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HEPAX manual



#24

Hi all! I'd like to read the HEPAX manual. I've heard frequently that it's available for download "from the other site" (TOS). Well, OK, ... sorry for being ignorant, but I really don't know about TOS :-( So, I would very much appreciate if someone could provide a real URL ...

Juergen


#25

Juergen,
I dropped you an email giving the info.
You can also use Google and do a simple search on "HP41" and turn up the site link.

People posting on this forum don't give the link out of respect for Dave Hicks.
DavidY


#26

> People posting on this forum don't give the link out of respect for Dave Hicks.

How does that constitute respect? Are they in competition? Or both trying to preserve and promote our interest in the old HP calculators? How could Dave Hicks have a problem with that?!


#27

The problem is that the people who created and/or operate "that other site" seems to be involved in (or somehow affected by) some kind of legal situation; may it be kind of a claim from a third party (a calculator manufacturer, perhaps?), or something similar.

The legal situation, whatever it may be, is such that Dave Hicks may get involved and affected just by allowing the name of that site to appear here, even as a simple character string. I assume that a hyperlink could be taken as a greater offense. So he asked us not to include such ASCII strings in our postings, and he even needed to devise filters that will detect that particular sequence of characters. He also needed to spend part of his time in manually deleting the potentially harmful messages.

While all this is most strange (it may be natural for lawyers; I don't know), it seems to be the way things are in the period of history we are living in.


#28

This is what Warren said in the FAQ on his site regarding this subject:



Why are links to this site banned on the MoHPC forum?


I really don't know for sure, but this question keeps being asked, so I will tell you what I know. When I first started this site, I did not have permission to distribute HP-41 materials. The hpmuseum.org forum would not let anyone post a "reference to a site that contains unauthorized copies of copyrighted materials". Since this was true, I decided to take down TOS if I could not obtain permission from HP. Fortunately, I was able to obtain permission and I asked Dave Hicks to remove the warning message. It seems Dave's objection comes down to the fact that for some reason I have permission to distribute HP-41 ROM images and he does not. It is not clear to me if he either does not believe I actually have permission, or he is being advised by his contacts at HP to distance himself, or he views this site as some sort of competition. Anyway, after asking nicely, I finally insisted that he remove any "defamatory statements" about my site because it was "causing people to view it as a disreputable source and damaging my personal reputation". I never made any threats, and never said I was going to take "legal action". Dave's only response was to change the message to what you see now, and refuse to talk about it.

It costs a lot of time and money to run this site and it is purely a hobby for me, but I think it is worthwhile and a lot of people seem to appreciate it. MoHPC is a great site and I really regret this situation and hope that someday this can be resolved.

12345 to delete ...


#29

I visited HP headquarters last week and brought this up - again. Sorry - no change.

I had talked about it until accusations of defamation were made over a forum error message that was generated about 7 times a year and seen only by the poster of the message. Now I have a much more vague message. That's all I can say.


#30

Hi Dave!

Tnx 4 the clarification, seems I was wrong with my assumption. So it was pure coincidence that the ban of "that other site" started when his freeware was offered for $ on a M$-site? I'd like to know if I do something
unlawful if I link to W. from my site or if I do use his emulator?

Inquisitive.....Mike


#31

Sorry Mike but I don't know if there was any relation to "$ on a M$-site" or not. I don't even know exactly what that means and if I did, I think I still wouldn't know whether it relates.


#32

Sorry if I was not clear for everybody: $ stands for money, and M$ for MicroSoft.

Ciao.....Mike

#33

To the best of my knowledge, EVERYTHING on my site is completely legal. I have written permission from each copyright holder to distribute their manuals, programs, etc. Some holders released material under GNU GPL, some to public domain, some gave me specific permission to distribute their materials, which they may or may not have given to anyone else.

My site has apparently been singled out and banned from this forum for vague, unsupported reasons. People wonder if I am doing something wrong, as evidenced by some of these postings.

If you have any doubt, I assure you, there are no claims whatsoever against what I am doing. If anyone can show otherwise, please do so. Dave, if you have evidence from HP that I am doing something that they consider to be a violation of their copyright then please make it known. I think this is all about nothing.

What more can I say? Thanks to all of you!

Yours,
Warren Furlow
770-822-0030


#34

For many months, I'd wondered about the mysterious "other site" (TOS) dedicated to HP calculators, but which was not to be mentioned or linked on MoHPC. I never came out and asked anyone its identity, but it bothered me not to be one of the cognoscenti(?) after having been a regular participant for years.

I imagined the treasure-trove of forbidden information that awaited me, once I obtained the secret word.

The recent messages in this thread finally revealed giveaway clues about the identity of TOS: "Warren", "google 'HP-41'"... TOS must have been the site that I had visited and from which I had purchased the product more than a year ago!

Aw, gee whiz... I felt like little Ralphie in "A Christmas Story", who obtained his long-awaited Secret Decoder Ring only to receive the message "Drink Ovaltine" when he then got a chance to use it.

Seriously, I hope that the situation is resolved to satisfaction of all parties.

-- KS


Edited: 2 Oct 2004, 1:46 a.m.

#35

I see no response (Ovaltine notwithstanding!), so I have to conclude there are no legal issues. Is there some other issue? Lets work it out, but I have got to know what it is first!

I hear the house analogy and to some extent I will go with that. But a leader is expected to be fair and reasonable.

I think it is time to end this and get back to the great hobby we all love. This is a great website with a great bunch of people that frequent it and share information freely - with one exception. May my site please be off the "blacklist"?

Best wishes to all of you!

Yours,
Warren


#36

Perhaps if you post your "permission" letters from HP, then a discussion could be held on them.

apparently, somebody at HP thinks you don't have permission, but you say you do.

Should be easy enough to settle, I woudl think. I mean, either you do or you do not. :-)

Gene

#37

I'm trying to ask Fred Valdez in a different way than I tried previously.

However, I wouldn't expect an answer until during the workweek at best.


#38

Gene,
I don't have an objection to doing that, per-se, however I am not sure HP would appreciate me releasing their correspondance, especially to the public.

It is possible this is a case of the right hand not knowing what the left hand is up to. I hesitate to even mention the names of HP people publically but I did provide my contacts to Dave several years ago. Dave, in case you don't have that info anymore, I will send you a private email with the name of the person in HP legal that wrote my letter, so you may address your message to both of them.

No one from HP has ever contacted me to object to anything.

Thanks,
Warren

#39

Andres, thanks for that answer.

Garth,
Sorry, I simply thought that anyone curious about all the dancing about "that other site" would have done a search on this site's archives for some background and would have gotten some information about the situation and that I didn't need to be explict.

In so far as "respect". When I visit a friend's house or use his possessions common courtsy dictates I respect his wishes. This is Dave Hicks site. He gracious allows us to use this forum. And, he deserves respect for the work he's put in producing this site, he didn't/doesn't have to share it with us.

Also,Dave and Warren are both good guys. They have given invaluable resourses for 41 users. They both should be respected for that.


#40

I don't see the conflict, myself. Warren's site is more HP-41-specific, whereas this one is more general for all the HP calculators. I myself have provided several pieces of material for Warren to put up on his site, and when I asked if he knew if there was a forum anywhere, he told me about this one. As I see it, the sites complement each other, not conflict. I'm glad to have found both, and it seems that Dave and Warren each would be glad for the other's contributions to the preservation of our interest. I would be.

#41

Well, I think I finally did understand the problem with "TOS" and I will respect and follow the attitude that you all share regarding this topic!
However, David, many thanks for the information, which I - of course - will handle with discretion and confidence!

Juergen


#42

Juergen Rodenkirchen wrote:

Quote:
Well, I think I finally did understand the problem with "TOS"

Shouldn't you try to find out both sides of the truth to understand the problem? :-)

If only they could find a way to work out their differences...

Jordi


#43

Hi Jordi!

Quote:
Shouldn't you try to find out both sides of the truth to understand the problem? :-)

Sure! You should *always* try to see both sides ;-) But, in this case I just meant that I did understand why "TOS" never appeares as real hyperlink, but ...

Quote:
If only they could find a way to work out their differences...
... admittedly I did not understand te "deeper" reasons for that: Never thought that they actually have differences ...

Anyway, Jordi, can we expect to have new excellent contributions to Datafile from your side? I really loved your article series about calculator-books :-)

Regards, Juergen


#44

Hi Juergen,

Quote:
"TOS" never appeares as real hyperlink

Yep, one must be careful when posting.

Quote:
Anyway, Jordi, can we expect to have new excellent contributions to Datafile from your side? I really loved your article series about calculator-books :-)

... many of which were donated by Warren, as you know.

You're so kind, Juergen. I'm afraid time is not on my side right now. :-)

Regards,

Jordi

#45

Well, I think HrastProgrammer offered a view to TOS_of_the_truth above ... seems they really have differences :-( That's really too bad!!!

#46

When I opened my mail box tonight, I found 6 e-mails intended to help me with the "TOS-thing". DavidY gave some additional explanations, Raymond even offered additional help with the document itself. Well, I do know this forum since quite a while but I'm always again overwhelmed by the kindness and the readiness to help of the people here! Great forum, great people indeed!!

Juergen

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