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Classic Series Cosmetics



#13

Hi all, I have two questions about restoring my HP65, 1. how do I clean the keyboard (not keys) without affecting the painted on lettering, assuming I have the calc dismantled ?. 2. What kind of glue should I use to stick the back label on with ?. I completely removed the label, see my earlier posting on how I did this. Thanks - John


#14

Cleaning the keyboard: if you have completely disassembled the calculator, you can use water and soap on the case. I often use isopropyl alcohol, and found it safe with Classics.

The best glue for the back label is rubber cement. It secures the label nicely and makes it relatively easy to remove it again if you need to access the innards of your machine.


Viktor


#15

I have cleaned the disassembled case on both the HP-65 & HP-67 with a solution of 3 parts water to 1 part "Formula 409" with no problems. The face cleaned up nicely and there was no loss of lettering (though if you rub hard enough with anything that could happen).

I didn't remove the whole back label on any of the three that I've worked on, just peeled back the corners to get at the screws. I reattached the corners with a glue stick. It sticks them down well and is easy to apply, but is not permanent.

Matt Riehl


#16

I also use 409 (full strength) and rinse with water. I do the same with all the buttons. Rubber cement also works well on the back label. I have also used plastic model cement.
I once had a HP65 that was very badly stained. Using 409 and lightly rubbing with a cloth had no effect. This guy needed a more aggressive approach. We have a super fine glass bead blaster here at my work and I decided to give it a shot. Believe me, this is not something you want to try on a HP-67 and the later HP-65's that have a more delicate lettering. The older HP-65's seemed to have a more durable lettering method. The letters seemed to be engraved and filled in with paint. Well I first taped up the chrome surround, HP label and LED cover and went very lightly over the HP-65 front surface with the bead blaster. I held the 65 about 8-10" from the blaser. When I was done, it looked like new! BTW I did not bead blast over the magnetic card strip holder right under the LED display. If anyone ever tries this method, please don't hold me accountable if you blast away all the lettering!


#17

I forgot to mention that I had my HP-65 completly dismantled. I bead blasted the front cover only (without buttons etc...).


#18

You guys are dare-devils indeed. :O

Formula 409 and other stuff like that, I would try a SMALL area on a Q-tip first, to check its compatibility. I seem to remember a page around here on Classic repair, yes, here it is:

http://www.hpmuseum.org/howtohp/howtohp.htm

and in it, the author uses 409 safely on a few calcs, but later, he talks of what to do IF the 409 unluckily takes off some letters. Yikes! I wouldn't have wanted to happen to me what he had to go through, because the paint on his one particular calculator had apparently not been properly sealed.

As far as bead-blasting, not many people have bead-blaster access, so I guess we are safe there... but I will make the point that the TYPE of bead used is critical, as well as the distance and exposure. I wouldn't want to suggest this to anyone who hasn't played with micro-blasting technique and gotten a pretty good feel for what it can and cannot do...

Maybe I'm being a nervous nelly. I would take a dirty, grimy stained calculator, myself, over a scratched, smeared or faded one. Unless you could convince me it was a very rare "blanknut" Model 65.... ;-)


#19

Thanks for all the input guys (Thibaut too). I think I'll try soap and water to clean, and try rubber cement for label. I don't think "409" is available in Australia, anyone know what the contents are ?.


#20

LOL! Considering the "country of origin" thread elsewhere in this forum, I might have guessed "Formula 409" was probably a bad reference.

This "409" stuff I hold in my hand is a product made by Clorox Corporation in USA. The bottle says the contents are:

ACTIVE INGREDIENTS:
Alkyl(C12, 40%; C14, 50%; C16, 10%) dimethyl benzyl ammonium chloride..... 0.3%
OTHER INGREDIENTS...... 99.7%

Obviously, here in America, our labeling requirements are somewhat vague.

It's just a basic all-purpose cleaner with no abrasive contents. It is sold primarily for bathroom/kitchen and other household chores. On the positive side, it kills 99.9% of all E.Coli, Salmonella, Staph and Strep on any HP calculators.

A product called "Scrubbing Bubbles" Bathroom Cleaner (brought out by Dow Chemical, now marketed by S.C. Johnson) has a slightly stronger version of similar chemicals, so if you find this, spray it into a cup and then add 50% water. "Scrubbing Bubbles", however, turned an old tobacco-smoke-stained Sony monitor a nice bright ivory again.

An alternative MIGHT be a great all-purpose cleaner known here as "Simple Green" (can you get that in Australia?); it is a strong concentrate, however, and contains citrus extracts including D-Limonene (not a friend to acrylics), so it should be diluted by at least 5:1 water/S.G. before you use it on any engineering plastic, and as always, test it first on a small area on the bottom of the calculator. "Simple Green" can clean ANYTHING-- it's good stuff, but you must use judgement on the mix. It is also kinda expensive for a cleaning product.

Just don't use any cleaner that has abrasives, or any that contains an enamel solvent (acetones, ketones, etc.) and be sure to test... I once cleaned an acrylic printer cover with an alcohol-based solvent to remove some oversprayed adhesive; a few weeks later I looked at the cover and it had thousands of tiny hairline cracks!!! (Apparently, some plastics are not so happy with ethanol.)


#21

Glynn,

Viktor mentions Isopropanol, I have use this before for various other cleaning (and glue dissolving) tasks. I presume this would also be an alcohol, do you think it would be safer than ethanol ?


#22

Isopropyl alcohol (aka isopropanol) is an alcohol derived variously from propylene or acetone; it, like most alcohols, loves to bond attractively (semi-chemically?)with water. Isopropyl is okay on your skin, and sold as an external stimulant in an alcohol/water mix. It is also the basis of most perfumes and anything you spray on skin to evaporate, like deodorants.

You'll typically find 90% and 70% concentrations at your drugstore-- and the 70% (140 proof: commonly known as "rubbing alcohol") is okay for most things. At a 70/30 combination, the alcohol is fairly benign, most all of its little atomic arms being busily amorous with the water molecules.

The 180 proof (90% isopropyl) can dissolve some paints, especially over time (exposure). On the skin, it will dry it out, by helping to liberate the water and evaporate with it still attached.

200 proof (100% isopropyl) is used most often in spray cleaners, usually as an "environmentally friendly" (read: government-mandated) substitute for the freon (triflouroethanes) that some have alleged to be a hazard to the global atmosphere. This pure alcohol stuff melts some plastics in a hurry, especially the styrene variety.

Ethanol, or ethyl-alcohol, is grain-alcohol, and it is chemically simpler, but it has nasty grabby Oxygen on one side of its chain, making it more chemically active, and, coincidentally, digestable. It in its pure 200 proof variety, has a bad habit of dissolving LOTS of organic compounds (cheers).

Ethanol is also used industrially, primarily as a degreaser. It can be found as a component of many cleaners, especially the kinds that don't contain any water, because ethanol and water together bind so well, that in low concentration, it hardly acts as a solvent any more powerful than plain water, and doesn't evaporate nearly as fast as it otherwise would (how fast does your rum disappear?). Ethanol is often used to "chase" water out of a fuel-system, for instance: it grabs water droplets and forces them to mix evenly with fuel, rather than floating around in globs on the bottom of a tank. While isopropyl would do this, ethanol is much better at it.

When people say: "isopropyl", it is likely they mean the most common, Rubbing Alcohol, 70% variety, which has to say "70% Isopropyl" on it rather prominently, in order to dissuade fools from mistaking it for an ethanol, and drinking it.

Most Ethanols not obtained in a liquor store (ie., at a hardware shop) are poisoned with a chemical to MAKE them undrinkable, a process called "deNaturing". The fact that Isopropyl is a different alcohol altogether, derived from petrol or paper processing, means it STARTS OUT undrinkable, so it NEVER says "denatured" on the label, so the manufacturers/gov't agencies put the word ISOPROPYL really large on the bottles, hoping you'll get the hint, this stuff makes your olive taste really really bad.

And so the words Rubbing Alcohol and Isopropyl Alcohol are now nearly universally taken to mean that bottle of 70% stuff that is cold as it evaporates on the skin. (Buy a bottle of 90% just to try that experiment, by the way-- it feels lukewarm as it evaporates.)

But yes, 70% isopropyl is what you can use for many household cleaning jobs. It is good at dissolving smoke-tar, grime, and mostly-water-soluble stuff too, with the advantage of evaporating much faster than water.

On some very "loose-chain" plastics, like low-grade styrene and ABStyrene, it may eventually "haze" the plastic slightly white after repeated exposures (which can be buffed out); this is about the extent of its damage potential. On most other plastics, it is perfectly well-behaved.

That is the ethanol/isopropyl/'rubbing' alcohol story. MY bad experience with the acrylic printer cover (noted in an earlier post) involved a cleaner that had ethanol; Viktor used 70% isopropyl and had no problem.

Clear? :-)


#23

Actually, I used 99.953% isopropyl alcohol :-)

But I do test it first before using it on a calculator that I haven't experimented with before.


Viktor

#24

My wife bought moisted tissues and always keeps a box in the kitchen. I've successfully tried that on a really dirty dismantelled calculator. Moisted enough to clean propoerly, and just enough not to go through the holed in the PCB....

Since then i always clean all the calcs I've sold just before shipping them, this gives an extra clean sensation.

Cheers


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