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15C performance question



#2

I am trying to duplicate the 15C performance results posted here: http://www.technicalc.org/tiplist/en/files/pdf/tips/tip6_50.pdf.

This paper reports the savage benchmark completing in 45min on a 15C. I have written multiple programs and cannot get better than 95 minutes. I timed just the loop and get 13min, leaving 82 minutes for the actually benchmark workload.

So which is it?

1. The paper is wrong.
2. The 15C gets slower with age.
3. HP released two 15Cs. The 2nd with a 2x bump in speed.

Thanks.


#3

There are a lot of "accelerated" Voyagers out there. When I was in college, the college bookstore (which also sold HP calculators) would perform the speed-doubling operation for some modest fee -- $40 or so. Given that standard Voyagers are rather slow, I'm sure this type of surgery must have been pretty popular.


It's possible that whoever wrote that paper used an accelerated 15C without realizing it, or maybe they just forgot.

- Thomas

#4

Quote:

This paper reports the savage benchmark completing in 45min on a 15C. I have written multiple programs and cannot get better than 95 minutes. I timed just the loop and get 13min, leaving 82 minutes for the actually benchmark workload.

So which is it?

1. The paper is wrong.
2. The 15C gets slower with age.
3. HP released two 15Cs. The 2nd with a 2x bump in speed.

Thanks.


Looking at the results posted for the 15c and 41 I wonder if the tester just gave up after 45 minutes and didn't record the actual time. If you post your code I'll try it on my 15c to see if I can validate your results.

John

#5

Though Thomas Okken has already answered your question, I thought you'd like to know how they managed to speed them up:

http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/archv015.cgi?read=78272

I sped up a 15C once but I undid the modification before selling it because the batteries would drain up too fast (a week or so under normal use), but I think that was because I may have used a low-resistance inductor.

Gerson

#6

Quote:
I am trying to duplicate the 15C performance results posted here: http://www.technicalc.org/tiplist/en/files/pdf/tips/tip6_50.pdf.

This paper reports the savage benchmark completing in 45min on a 15C. I have written multiple programs and cannot get better than 95 minutes. I timed just the loop and get 13min, leaving 82 minutes for the actually benchmark workload.

So which is it?

1. The paper is wrong.
2. The 15C gets slower with age.
3. HP released two 15Cs. The 2nd with a 2x bump in speed.

Thanks.


There is, of course, the 4th possibility you failed to mention; that your HP15C programming still needs work. :-)

There was an article in Datafile, Vol 8, No. 1, page 12, by Wlodek discussing the Savage benchmark as run on numerous calculators. The time he got for the HP41 was ~45 minutes, which I would think should be just about the same as the HP15C. He didn't say that any of the calcs had been sped up, so I think the times he gave are for unmodified calcs.


#7

Quote:
There is, of course, the 4th possibility you failed to mention; that your HP15C programming still needs work. :-)

...


Actually that was the first thing I considered. I saw no way to optimize X^2 SQRT LN E^X ATAN TAN 1 +. So I removed that from my program and just tested the loop and then subtracted that time from the total time to get the time spent doing X^2 SQRT LN E^X ATAN TAN 1 +. This was the only way I could profile the code. I also did this to see if loop unrolling would help performance. To save time I used a smaller N.

Anecdotally I did identify a slightly faster way to loop compared to DSE (about 90 sec faster for N = 2499). However the DSE code is cleaner and does not require foreknowledge of the final result.

#8

I looked further in Datafile and found that in Vol. 8, No. 8, page 25, Wlodek listed the programs he used to run the Savage benchmark in the HP67, HP41, HP32S and HP20S. The HP32S program looks like it might be closest to the HP15C. Here it is:

A01 LBL A
A02 2499
A03 STO A
A04 RAD
A05 1
A06 STO B
B01 LBL B
B02 X^2
B03 SQRT
B04 LN
B05 E^X
B06 ATAN
B07 TAN
B08 RCL+ B
B09 DSE A
B10 GTO B
B11 RTN

#9

I did the test on my 33S and I got a dismal result: roughly 16min !!

This is twice slower than the 32SII. What a surprise !

Could somebody with a 33S redo the test so make sure I didn't miss something.
By the way my calc is ref CNA4260xxxx and displayed low battery.


#10

Hi Bruno. I clocked 7 m 35 s on my 33s (s/n 541...). I experienced a similar problem with slowdown while getting a flashing battery symbol on a 33s last December. A change of batteries solved the problem. See my post at:

http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/archv015.cgi?read=84206#84206

Regards,

John


#11

Thanks a lot. I feel relieved.

My batteries have been depleted in 2 months of very light usage.
I'll buy new ones to restore full performance.

I feel already somewhat frustrated with the old keyboard, small decimal sparator and old display. Halved performance would make no good.

#12

Quote:
I looked further in Datafile and found that in Vol. 8, No. 8, page 25, Wlodek listed the programs he used to run the Savage benchmark in the HP67, HP41, HP32S and HP20S. The HP32S program looks like it might be closest to the HP15C. Here it is:

A01 LBL A
A02 2499
A03 STO A
A04 RAD
A05 1
A06 STO B
B01 LBL B
B02 X^2
B03 SQRT
B04 LN
B05 E^X
B06 ATAN
B07 TAN
B08 RCL+ B
B09 DSE A
B10 GTO B
B11 RTN

That is almost identical to what I came up with. Here is my 15C code:

LBL B
2
4
9
9
STO I
1
LBL 0
X^2
SQRT
LN
E^X
ATAN
TAN
1
+
DSE I
GTO 0
RTN

#13

FWIW, I let Egan's code run for 1 minute on my unmodified 15C, and it completed 23 iterations in that time, which leads to a rough estimate of over 100 minutes for the total benchmark.

- Thomas


#14

22 iterations in 1 minute on an "untouched" 2723A build.

cheers,
hans

#15

Using your program on my sped-up (2.4 times, about) HP15C, I got 61 interations in 1 minute.

Then I modified the program to unroll the loop, a technique that is good to use when you're trying to squeeze that last bit of speed out of a program; like this:

LBL B
8
3
3
STO I
1
LBL 0
X^2
SQRT
LN
E^X
ATAN
TAN
1
+
X^2
SQRT
LN
E^X
ATAN
TAN
1
+
X^2
SQRT
LN
E^X
ATAN
TAN
1
+
DSE I
GTO 0
RTN

With this program, I got 67 (iterations*3) in 1 minute. I'm forced to conclude that the timing for the HP15C given in the list you referenced must have been for a sped-up HP15C.


#16

Quote:
Using your program on my sped-up (2.4 times, about) HP15C, I got 61 interations in 1 minute.

Then I modified the program to unroll the loop, a technique that is good to use when you're trying to squeeze that last bit of speed out of a program; like this:

...

With this program, I got 67 (iterations*3) in 1 minute. I'm forced to conclude that the timing for the HP15C given in the list you referenced must have been for a sped-up HP15C.


Excellent, mystery solved.

A lot has to be said about a 20+ year old device with such a strong community that can rally together to solve a minor mystery in less than 24 hours.

#17

Egan, I clocked your code at around 110 minutes on my unaltered 15c (s/n 2533...). I looked away and missed the exact time.

Since running the test the low battery "snowflake" won't go away. I purchased the 15c in May 1987 and haven't changed the batteries yet. I guess it is time.

Regards,

John


#18

Quote:
Egan, I clocked your code at around 110 minutes on my unaltered 15c (s/n 2533...). I looked away and missed the exact time.

Since running the test the low battery "snowflake" won't go away. I purchased the 15c in May 1987 and haven't changed the batteries yet. I guess it is time.


Same here. Orginal batteries since 1985. I tried moving them around a bit, flake returned after about 5 minutes of heavy use. I ran benchmark after replacing batteries.


#19

Quote:

Same here. Orginal batteries since 1985. I tried moving them around a bit, flake returned after about 5 minutes of heavy use. I ran benchmark after replacing batteries.


Egan, I was able to move my batteries around once to get the snowflake to disappear and got an extra year of use as a result.

I measured the voltages of my old batteries (Energizer EXP76)at: 1.12, 1.14 and 1.15. Not bad for 19 year old 1.5 v batteries. Also, there is no sign of leakage.

The only replacement battery that I could find I found at the local hardware store was Duracell (p/n 76s) 1.5 v silver oxide. They were a bit pricey at $4.00 each. I assume that these are suitable but are they the best for the application? What are others using?

After putting the new batteries in I re-ran your code and again clocked 110 min. I wanted to make sure that the 15c doesn't suffer from the low voltage battery slowdown that we're seeing with the 33s and of course it didn't.

Regards,

John


#20

Quote:
The only replacement battery that I could find I found at the local hardware store was Duracell (p/n 76s) 1.5 v silver oxide. They were a bit pricey at $4.00 each. I assume that these are suitable but are they the best for the application? What are others using?

I am using Eveready 357 Silver Oxide. Got a 3 pack for about $7US at Walgreens.

Quote:
After putting the new batteries in I re-ran your code and again clocked 110 min. I wanted to make sure that the 15c doesn't suffer from the low voltage battery slowdown that we're seeing with the 33s and of course it didn't.

Odd, I get 96 min. Nonpareil on any platform gets ~93 min.


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