do a lot better than that, even if i have to sit down and make them myself!


#26

Quote:
i could do a lot better than that, even if i have to sit down and make them myself!

This one might get you close: RS232 to 3.3~5v TTL Converter Cable. You'll still need to add the mini-B USB connector to the calculator end of the cable.

No guarantee it'll work, but the price seems right: $16 + $3 s/h.

hth,
Matt


#27

Correction.. "mini-B USB connector" should have said "micro-B USB connector". And even that may not be the correct (industry) name. Different websites have different names for the same connector. Therefore, I recommend doing your own homework until you are satisfied that you have the right connector.

Sorry.
Matt

#28

It won't work. You'll also need to invert the signal. The low voltage is a 1 and the high voltage is a zero.

TW


#29

You're right Tim, there's no mention that it inverts the signal. Sounds like you tried one, or at least contacted the seller and asked that question.

Just last week, I was experiencing some RS232 comm issues between a datalogger and some new wireless (900Mhz) modems we are evaluating. I had my scope connected to monitor the TX and RX signals. It turns out the modem was only putting out positive (logic 0) signals and never swung below ground level, meaning it never provided any negative (logic 1) signals. The factory told me they were going through some PCB and firmware revisions because of the issues we (and other folks) were seeing.

Tim, just sell me one of your cables (I saw them at the conference, but they weren't for sale). They looked great, just the way HP should've made them, except they didn't %-[

Matt

#30

Crazy. Even big box consumer electronics stores sell all kinds of pc cables for US$30.00 each and they make a fortune on them.

#31

Hi,

Well I've never seen any advert by HP on the serial cable either. But I can expect them do sell one if thy choose such a special connector - am I totally wrong?
t really bother me that they come out with half thought out stuff. I have an interesting application for the serial port. Has HP ever been asked what the plan is?

Cheers Danel


#32

Daniel, the best place to ask those types of questions is comp.sys.hp48

HP reads that group and would be more likely to respond there.

And, I do not think HP will be selling a serial cable. Period.

Hopefully, an inexpensive cable will be found otherwise. (And, I'm 99% certain that's already been found on comp.sys.hp48).

#33

Howard,

Thanks for your very quick response. It looks like HP is getting their act together again. I am particularly interested in Eric Smith's project. Does Eric himself care to update us?

Meindert

#34

Thanks for the synopsis. Can you give some details about what was specifically said about the 33s? Also, what do you mean when you say that "we are NDA'd to the hilt"? Thanks.


#35

NDA = Non Disclosue Agreement

#36

What Wlodek did is present some ideas about addressing some of the well-known "shortcomings" of the 33s.

For example, the two primary issues are lack of labels and lack of storage registers. So, what could be done?

Add local labels
Add more labels period
etc.

he talked about them but also addressed the relative difficulty of each potential solution.

Same thing with storage registers.

Remember, this was a user presentation, not HP.

So most of what he talked about would fit in with what we have all known about the 33S and what we would wish for any updated version.

Who knows? Perhaps something good will come of it.

I do believe HP is paying more attention to color choices now than they were two years ago, for example.

That's one of the immense benefits of going to a conference and making a presentation with HP in attendence. You just never know...

#37

Hello Howard,

Quote:
Gene Wright made several presentations on the HP-12C, collecting interesting code that we could enter into our new machines. Valentin Albillo's trig programs were included. What a wizard he is!

Totally agreed! However, since you have an HP-12C Platinum 25th Anniversary Edition like mine you might want to try a trig program designed specifically for the 12C Platinum. It is twice and a half as longer than Valentin's but you might be surprised with the accuracy, the speed and the wider input ranges. Please take a look at this former thread for more details.

From Math History in
this site:


Quote:
1342: Levi ben Gerson (Gersonides) writes De sinibus, chordis et arcubus (Concerning Sines, Chords and Arcs), a treatise on trigonometry which gives a proof of the sine theorem for plane triangles and gives five figure sine tables.

Well, 664 years later Gerson W. Barbosa offers you eleven-figure complete trig tables on your 12CP :-)

Best regards,

Gerson.

P.S.: When you're done with keying in either program take the time to see how sin(666), in degrees, relates with the golden number.


#38

Quote:
P.S.: When you're done with keying in either program take the time to see how sin(666), in degrees, relates with the golden number.

It is much more interesting than just sin(666)...

The golden ratio t = -(sin(666) + cos(6·6·6))


- Pauli


#39

Quote:
The golden ratio t = -(sin(666) + cos(6·6·6))

That's a nice one, despite the dots. I was not aware of it. Just for fun, I tried (on my 12CP) a dotless variant:

-(sin(666) + cos(666))

Strangely as it may seem, it worked! :-)

Verification on the 12CP:

6 ENTER 6 yx 6 * g GTO 088 R/S 666 R/S + 5 g SQRT 1 + 2 / +    => 0.000000000

The HP-35 has some trouble to verify this (because the trigonometric functions lose accuracy as the arguments grow larger)
:

6 ENTER 6 xy 6 * COS 666 SIN + 5 SQRT 1 + 2 / +                => -1.5576 * 10-05

These relationships should be easy to prove if we remember that

     sin(18) = (sqrt(5) - 1)/4 and

and the golden ratio is

    (sqrt(5) + 1)/2

Gerson.


#40

Quote:
-(sin(666) + cos(666))

Strangely as it may seem, it worked! :-)


Very strange as the dots mean multiplication not exponentation and multiplication.

Actually it isn't that surprising, 666 is 216 modulo 360 just like 63.


- Pauli


#41

Quote:
Actually it isn't that surprising, 666 is 216 modulo 360 just like 63

I was aware of this. "Strangely" was for my lucky guessing :-)
I intended to try 6^6^6 but it was out of the allowed range.

One of these days a friend of mine showed me that relationship, somewhat amazed (he had found it on Wikipedia). It was easy to prove that was not so devilish at all, just a mathematical coincidence... But I am not sure I've been able to convince him :-)

Regards,

Gerson.


(Edited to add missing superscripts)

Edited: 19 Sept 2006, 9:05 p.m. after one or more responses were posted


#42

Quote:
It was easy to prove that was not so devilish at all, just a mathematical coincidence...

It isn't that hard to relate just about any number to 666.

A proof would run along the lines of the proof that all numbers are "interesting".


- Pauli

#43

Quote:
666 is 216 modulo 360 just like 63

and so are 666 and 666

-------

Oh, and 666666 and, of course, 666


Edited: 20 Sept 2006, 9:01 p.m.

#44

I'm sure your program is wonderful. However, after I got through keying it in, and before I could run it, I stupidly inserted a bogus line 2 in the program. Aaaggh!

I'll check it out after I get the gumption up to go and edit most of the GOTOs. The limited programmability is a great challenge for RPN wizards, as both you and Valentin have shown, but it sometimes makes it hell on us poor patzers. 8)

Regards,
Howard


Edited: 18 Sept 2006, 11:55 p.m.


#45

Quote:
The limited programmability is a great challenge for RPN wizards, as both you and Valentin have shown,

I am flattered, but the real wizard is Valentin. Fitting a fully trig solution like his in only 99 steps was quite an achievement. I am pretty sure he would come up with a shorter program for the 12C Platinum whether he followed his original approach or mine. Unfortunately he dislikes this Voyager sibling, so it's very unlikely we ever get un upgraded version of his classical Tried & Tricky Trigonometrics.

I was primarily interested in speed, so I'd gladly sacrifice a lot o program steps if that made the program run twice as fast. What I miss most on the 12C is the lack of subroutines. Also, the lack of program editing is annoying. If I didn't have a 15C as a development tool, that program would not have been written. The MOD 360 routine was first tested on my 33C.

Quote:
I'll check it out after I get the gumption up to go and edit most of the GOTOs

I think keying the program in again would be much easier :-)

Best regards,

Gerson.


#46

Quote:
I am flattered, but the real wizard is Valentin. Fitting a fully trig solution like his in only 99 steps was quite an achievement. I am pretty sure he would come up with a shorter program for the 12C Platinum whether he followed his original approach or mine. Unfortunately he dislikes this Voyager sibling, so it's very unlikely we ever get un upgraded version of his classical Tried & Tricky Trigonometrics.

I suggest you sign up for Datafile in time for the next issue. :-)

#47

Quote:
I suggest you sign up for Datafile in time for the next issue. :-)

Good news, it appears!
Thanks for your suggestion. I have already considered that. So far, I have ordered Warren Furlow's DVD with lots of past Datafile issues.

I'm looking forward for even faster and better trig solutions on the 12C Platinum. It's time the pro atack this problem :-)

#48

With the presentations on symmetrical components and per unit system, is there a way to get copies? Also, was there any discussion about 49g+ software? I work for a power company and it would be great to have some programs for my calculator.


#49

I would be glad to provide both papers and the calc programs that Jeff and I developed for them. Send me an email address and I'll get them to you.

John


#50

My email address is ewmaher@aep.com. Thanks for everything. I look forward to reading the articles and trying the programs.


#51

I sent two emails with links to click on to download the files. Please ignore the first email, sent by mistake, unless you need the HP50G user guides, manuals, and advance user guide. The second one is the one with the papers.

John


#52

John, I never received any e-mails. I think the corporate firewall may have block them. Would you please send another copy to ewmaher@netzero.net. Thanks again for everything.


#53

Sent. Let me know.

#54

What about Richard Nelson's paper? Are copies of it available anywhere?

TIA.


#55

There will be proceedings. I'll bet it will be available then. Keep an eye on http://www.holyjoe.net/hhc2006.

Regards,
Howard

#56

Door prizes included:

An HP70 in working condition (yes, one person (not me) went home with a working HP70).
An HP50g, an HP39gs, and two HP40gs calculators.
A VERY special HP50g in a 49g+ case. Unique.
Four HP48G+ calculators, a prototype HP17bII (not +), an HP33S (marketing sample).
A coupon for one of Eric Smith's new calculators when they are ready.
An HP25, HP37E, HP80, HP32E red led calculators.
Other calculators: HP49g, TI CC40 6k computer, TI89, TI81 (ha), and more.

I had counted before the door prize drawings began and there were over 40 calculators on the table.

Lots of other non-calculator prizes were there too (I went home with a book on doing magic...now I know many of those secrets!).

Where do these door prizes come from? While some books are bought by members of the conference committee, most of these goodies are brought by fellow attendees. The HP70 was brought by a first time conference attendee. :-)

Next year, there are going to be two conferences...one in London and one in San Diego.

Come and join us at one of them next year...


#57

LONDON - Count me in... :-)

#58

Howard,

I have always enjoyed the presentations AND the fellowship. Meeting old friends is very special. Sitting next to Gene was a real treat. He was instrumental in help me deal with a suspicious eBay Second Chance off that I got. Meeting new folks like yourself and David Ramsey was a real treat. Being able to sit down and have a meal with you and David (and Eric Rechlin .. aka Mr hpcalc.org) is very special. It greatly enhances the meaning of inetracting with you on this web site. In my book it's proceless.

Namir


#59

Well, the door prize Namir was able to choose is also close to priceless. :-)


#60

Yes, I'd say Namir had an "enhanced" experience this year. 8)

I enjoyed meeting you too, Namir. As interesting as the sessions were, I consider that meeting people who share my interests was the most valuable thing I took away from this year's conference. I look forward to continuing friendships that started there.

Regards,
Howard

#61

I don't want to delve too deeply into this subject, but I am intrigued and would like to solicit some ideas...

"We are NDA'd to the hilt about what Sam Kim and Cyrille de Bression told us specifically, but in general, it was extremely positive stuff. "

First, I have a question about NDA's. Would an NDA refer specifically to new technology, or could it also refer to a marketting strategy? This could tell us a lot about this statement. I think an NDA could apply to anything that the mfg. wanted it to, but if one postulates that it refers to new technology, one would assume that this would be an enhancement to the 50 line? If I assume it refers to a marketting strategy, could it be possible that a replacement 33 is in the works? Perhaps with a more traditional form factor? (hand wringing anticipation...)

Secondly, "If they can deliver on what they presented, HP will greatly please this community." Any guesses as to which community? The calculator community or the HP Museum (aka RPN) community or the scientific/hand held community? Could we see a double wide enter key once again?

Any one care to hazard some guesses? (only non-attendees need apply). While it may be argued that this dreamweaving is pointless, it is certainly fun.

My personal preference? A 33 in a 12 form factor.


#62

The NDA referred to the information conveyed by HP at the conference.


#63

If you have a secret and want to keep it, tell it on a conference! Maybe I'm nostalgic, but it seems to me there was more logic once upon a time.

How many people did participate? Assume everybody keeps his/her promises to 99% - a *very* optimistic estimate - the probability is 0.99^(number of participants) there will be no leak. Just wait :)


#64

Well, I for one hope that HP enthusiasts are a better breed.

Everyone signed the NDA who attended. If anyone spills any "beans" and it can be traced back to an individual, then that person won't be told anything should a future time occur.

Personally, I believe those present enjoy hearing things straight from HP and would have enough integrity to keep the secrets, such as they may have been.

Guess we'll see...but if a leak happens, HP will probably clam up and everyone who attends a conference in the future will be left out.


#65

Was a great meeting and was good to see Namir, Gene and Dave, who i had met two years ago. Can Ted throw a party or what? Thanks to Jeremey and Gene for the two books i chose as door prizes. Thanks also to the whole crew from Precision Survey Systems. Their DC50 is the most impressive and complete data collector/field computer that i have ever seen - and it's not even done yet.

Someone in another thread was not sure that we can look forward to new calcs that are worth buying from hp. If Sam Kim has his way (which may be different from the corporate way and the hp way) i believe that we will. He told me at lunch that his two favorite calculators are the 15 and 41. With him, and Cyrille taking care of the RPL watch, we know that at least two people at hp still get it.


#66

There are two scenarios regarding leaks, knowing I'm not going to attend those meetings ever :

1 - there are leaks, and there will be no more advance information from HP to attendees ever again

2 - no leaks, and the informations keeps on coming for the happy few (not ME)



The net result is that I get no information or limited one-time information, and the latter is no great benefit. So the obvious conclusion is that I'll get no information but some fellow HP fans will get some. MORE POWER TO THEM !

Keep secrets secrets, I'm not jealous are if some people are more happy this is good.[nl)
Note also that HP could perfectly decide to let go some information on their forthcoming products to 'freeze' buying decisions, so what we can do is ask *HP* to release information if it is a 'releasable' state.


#67

For me, the one nice thing about not having attended is that I feel completely free to speculate in my posts. If I'd attended, I wouldn't feel comfortable writing much of anything about what HP might or might not do.

I do hope that the attendees don't reveal anything that they shouldn't though, because I rather hope that I'll be able to attend another HHC sometime in the future.

Regards,
James


#68

I think the definition of NDA has gotten a little too broad with respects to this meeting. Yes, the information that HP provided about new products probably should be kept close to the vest for now. 3 to 6 months from now maybe not. In the second post in this long thread someone mention different papers that were given, discussions that were held, individual projects being worked on and shown. Surly these item do not fall under the NDA, so why can't these be discussed here or at least the papers and information posted somewhere for the 1000 or so of us that can't go to these meetings read about them.


#69

Of course the NDA doesn't cover the whole conference; presumably it would just cover a presentation by HP. Discussions of anything else would be very welcome.

I think that you can find quite a bit of information about past conferences if you look around a bit. For examples, see http://www.holyjoe.net/hhc2003/ (and 2004, 2005, and 2006), http://www.hpcc.org/conferences/, and of course http://alaska.magpage.com/~jakes/.

Regards,
James

#70

Certainly, the NDA does not apply to anything other than Sam and Cyrille's presentations...and even then, it was not like there was some super-duper calculator revealed that will solve world hunger when it is released in 3 weeks. :-)

All other materials will be freely available and should go online shortly.

If someone just can't wait :-) ask for something and I'll try to see that it is either emailed or put online for downloading. Most material is either PDF, PPT, or word docs.


#71

Quote:
If someone just can't wait :-) ask for something...

Well, I'd like to see Tim Wessman's presentation on HPGCC if that would be possible.

#72

I have just looked through the materials that were passed out by the various presenters. Unless I missed something, Tim did not have a handout or a presentation that he made available for handout. (My computer was used for most of the presenters for PowerPoint and paper display on the screen.

You have two options on this as I see it:

1. Contact Tim directly to see what he might have that he can send you. He did show several examples including some source code; however, he did not pass them out.

2. Wait until Jake Schwartz gets the conference video edited and get a copy of it from him. I believe there is a small charge for the video (DVDs) to cover the cost of materials and some of Jake's editing time. I believe that he is always very reasonable.

John


#73

I just thought that if Tim's presentation was available as a powerpoint or pdf or something simlar, I'd like to see it. I'll wait for the official conference materials, plus I think that Tim is working on an HPGCC manual or tutorial or something anyway.

#74

Quote:
3 to 6 months from now maybe not.

The duration of the NDA we signed is three years. If information becomes publicly available from another source (e.g., an HP product introduction or press release), then that portion of the information is no longer covered by the NDA. But we can't just start disregarding the NDA in 3 to 6 months.

Only the material presented by HP is under the NDA. Projects worked on by other parties are not covered, and can certainly be discussed here.

#75

Quote:
Would an NDA refer specifically to new technology, or could it also refer to a marketting strategy?

The NDA probably referred specifically to new technologies, marketing strategies, plus a bunch of other specific things, plus anything and everything else presented by hp at the conference session covered by the NDA.

Quote:
Any guesses as to which community?

Well, Howard presented the information here, so let's presume that he meant at least the MoHPC Forum community. I'm sure many members of that community would consider themselves members of the others you mentioned, which of course have a lot of overlap. So, no telling.
Quote:
Any one care to hazard some guesses?

Sure, what the heck:

  • no 33 in a voyager form factor
  • no double-wide ENTER key (on any new models, see below)
  • there will be a redesigned 33S, restyled to eliminate the chevron, and with a few functional enhancements
  • probably no 43S or some other successor to the 42S
  • last, but not least, there will be an HP15C 25th Anniversary Edition released on or about July 1, 2007. (This will of course have a classic ENTER key, although in the case of voyager models, it is double-tall, not double-wide.)
OK, the above is more of a wish list than speculation of what I think might happen. (I do of course wish for a classic ENTER key and a 43S or similar, I just really don’t think they have much chance at seeing the light of day.) And for the record, I did not attend HHC2006 and have absolutely no insider knowledge of what hp may or may not do.

#76

The thing to bear in mind when speculating about HP's future product plans is that they will do what they think will maximize their sales. So whether we will get any specific feature depends on how much they think it will affect sales. They are concerned with pleasing "us" to the extent that it improves overall sales. They're not going to go out of their way to do something that "we" want unless they think it is a good idea overall. So if you want to convince HP to do something, don't tell them that it would make "us" buy the calculator. Convince them that it will make lots of other people buy it.

One aspect of this is considering how a feature will affect first-time sales, vs. repeat business. First-time buyers probably wouldn't recognize the value of some features or design issues that a repeat buyer would. But we don't know what percentage of sales are first-time vs. repeat. HP undoubtedly has some estimates that they use as part of the planning process.

However, there is undoubtedly some influence of word-of-mouth on even first-time buyers.

Without commenting on any specific features (since I'm under NDA), I'd suggest that the features that "we" want may or may not be the features that HP expects would sell. However, it does seem that HP now recognizes that in general many of the basic things that "we" want are actually good ideas (especially since some or many of them are things HP actually did back in the "good old days"), and that it is well worth their time considering using those ideas.


#77

Eric,

So would you be able, to supply a "For Input Only" HP calculator division mail-address, where we could present our ideas to?

Best regards,

Peter A. Gebhardt


#78

I don't know of a suitable postal or email address.

I suspect that HP employees read this forum. It is well known that at least one HP employee reads the comp.sys.hp48 newsgroup.

#79

Quote:
I'm sure I've left out something important. Please forgive my feeble memory if so. Fortunately, the "many eyeballs" phenomenon should help correct any omissions or errors on my part.

You forgot the demonstration of how not to bid for an HP-65 on eBay. ;-)

The SLAC tour was also excellent. Thanks to Jeremy for organising that.


#80

I expected it from somebody, but I thought you were my friend, Bruce. <G>

John


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