concerning 'calculator selling '



#19

Hello All,

Every now and then i have some HP's for sale here at the museum. And since allmost a year it is very commen to recieve several responses from socalled 'salespersons.

There emails all look more or less like this one:
----------------------------------------------------------
HELLO,
I SAW THE ADVERT U HAVE PLACED ON THE INTERNET AND I AM REALLY INTERESTED IN SOME OF THE PRODUCTS U HAVE PLACED FOR SELL.THIS IS WHAT I NEED:
=====================================================
HP-32SII
HP-42S
=====================================================
CALCULATE THE TOTAL COST AND SHIPPING TO THIS ZIP-CODE 23401(NIGERIA).PAYMENT WILL BE THRU CREDITCARD.GET TO ME FOR IMMEDIATE PAYMENT.HOPE TO HEAR FROM U SOONEST AND IF THERE IS ANY THING U WANNA LET ME KNOW PLEASE FEEL FREE TO EMAIL ME.
KING REGARDS
-----------------------------------------------------------

Or this one. It is clear that it is a pregenerated email. Between the 2 brackets there should be the calculater type that i put on for sale.
------------------------------------------------------------
Hello seller,
Am mike by name, interested in purshase of your[ ]
my mode of payment will by a certifed us cashier
check drawn on us bank so i will like to know the last asking price
and the present picture including the last asking price for it. I
will need to have your phone number where i can reach you..
Hoping to read from you soonest..
Thanks,
Regards,
--
------------------------------------------------------------

Is there anyone whom has done busniss with any of these people, or is there anyone who can tell me more about these kind of transactions?

Greetings, Ewrin (NL)


#20

ERWIN, THIS HAS BEEN DISCUSSED BEFORE. THAT'S A SCAM. THERE IS ANOTHER WHO'LL SEND YOU $1000 REGARDLESS IF YOU'RE SELLING YOUR ITEM FOR $50. ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS SEND A CHECK FOR THE BALANCE [$950] TO SOME CONTACT.


#21

Usually a tipoff for a scam is if you have an article advertised for sale at (FS), fixed price, and they ask for your latest selling price.

#22

It's a scam. Please read this article, the second scenario exactly describes your situation:

Counterfeit Cashier's Check Scam

There are tons and tons of sites and forums related to this scam, just search Google with "counterfeit cashier's check scam".

Best regards from V.

#23

Well it looks i handled it all well. I was contacted 3/4 of a year ago by someone whom only was willing to pay by check, and nothing els. And he was very unpolite towards me, saying that this is the way the deal will be made. I then responded to him, that i was going to whait for a more polite person, and was not going to sell the calculator to him.
Since than i never reacted to any of these email i got from socalled 'salesrepresentative's .

Thank you all for confirming what i suspected.

Greetings, Erwin
The Netherlands


#24

These posts got me thinking, imagine if you were an honest person living in Nigeria. Good luck buying anything over the internet!


#25

Andy posted:

"These posts got me thinking, imagine if you were an honest person living in Nigeria. Good luck buying anything over the internet! "

If said "honest" person living in Nigeria also happens to want to buy your product without even naming it, and also happens to offer payment by sending a cashier check which also happens to be for an amount far exceeding the price of your product and also wants you to pay them back the huge excess I would concede that, yes, said "honest" person is out of luck ! Poor innocent thing, such a wealth of nasty coincidences ! ;-)

Best regards from V.


#26

Hi Erwin,

I had the same kind of mails, I replied cashier check or paypal payment first and I would ship the item only after I had the money (real touchable euro's) in my own hands.

Never heard anything since then.

Ronald
(The Netherlands too)


#27

This stuff is quite common. Here in Belgium some lot of people try to by your car at high price, so said to export to Africa (Antwerps being an efficient harbour to ship over there). They give you a genuine foreign cheque, doubling the value of your car. They ask you to send half of the money by Western Union to someone if a foreign country.

The subtility is that belgian banks usually give you credit on the cheque, even if not cleared : in other words they trust you and consider that you've accepted a good cheque (sauf bonne fin, which litterally means "we give you the money unless it bounces...). Therefore uncautious people see credit on their bank, but don't know it's reversible (cheques are seldom used here). So you say fine, they've been fair, my turn to be fair. You go to the nearest WU agent, send half of the money to someone you've never heard of before, and with good conscience go back home.

A few days later you notice that your bank account has been debited for the value of the cheque + bouncing treatment costs... and that's there nothing you could do to be reimbursed. You've lost your car + again the value of it.

It happenned to people who just purchased new cars, and people were willing to offer them 150% of the price, hence a 300% cheque.

A few months ago I went to this place in Brussels where Congo people reside. Very nice place to have a beer, you need to see the "danse du ventilateur" once in your life ! I had a talk with some of these guys. I asked them if they'had heard about his kind of scam. I needed to buy them a beer to know more. Then they all bursted into laughter telling me "you Belgian guys make laws, and us unlitterate guys just manage to abuse them"...


#28

The only truly safe way seems to be cash-only, although it unfortunately usually insults one or both parties. A friend on mine who sells quilting products (yes QUILTING PRODUCTS) sent an order to Nigeria based on a confirmed credit card transaction. One month later the REAL owner of the credit card cancelled the transaction and she was out $800 -- an amount no small business owner can afford to lose.

The ability to cancel a credit-card or checking-account transaction (so necessary in these days of financial-data theft) gives fraudulent buyers up to 2 months to cover their tracks before you know that you've been screwed.


#29

The agreement here is that if the card is valid and the transaction electronically agreed, the merchant won't loose anything if he's of good faith AND has been cautious enough during the transaction.

On the other way the defrauded card holder can reclaim the costs.

If the merchant can proove that he had sufficent indications that the card was not stolen (voucher + signature that matches with the one on the card), he won't reisk anything.

It is easy though to send a card number and debit it. Card listings are easily obtainable. And yes, in this case, the merchant did not care if the issuer was the actual card number.

Therefore, the only solution for distance sales is to ask a fax copy of the ID + back copy of the card.


#30

I see your point but would you (as a buyer) fax the back of your card to a possibly unknown seller?

Here in the UK the back of a card usualy has the signature and a 3 digit security code that is not on the magnetic strip - if you give this away you may be asking for trouble.


#31

Yes you're right, as a buyer you expose yourself to high risk in faxing a copy of your card.

As a merchant, you can always call the card issuer and validate some details (name, address, ...) that you find on an ID.

The other option is secured sites, mainly paypal, but I also got defrauded by them.

As a buyer, you can deny a sale even if you signed a fax or whatever, the merchant has to prove he sent the goods. Some years ago, I purchased a 67, a 97 and a 27 on ebay and paid through paypal. I never received the calculators. I denied the sale to my card issuer and got reimbursed. They debited paypal, who is regularly threatening me. Now my paypal account is blocked (but I don't care, I'm more selling than buying presently, and receiving money by paypal is not possible here).

So... conclusion is to be most cautious with credit cards.


#32

I think ebay and paypal are the same company?

Judging by the ammount of help and support ebay give when things go wrong, paypal may be similar. This is one case where buying something on a credit card is best as there is more protection for the buyer (usually the high interest charges make credit cards a last choice).

I think paypal used to headline that transactions were guaranteed, but hidden in the small print was something like you and/or the other party had to be in the US to be covered. May have changed now so check yourself before using such services.


#33

Mys story happened quite a long time before ebay took over paypal. Dunno how it is now, as I sweared never use their services again.

Now, as a French saying "Only idiots never change minds..."


#34

You may have seen these sites before (I just looked):

http://www.paypalsucks.com/

http://paypalsucks.com/PayPalFormerEmployee1.shtml

From the text there it looks like paypal is not a company to deal with. Strange how almost every ebay transaction lists paypal as acceptable, I've seen many listings updated with paypal 'now being acceptable'. Do sellers get a discount or coerced into getting more buyers sucked in?

#35

How do these scams phish out the email addresses? The for sale sectuion on this forum is pretty small potatoes compared to most operations, you'd think we would fall below their radar.

I can see their using email addresses from some operation on the scale of eBay or such.

#36

These last weeks, each time I've posted an ad on this forum I received such a mail.

At first I replied politely and did not get any answer back. To the next scams I asked a phone number and/or and address, still no answer. Now I do reply being really rude (very good therapy : all my frustrations are launched to them) and still no answer. I was thinking that if all of us were so rude they would know it wasn't worth contacting people who were posting on this forum...


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