HP67



#24

Please, see this auction of our good Matthias

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5769962092

and considering all the other HP's calculators auctions like this, tell me if you think that the battery pack and the battery cover are included or not.

I think that they are included because normally they are parts of a full unit with the calculator itself.

Indeed in two auctions where they are excluded (5769612793 and 5768453216), the seller has openly told it.

Am I wrong?

Claudio

(remove the double "_NOSPAM_" from my email address)


#25

Claudio,

If you are asking the opinion of people here, I'll put mine in. After reading the description in the e-bay auction, there is no mention whatsoever about the inclusion or exclusion of certain components. In my opinion, it would be reasonable to assume that all the components of the calculator (with the possible exception of the manual) are included. I would expect to receive a battery pack, and, more importantly, the battery cover. A pack can be easily found and are often in need of repair in a calculator this old. But the battery cover is a much harder part to find.

Is there an implication in your question?

Dave

#26

Claudio,

Ebay says that the delivered unit has to be described clearly. As I listed all parts in the auction text and also documented them all in the photo, I think this is clear enough. When you see a pioneer serie calculator that uses CL44 cells and they are not listed in the auction text, do you think they are included? If so, I would have to cancel a lot of auctions, where I bought the calculator without batteries).
If you do not want this calculator anymore, I accept a cancel this deal, although I do not think I made a mistake (on my website the HP-67A was also listed without battery pac and cover).

Your good Matthias


#27

Hi again Matthias, I'm only trying to understand if I have done a mistake of interpretation of your auction, or else if anyone that read your auction understand (like me) that battery and battery cover are included (like Dave too).

I understand that if you are used to hold apart your numerous calculators and battery packs (for maintenance reasons), you can think them like separate items, but in all other eBay's auctions, calculators and their battery packs and covers are single items.

You are right about external items, like manuals, charger, ecc. If they aren't specified, then they aren't included.

But I think that all items within a calculator are parts (and then included) of the calculator!

And battery pack and battery cover are for sure within a calculator!!

Answer for Dave: ..... I'm maccloder! ;-)

Claudio


#28

Hi Claudio

I can accept you point of view and I do not take it personally. For me a battery pack is an external item, because you buy it separatly (or it has a own HP number).

As I told you, I accept, if you want to cancel this deal, as I want to satisfiy all my customers. Just start the annulation on ebay. I think, this is a fair offer, isn´t it?

By the way: Please have a look at the prices of the other auctions. What do you think: Why are they all higher than mine, although I´m a wellknown collector with a lot of positive feedbacks? Maybe they thought, shipping would be too expensive, but maybe they also thought that battery pack and cover are not included.


#29

The item-description reads:

"The calculator is in very good and working condition"

If I weren't a collector, how I could then ever test the unit after shipping?

Each auction is singular. So there it is not necessary to compare with the other prices!

I am on Claudios way...

John


#30

If each auction is singular, then you also can not compare delivery accessories...

Also to you: I accept your point of view and accept a canceled deal.

Matthias

#31

Oh come on... Every part of the HP67 has its own HP part number. The chips do, the PCBs do (probably both for the bare board and a populated one). The keys all have part numbers, etc

Are you going to claim that a 67 without a '0' key, or without one of the ROM chips is complete? If I was buying a 67, I would certainly expect those to be included.

And for the same reason I'd expect the battery pack and cover to be included.


#32

As I said, I accept to cancel this deal. Maybe I take part on this dispute if the picture and the text do not list all delivered parts. But is would have been also the buyers posibility to contact me as he didn´t see a battery pack in the picture.
By the way, I got 3 mails from other interested people... AS you see, for me it is no problem to cancel this deal.

Matthias


#33

Hi everyone.

Matthias, I think that we can continue our chat via email.

As I have said before, this thread is useful for me to understand if I have done a mistake interpreting your auction.

From the replies of our friends I understand that I haven't done any mistake for sure ;-)

I know that you are a honest guy, so I have no doubt that we can find an agreement, even if the cancel of the deal is only my LAST chance.

I hope that you have a battery pack/cover in some box. ;-)


Cheers

Claudio


#34

Hi all:

Just to give more points of view to the discussion, I'll add mine since I bidded for that calculator (oronet_commander). As I read the auction offer (and I do read a lot of them!):

1. Battery pack was NOT included
2. If as "cover" you mean the leather case, I understood it was NOT included; if you mean the battery compartment door, of course I understood it WAS included.

I think the auction ended very cheap for Claudio. If he backs up and gets a refund, Mathias will get a good price for the calc if he sells it again. In fact, Mathias, if you get your calc back and the 100$ max I could pay for it is ok for you, feel free to get in touch with me (rcanet at ivia.es), although I'm sure you'd get more relisting it at eBay.

Just my two euro-cents.


#35

Well, I sent a mail to Matthias too as I´m also interested in that unit. But for that price I doubt, we have a chance...

#36

Quote:
For me a battery pack is an external item, because you buy it separatly (or it has a own HP number).

Battery pack for HP-67 an external item?!? What a nonsense! I am sure that both battery pack and cover were included with the calculator when I bought my HP-67 long time ago!

Obviously, this is just another atempt to sell crappy items on eBay for a lot of money.

#37

This is the way I wish all auctions would be listed.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=58039&item=5770500937&rd=1

#38

I'd say that the battery pack and cover are integral parts of the calculator. I would assume that they were included unless the listing said otherwise.


#39

Hi,

although the battery pack is an internal item,

it ought to be clear to everyone

here that the battery pack is

the first thing you throw away,

because it's usually the first

thing which fails.

What could be possibly expected to get

with the calc is the battery plastic frame,

as the cells are usually flat due to their age.

The batteries are user replaceable parts,

and should be seen as this.

What could always be expected to be included

is the battery door, unless specified otherwise.

Raymond


#40

I concur with Raymond in every respect.

Except that it is best to do "full disclosure" so as to say "the battery cells are flat and so I will include only the frame" etc, or "battery and frame as original HP included but note that the cells are dead and will need replacing" etc

I try very hard on my auctions to spell it all out. It is a matter of conscience and smooth dealing.

I think highly of Matthias but I think he is getting to much "inside" rather than thinking about it as a buyer--which is what a good seller should do. Always full disclosure.

The idea that "on Pioneer with LR44 etc " is rationalization....most buyers are not "serious collectors" and there is no set "standard" by which to judge such things, so again:

full disclosure is the only good way--then you don't leave Claudio and other good souls in a difficult position.

Let me note that this is not to be a condemnation of Matthias--he is a very successful ebayer and has 100% feedback for a reason--he makes sure to clear it up one way or another----

I am more speaking in the general about what I have found to be most effective for a good auction.

Best regards,

Bill


Edited: 2 May 2005, 10:27 a.m.


#41

Hi Bill & Co,

Thanks for your statements, no mather on which side you are. Claudio and me will continue by email. Maybe we will post last words how we fixed the deal.
I do not take this dispute as a condemnation, but as a misclasification of my auction, that´s why I also offered to cancel the deal.

Matthias


#42

I feel you owe him a battery door, not a canceled auction.
Auction was for a working calculator and no mention of a bare calculator only without door or batteries.

But that is just my nosy opinion.


#43

Amen

#44

I strongly agree with you!! (obviously) ;-)

#45

Claudio,

my eBay experience is that it is always a good idea to contact the seller if you are interested in an item. On the one hand, you will get a first impression if the seller is an honest guy, and on the other hand, you can clarify scope of delivery, shipping costs etc.

I'm sure it was not a fraudulent intent of Matthias, just a slightly different view, probably based on his own eBay experience.

Ciao, Jürgen

#46

It seems to me that Matthias (who is by the way a reputated honest trader) should have mentionned the fact that the battery door and battery pack were missing. At least I would have done so.

The fact is that Matthias acknowledged his lack of completeness in his description and that he even offered the decent solution, which is to cancel the sale, any other solution that would suit both parties being of course negotiable.

Ebay sales being a recurrent hot topic, I'm of the opinion that such discussion should not appear here but by direct communication between the parties.

My 2c.


#47

I can not agree to this, sorry Thibaut. I think, other users/collectors/programmes should always be informed about disputes on ebay. The feedbacks on ebay I can not trust, because you always risk getting a negative one when you send a negative, so you probably better do not leave feedback. Ebay feedbacks are shiny, but not 100% representative.

I remember very well getting into troubles with a seller myself last year. The community helped a lot with their postings. Now I´m the seller and I way "attacked". This is the buyers right. I do not take this for personal as you see, but as a information for you.

Matthias

#48

Hi again, since I have started this thread and since this is become (against my will) like a "judgment" about me and Matthias, I want to update you with our final decision (and if Matthias will want, he will be able to confirm or to add any other thing he wants).


Since Matthias have refused to send me the battery cover and the battery plastic frame (because he say that he haven't these items) and since he wanted more money to try to find them, I have been forced to accept the cancellation of the auction. :-((

Moreover we agree to don't leave any eBay's feedback.


However I can survive without this HP67, even if to have a hp67 it has been a dream for me since from when I was much younger than now.

So now I can't say that the problem is solved very well from my point of view, but however I didn't want to punish Matthias for our misunderstanding, so now I'm not angry. :-)


I want to thanks everyone for your help and for your opinions.


Best greetings from Italy

Claudio


(remove the double "_NOSPAM_" from my email address)


#49

Just keep checking eBay every once in a while -- once a week or so -- and sooner or later you'll get lucky. Fortunately, the 67 is not rare, and they are not very expensive.

For me, the HP-67 was also something that I wanted to own very much back in the late 70s. When I wanted to get something more powerful than my 19C, the 67 seemed just right, but it was way to expensive for me, and when the 41C came out, that was what I ended up buying instead.

Many years later I remembered the 67 that I never got, I started looking on eBay, and got lucky after about 3 weeks.

$170+ and I still haven't even turned it on yet (need to rebuild the battery pack first) but it is a thrill just to look at it! :-)

Best of luck,

- Thomas


#50

I guess you knew this already, but if you need a battery pack for firing up at last your HP-67, very good new battery packs are constantly sold in eBay for 15 dollars. If I recall the name correctly, look for seller waterhosko.

I'm charging at this moment a new one for my HP-35!


#51

Thanks for the tip -- but my plan is to build my own pack using standard AA battery holders; 3 of those will fit in a "classic" battery compartment, so with a little cutting, fiddling and soldering I should be able to build a custom pack from which the cells are easy to remove. The easy cell removal is important since I don't have a charger and want to charge the cells outside the calc using a cheapo NiMH charger.


Thanks anyway!

- Thomas

#52

A "Hi" from me too.


As you have heared form Claudio, we descided to cancel the auction and not to leave feedbacks.
I regret that we couldn´t fix the deal, but I can understand Claudio in his situation (maybe he can also understand my point o view).

I promissed to Claudio, not to sell the HP-67A on ebay or on the museum right now, maybe later, when I found a battery pack and a cover (I realy do not have one for this unit!). So, please do not mail me for a deal with this incomplete calculator.

I also announced to Claudio, that I will send him a little Swiss gift as sign of agreement.


I can agree to Claudio by saing: "Thanks to everybody´s help".

#53

It's good to see that you've been able to find a friendly way to solve the matter. Original battery packs are somewhat difficult to find, and if found, they are more than probably dead. On the other hand, this guys sells on ebay compatible battery packs that are far better than the original ([url]http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=11713&item=5773269636&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW[/url]).

A battery door is very diffcult to find so Iguess there was no other option than cancelling the deal in a friendly way.

However, as said, the HP 67 is quite common and easy to find. Ebay Deutschland maybe the best option for you (try HP 67 Taschenrechner) and should reach €100 for a good condition model, most probably with a gummy card reader wheel (there are several articles in this site that explain how to repair that).


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