HP 33S NCEES - PE EXAM ..CAUTION



#13

For all those users of the new hp-33s scheduled to take the ncees / pe test.
Please study it and get used to your calculator. Lots of errors have been reported and recorded as calculator errors. 98% of mistakes are due to not being familiar with the calculator itself.
This is the best calculator available for the test but, please be sure to practice and get used to it.
Many have negatively spoken about the availability of this unit, Some HP shipments are stuck in customs. Large misc, bookstores and electronic stores are taking orders but do not deliver in time. Others are honest and advise that the calculator won't be available for the next exam. Please prepare accordingly and spend time practicing.

INSIDER
DELETE ABC123


#14

1. HP shipped the two I bought from their website two days ago. I have an e-mail stating such as well as a tracking number. I expect to receive them in the mail tomorrow.

2. Are you saying that "lots" of errors are due to the calculator? Is there no time to check work?

3. What is the point of your post? "Calculator error" certainly isn't an excuse for getting the wrong answer, is it? Sure wasn't when I was in engineerng school... Is there a check box on the PE exam that you can mark if you suspect calculator error?

4. What makes the 33S better than the other's "unofficially allowed" by the NCEES? In my opinion, it's that HP is selling them right now, rather than relying on eBay for a 32S. By inspection of the images, I'd say the HP-33S' enter key is too small and in the wrong place, but how hard is that to get used to?


#15

I have the 33s now! Very nice! The main keyboard is flawless regarding to keyclick and response. The cursor keys need some adjusting. The V shape actually helps to find the functions. [R/S] and [ENTER] have been swapped.

The massive memory let's me forget about the earlier models restrictions. I just wish that each "main" program from A..Z could use subprograms LBL_01..99 and that a program call could be made using mm.ss notation, eg label 77 in Z is called by XEQ(i), where i is 26.77, and there is no LBL_00, because that would just mean start of the other main program.

BUT there is no such thing...)-:

The manual is very good

I even like the new ALgebra history line above the calculation line. You just have try it!

[VPN]

#16

<< 4. What makes the 33S better than the other's "unofficially allowed" by the NCEES? >>

NCEES has compiled an official list of "approved" calculator models, which is at http://www.ncees.org/exams/calculators/#approved

It's not a very long list. Most of the "approved" models are algebraic and non-programmable. The only "approved" models with RPN are the 32S (which includes the 32SII) and the 33S.

The 33S is regarded by many as the single best calculator option for NCEES exams, because (1) it has been explicitly approved by NCEES, so it is guaranteed acceptable to exam proctors; (2) it has both algebraic and RPN modes, so anyone can use it easily; and (3) it has much more memory for programs and equations than any other NCEES-approved calculator.

It is currently possible to use older calculator models that are not on the "approved" list, as long as they comply with certain security criteria. However, this could change. In the future, NCEES may require all candidates to use only calculators from the "approved" list.


#17

<< 4. What makes the 33S better than the other's "unofficially allowed" by the NCEES? >>

NCEES has compiled an official list of "approved" calculator models, which is at http://www.ncees.org/exams/calculators/#approved >>>>

I know that, hence the scare quotes around "unofficially approved;" what are you, a shill for the NCEES? If you are, get this straight: Publish a comprehensive, exhaustive list of approved calculators. The research has been completed on this website and others, it's not such a hard task to put one together, now is it?

It's also hogwash. Put an unlimited stack on the HP-33S and I'll consider trashing my NCEES-unacceptable HP-28S, thank you very much. The best calculator for the PE exam, other than a well-oiled slide rule or solar-powered party favor, is the one I've been using for 14 years, bro. But, as I indicated in another post, I bought two HP-33S' from HP's website the other day, for $50 a piece. Some poor sap's getting stuck paying more than $120 for one off an eBay auction in a couple of days...


#18

...


#19

Did I say it was, Blunt?

No!

Banana oil to you.

#20

<< what are you, a shill for the NCEES? If you are, get this straight: Publish a comprehensive, exhaustive list of approved calculators. The research has been completed on this website and others, it's not such a hard task to put one together, now is it? >>

Nope, I have no connection with NCEES, except that I take their exams.

If you think that it would be relatively easy to prepare a "comprehensive, exhaustive" list of NCEES-compliant scientific calculators, then perhaps you should take the initiative, prepare one yourself, and submit it to NCEES for their consideration.

However, you may find that a comprehensive, exhaustive list of all NCEES-compatible scientific calculators that have been marketed worldwide over the past 30 years would include hundreds, and possibly thousands, of models from scores of manufacturers.

Might actually be somewhat difficult to put such a list together. I acknowledge that this website provides sufficient data for HP models, but you may not find equally good "museums" for every other current (and former) calculator manufacturer.


#21

<<If you think that it would be relatively easy to prepare a "comprehensive, exhaustive" list of NCEES-compliant scientific calculators, then perhaps you should take the initiative, prepare one yourself, and submit it to NCEES for their consideration>>

I knew that was coming... Come on! That IS the job of the NCEES. They're the test administrators! They're the ones who put out the ban in the first place! And what is your problem?! The research has already been done - as I indicated in the last post - it's been done as a labor of love by this website and others! All the NCEES has to do is gleen the info from here and go with it!

Sheesh, f-in people who just don't use their brains.

Vikinghelmet out.


#22

<< Come on! That IS the job of the NCEES. They're the test administrators! >>

A few comments:

(1) A major part of the problem is that NCEES is *not* the test administrator, contrary to your statement above. NCEES develops the test, but the state boards are responsible for actually administering the test and enforcing the calculator policy. Unfortunately, NCEES does *not* have the job of determining whether each examinee’s calculator is acceptable. And that’s probably why NCEES has been slow to realize how impractical and ambiguous their current policy is.

(2) You want NCEES to produce a comprehensive, exhaustive list of approved calculators. The exam proctors and the state boards want exactly the same thing. But be careful what you wish for, because you just might get it.

The good news is that NCEES will probably propose a complete "approved" list at their annual meeting in August 2004. The bad news is that it will probably be restricted to a few current models. *All* other models will be banned, even if they are technically compliant with the NCEES security criteria, in order to simplify enforcement for the state boards and exam proctors.

(3) If you have advice or recommendations for NCEES on their policies, then it perhaps it would make sense to contact NCEES directly, rather than the Museum of HP Calculators. (I’m tempted to add: “Sheesh, f-in people who just don’t use their brains”, but I’m too polite to do that)

By the way, I’m not defending NCEES here, just trying to provide some relatively accurate information. Personally I do not support the NCEES calculator policy. I prefer the California Board’s policies, which still allow HP48s and 28s for state-specific exams. In fact, I just used my 48GX on a California non-NCEES PE exam last week. For NCEES exams, the 33S is probably the best legal choice, for either RPN or algebraic users, from any manufacturer.

#23

...which provided a detailed listing of which HP calc models were compliant, and which were not -- excepting that I specifically excluded the NCEES-approved 32S/ii and 33S from my discussion. I asked that the compliant models be added to the Approved list.

The e-mail response I received was that NCEES would prefer to keep the Approved list short and concise. I responded by e-mail, asking NCEES to add only the 11C, 15C, and 20S to this list, in the interest of maximum benefit to HP users. The RPN 11C and 15C (1982-1989) were big sellers that are still used today; the AOS 20S (1988-2002) is a high-selling quality model that was retailed until fairly recently.

So far, no response or action by NCEES. I will press the matter prior to the August meetings, now that the April exams are over. It may be a good idea to prepare an electronic petition for us to sign and submit to NCEES, asking for these three models to be specifically approved.

BTW, I don't think norris has any "problem", as evidenced by his response just above.

Edited: 24 Apr 2004, 4:43 a.m.

#24

<< Put an unlimited stack on the HP-33S and I'll consider trashing my NCEES-unacceptable HP-28S, thank you very much. The best calculator for the PE exam, other than a well-oiled slide rule or solar-powered party favor, is the one I've been using for 14 years, bro. >>

Personal tastes vary, but the all-time most popular calculator model for the PE exam is probably the 48GX. The best calculator available under the current NCEES rules is probably the 33S. Sorry about your 28S, bro.


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