HP Calc. Promo



#27

Hello,
I work on advertising for HP and we are currently in the process of preparing for the 25th anniversary of the 12C calculator model-HP's longest and best-selling calculator.
So I have two questions for all of you:

1) What do you do for a living and for what purpose do you use your calculators?
2) What sort of promotion would you like to see involving the 12c model?

thank you,
Mary


#28

I'd love to see a 12c with a 15c logo and layout. Toss in the functionality of the 15c and I will buy 3 NOW! Should be easy as the 12c and 15c are basically the same unit. GO FOR IT!!! And call it a 25 year aniversary model! I suspect I won't be the only one suggesting this.


#29

For me a 12C with a flashable firmware would be fine. By definition a HP user is a smart guy, so it won't take long until 15c functionality is available.

#30

And I suspect I won't be the last one to emphatically ditto Ron's plea for a reissue of the 15C. Only, give it more RAM.

Oh, and I'd "only" buy two. 8) (Smiley, but that's no joke.)


Edited: 24 Aug 2005, 4:28 p.m.

#31

I would just like to say. . .

Bring Back the

Chris W.

#32

I am an electronics engineer in the telecomms industry.

I use a 12C and an 11C.

Although the internal technology available for calculators has progressed enormously, the ergonomic design has not.

I think a new Voyager calculator with the functionality of the 15C and 11C, much bigger memory, clear dot matrix display and a USB2 mini interface would be perfect. BUT please keep the ergomomics of the original Voyagers, meaning the lovely feel, looks and tactile keys; the 12c platinum was a brave attemp but suffers from loss of clarity, cheaper looks, slightly rattly keys, less clear display and software bugs!!

So have another go at it after trying out the original 12C and 15C yourself.

#33

This is the MoHPC FORUM -- where curmudgeonly old calculator users gather to reminisce and sing praises of calculator models no longer manufactured, and of days long gone. ;^)

I suspect you're not asking about a new piece of engineering so much as ideas for using the advertising budget to leverage the successes of previous engineering efforts into increased sales of current models. (If I may, "the shoulders of giants as meal ticket", so to speak.) Right?

I'm a programmer, and use calculators to remember the good old days.

I suggest you craft an advertising campaign centered on a not-altogether-specious claim that the 12C was "the original PDA" or some such. You'll be able to utilize contemporary jargon to tie a widely-used piece of current technology back to a 25-year-old design. And offer the 12CP through Sharper Image and in the airlines' seat-back catalogs. Maybe you'll see enough of a bump in nostalgia-induced sales to make it all worthwhile.

Good luck!


#34

Hsst. Don't disabuse her.. maybe we'll get a new 15C between now and the next rotation around the galactic core.

Edited: 24 Aug 2005, 6:58 p.m.

#35

I don't really like the 12c. I love the 11c and 15c. I am a designer and engineer. I still use htese old machines. The 11c is very handy for repetitive little things--make a little routine and put it in USER mode and you can do one-button functions for special functions that you describe....


Why don't I like the 12c? Because I started on an 11c! The 12c has no backspace--only a clear x. How ridiculous! Its programming is even more stupid. It was OK in 1982 when RAM was expensive and the GUI was only an experiment at Xerox.

The 12c platinum did not improve these two critcally important basic elements. So why buy it?

The 17bii is so much more powerful and useful than the 12c--if you have never used a 12c. the 12c must have been good enough for the finance guys, though!

#36

If HP released any calculator that looked and felt as nice as the 12c, regardless of the niche it was for, everyone here would be happy. Any advertising for the 12c should be in the same spirit as the calculator itself: getting the job done right the first time.

P.S. I'm a student, and I'm frustrated by the fact that the 12c is worthless for physics homework.


#37

The 12C is a FINANCIAL calculator!


Quote:
P.S. I'm a student, and I'm frustrated by the fact that the 12c is worthless for physics homework.


#38

That's not so absurd. Guest might be, for instance, a business School student who bought an HP-12C because was told it was one of the best financial calculators around. Probably it is, but unfortunately it lacks some basic scientific functions a Business student may need in the first college year. That is why I think a new 12C should include a basic set of scientific functions, not because they have real business application but because they may occasionally be needed. Some engineers, we have examples here, use a 12C and have to switch to a scientific calculator whenever a simple calculation involving trigometry is needed.
By the time the HP-12C was released, it made a lot of sense not including scientific functions in the 12C because memory was very expensive back then. All available memory space had to be reserved for the new advanced financial functions. All is needed today are a few extra bytes of ROM and a little R&D, both not expensive.


#39

Gene here:

Apparently, Texas Instruments and even Casio agree that financial calculators should have basic scientific functions built in. Consider these models which are about $30 here in the US:

TI BAII Plus: Trig functions in radians/degrees, hyperbolic trig functions!, random number generator!, combinations and permutations built-in, ability to set algebraic hierarchy (1+2x3=7).

Casio FC-200V: Trig functions in radians/degrees, hyperbolic trig functions!, combinations and permutations built-in, ability to set algebraic hierarchy (1+2x3=7).

All for $30.

Sadly, this is why the university at which I teach has adopted the TI BAII Plus as the calculator for all business students. :-(

Gene
===========================================

Message #12 Posted by Gerson W. Barbosa on 24 Aug 2005, 9:43 p.m.,
in response to message #11 by Volguus Zildrohar
That's not so absurd. Guest might be, for instance, a business School student who bought an HP-12C because was told it was one of the best financial calculators around. Probably it is, but unfortunately it lacks some basic scientific functions a Business student may need in the first college year. That is why I think a new 12C should include a basic set of scientific functions, not because they have real business application but because they may occasionally be needed. Some engineers, we have examples here, use a 12C and have to switch to a scientific calculator whenever a simple calculation involving trigometry is needed. By the time the HP-12C was released, it made a lot of sense not including scientific functions in the 12C because memory was very expensive back then. All available memory space had to be reserved for the new advanced financial functions. All is needed today are a few extra bytes of ROM and a little R&D, both not expensive.


#40

Quote:
Sadly, this is why the university at which I teach has adopted the TI BAII Plus as the calculator for all business students. :-(


That's the point! And once they get used to TI, why should they switch to HP?

Apparently HP is not worried in losing the calculator segment market share. Or they just prefer the much more profitable ink cartridge market: here three 57 cost the same as a 12C Platinum (about USD 160.00)!

Regards,

Gerson

(saving to buy a 56 and a 57 next month :-).

#41

Quote:
I'm a student, and I'm frustrated by the fact that the 12c is worthless for physics homework.

If trigs are all you need, take a look at:

http://membres.lycos.fr/albillo/calc/pdf/DatafileVA003.pdf

or check the Articles Forum.

Edited: 24 Aug 2005, 9:55 p.m.

#42

Hi,


I'm a financial director.

Why won't you make a 17C, likewise the 27 and 27S that were swiss knife do-it-all calculators, with the specs of a 12C and a 11C for example (or 15C if possible ?)

Or you could offer one spcial dedicated 25th anniversary 12C to any individual proving he owns 10+ HP calcs...

Well...I'm sure these are not feasible... The platinum is already an improvemnt on itself. Waht can you add more ? If you really want to wow this community, at least make sure it's qualitatively equivalent to the older 12C's !

Thanks

#43

I'm a business+technical consultant, an employee of a large company. I rarely use a calculator now, but have been a moderate user in the past. Typically, my business-calculation problems are better served by using spreadsheets. I have in the past used the -12C and other financial calculators when making mortgage comparisons.

For many years, people bought the -12C because it was the best tool out there, and they saw it being used by those whose judgment they valued. At the time, HP calculators had a reputation, deserved, of being better built, easier to use, and featureful. A "promotion" does not change the equation any - to succeed, you must still have the same attributes, or perhaps lead people to believe you do. 25 years is remarkably long to live on the reputation of a technology product.

I suspect many here would agree that the -12C (current incarnation) no longer excels in build-quality, ease-of-use, and features. You have other models that compete in some ways, and overall quality has dropped in comparison to that of other companies.

How about building a calculator for the next 25 years, one that honors what the -12C offered for so long? Give us something to be proud of today. Heck, even just update the current model, with a return to the tip-top quality keyboard and add a backlit display. But HP can do better. And HP hasn't lost the business market the way it lost the education market. Consider addressing the business calculator market in an innovative way, such as making the pocket calculator a true extension of other devices, via downloading or networking.

Perhaps, though, dedicated calculators are a dead end. Perhaps the fitting tribute to the -12C is an HP-branded emulator running on Windows desktops and hand-held PDAs. *sigh*

#44

I am a retired aerospace engineer. I collect old hand-held calculators including business-oriented models. My collection includes several HP-80's, an HP-22, an HP-38C, several HP-12C's, several HP-10B's and an HP-17BII.

Suggestions:

1. Issue a commemorative model with an added logo mentioning the 25th anniversary. An example from my collection is an HP-28S with an added logo commemorating "100 Years American Mathematics 1888-1988". You will sell some of these to collectors.

2. Search for the oldest (i.e., the earliest serial numbers) HP-12C's still in use. Publish anecdotes concerning these oldest devices in advertisements.

3. Search for user programs and tips for the HP-12C. You will find some programs here in the Forum. Publish a collection of the best programs in a companion book to the manual. An example of such a book which sold well is the "HP-15C Advanced Functions Handbook."

4. Publish a commemorative issue of the HP-12C User's Manual.


#45

It would be nice to read the story of users of the 12C.
An anniversary model of the 12C (NOT the 12CP), better built (say a price target around twice the current price for the stock 12C).
Also, you could reissue some of the original documentation or ardvertising material, stressing what has changed or, more interesting, what has not.
How about an offer to repair old machines gone bad ?
Of course a reissue of the 15C would be the best news for HP zealots out there...

#46

I suppose the HP-12C was so successful because only few tried to program on it and the vast majority just used it as 4-banger. An anniversary gadget I'd like would be a calculating World Band Receiver Travel Clock Radio, or a portable 20GB USB-disk (40?...60Gig??), or a full featured PODcast device. What about all in one? Of cause in the case of the 12C (Gold! -- not Platinum) and the functionality of a 11C or 10C. (Who realy needs a 15C today, sorry!)

Ciao.....Mike


#47

Considering that the cost of manufacturing any unit besides the Hp12c will be a fixed cost, why make anything less?

ie You need a car, and a ford pinto and a Porche are both a $1000 dollars, your going to buy a ford pinto?

The basic Hp15c has matrix features, a solver and a built in numerical integration feature, all of which are absent on the Hp11c. As an EE, I have used all of the above and wouldn't bother to buy if it had less (oh, ok, I would buy ONE).

I like the idea of just a Flashable ROM as noted by Klaus, more RAM (2-8K or hell, 32K) and a USB port to upgrade the ROM. That would allow us to customize it to any use. Want an old 15c, dump a 15c emulator into it. Want more (or less), modify to suit as it would be flexible enough to do what you wanted. Release an SDK to modify as you need. No, it still couldn't compete with an Hp41 but it may just be more functional than an Hp42s if given an I/O port (I didn't say better, as it wouldn't have a menu system if it were given an Hp12c LCD or keyboard layout).

#48

Hello Mary,

may I add the suggestion not to forget the German market. I haven't seen any HP calculator advertising in Germany for years! Go to a big city and try to buy an HP calculator somewhere: It will at least be difficult. Only some Online-Shops may still have them.

So in my opinion a 25th anniversary campaign should include:
- the comeback of the proverbial HP-Quality of the 70's and 80's
- something like the HP-67/97/41-Users-Library-Europe
- Availability of the calculators at local HP-Dealers
- not only the 12c but all the other calculators HP has at the moment
- a special give-away-offer: e.g. "Buy a 12c now and get xx free". xx could be e.g. a booklet "The history of HP calculators" or a 2006-HP-Calculator-calendar
- the comeback of a monthly periodical like e.g. "HP Journal"
- a the "Design-that-calculator"-Contest-Offer here in Germany, too, and please not only for highschool-/unversity-Students but for all

I love the idea of an anniversary campaign and appreciate it very much that HP want to take the opportunity to do it. Maybe you can initiate similar campaigns for other models (especially my favourite 41C/CV/CX with the Interface-Loop). This would give HP the chance to get back to #1-Calculator-Manufacturer-Status like in the good old days and to resurrect the loyal fan base it once had.

And, as I said at the beginning: Don't forget the German market!

I'm an HP-User since 1976 working in the software-technical consultants business and still use one of my HP's nearly every day. If you have any questions or if I can be of help please don't hesitate to contact me.

#49

Mary,

Although I'm an active member of this forum and a collector of old calculators, including all of HP's -- in real life I'm a computer consultant working with wall street firms.

What I see at virtually all my clients is that each person is given an HP 12C on the day that they start work. It's a standard desk accessory and as indispensable as the stapler, tape dispenser and pen. I've tried to introduce the 17BII to them and other models over the years but they don't like it. They use almost all of the built-in functions on the 12C and typically put in a small program that helps in whatever their primary job function is (e.g., "linking" -- i.e., compounding interest rates).

These are no doubt your core clientele for the 12C and the reason why you're still making it. Frankly I don't think that any sort of promotion will make much difference to them, they just like it as is. They didn't buy the HP 12c platinum even though I thought the flashiness of it would appeal to them.

As for me personally, I'm with many of the other people here and would love to see more scientific functionality and programmability on a 25 year anniversary edition. Although I sometimes use a 12C (so that I can match what my clients are doing) I more often use a 32SII (I like the programming on it).

Thanks for asking,

Katie


#50

On the technical side I think it would be a good idea to make a calculator with FLASH ROM, a programming port, and interchangable keyboard overlay. This would allow one model to take the place of what used to be several models simply by loading an appropriate operating system.

On the promotional side, HP needs to get back into the stores. It's difficult to even find an HP these days. It looks like TI has taken over, not so much through TI's efforts, as because of HP appearing to have abandoned the market.

Additional how to manuals would be a good promotional idea. There used to be a number of these for the 28 and 48 series, some of the ones for the 28 series were published by HP. For a promotion, offer these as an extra in the package, or as a form of rebate.

A 25th anniversery logo on the calculator might help, can't hurt.

#51

How about making that nice leather case with the fold over flap that HP used to make back in 80's for the 10c series calculators. I really like that case and would love to buy one new for my 12C and 15Cs.

Chris W

#52

Hi Mary, I sure hope you are for real.

1) What do you do for a living and for what purpose do you use your calculators

Alas, I used my HP’s a lot in college and sporadically in my career, but am probably best labeled ‘a collector’ today. I’m hoping that collectors are at least in some small part of your target market for an anniversary model.

2) What sort of promotion would you like to see involving the 12c model

Most of my suggestions have already been stated by others, but…

  • I think it would be interesting to find some of the most significant decisions made with a 12c and the people whom made them. I suspect many important decisions were made by well recognized people on the 12c. I’ll bet many ‘famous’ people carry one with them always.
  • I would like to see the anniversary model at least cosmetically resemble the original with a special logo like other limited edition models. The additional logo should be something more substantial then additional silk screened art. (Yes, I too would love for the old build quality components and could enjoy some of the enhancement mentioned by others, but I think that may be out side the scope of your request)
  • I really like Chris Woodhouse’s idea of a nice leather case. It would be really nice if it were available separately and should have the HP logo on it.

Personally I like the idea of honoring the simple, powerful, and elegant solution the original design offered. I really appreciate you asking this community, and that HP would choose to commemorate this calculator.


#53

Quote:
  • I really like Chris Woodhouse’s idea of a nice leather case. It would be really nice if it were available separately and should have the HP logo on it.

Yes, this could be a good test for HP as to the size of the potential market we collectors represent! If it were nice enough, I would probably buy three; one for each Voyager calc I own.


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