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HP's Defense of Outsourcing



#15

Take a look at HP's website (hp.com) and you'll immediately see an explanation about how good Outsourcing is and how it helps businesses. "Strategic Planning" is used often. I don't see "Greed" or "Cheap labor" used anywhere though.

Very disturbing, and a trend that seems will grow exponentially. Is there anything us bottom dwellers can do?


#16

outsourcing != greed

Its just a realization that you cannot do everything yourself. Product design and production either in part or in whole has long been
outsourced to reduce development costs and spread the risk.

The extreme is to just buy a complete product and add your label (e.g. the original dot matrix printer for the IBM-PC was an Epson MX-80 with an IBM label).

Having suppliers provide subcomponents to your specs is the more traditional oursourcing technique. Most manufacturers follow this approach (e.g. GM, Boeing, LM, etc.)

In the case of HP calculators, since HP can no longer make them, outsourcing their production is their only way to stay in the market. They way they have chosen to implement their outsourcing strategy (essentially outsource the entire operation), will not allow them to drive the development of new models and eventually make them also-runs behind companies like TI that have active development teams for their lines.

**vp


#17

Why are you saying HP can not make their calculators themselves anymore? Why should that be? Do you mean, they can't do it at a competitive price anymore?

Also, outsourcing shouldn't keep them form developing new calcs. They have the development platform and everything, and it was possible to port it to a new hardware, so HP can certainly continue development of new calcs - if it pays off, of course.

Just another 2 cents (all these cents add up, though, don't they?)
Cheers,
Victor


#18

Victor Koechli wrote:
> Why are you saying HP can not make their calculators themselves anymore?

They have no interest. Presumably the went throught the numbers and decided that designing and manufacturing calculators is not for them.

> Also, outsourcing shouldn't keep them form developing new calcs. [...]

Look at their calculator team. They are just sales people. They have no developers. Who's going to come up with the new ideas?

**vp


#19

VP wrote: Look at their calculator team. They are just sales people. They have no developers. Who's going to come up with the new ideas?

VPN writes: LOL - Cyrille is a sales person?
[VPN]

#20

Outsourcing is just a form of something called division of labour. Division of labour is a necessary condition for per-capita growth of wealth. A very illustrative example was given as early as the 18th century by a moral philosopher named Adam Smith, founder of the science of economics. His seminal book Wealth of Nations is definitely worth reading.

If there is a large enough market for HP-style quality calculating devices, then eventually some company will start to manufacture them. The high price for vintage calculators is no evidence. The market may be so small that manufacturing them would entail very high unit costs. Possibly higher than even engineers would be willing to pay.

All this has nothing to do with greed or stupidity, it's just plain economics.


#21

Well said Holger!

My question is this: "What is really buggings us". This web site and eBay sales of vintage calculators trigger an unconscious connection with the past AND with what is familiar. The thread about moving from the 41 to the 48 is a good example of how many of old timers struggle to adapt to new technology .. from a fixed 4 real number stack to a floating dynamic stack that handles all kindd of objects. I see the issue as two folds (1) ties with the past and what is familiar, and (2) resenting progress. At least we are doing it in a peaceful and civilized manner. Other humans on this planet resort to violance and terrorism to explress their disease with progress ... and yes that means you Ossama Ben Laden!!


#22

Yes you're correct Namir, it is a connection with the past in many cases. But I think it is also more than that.

I would tend to think of my *love* for my 41 not only as a connection with the past, but also because I used it so much during my formative years. The way I think and solve problems is tied into the way it works. (It trained me).

I don't think I resent progress. Rather I have found a customized tool that aids me easily to solve problems - think bookmarks in a well read textbook. I did try the 48, found it suffered from feature bloat. I didn't care for the display, but I liked the equation editor (when I could remember how to use it), and liked the equation library. Hated programming it and finally gave up on it. Besides, it was too tall to carry in my pocket.

Feature creep seems to be the word of the day. My cellphone has a calculator also. But it's worthless to me.

12345


#23

Jim,

Feeling *love* for a HP41 is something I share and have experienced also. In 1980 I got a job in the water treatment business -- I demonstrated pilot units to different clients all over the USA. I used to travel a lot and often end up in small towns. As a shy person who did not drink, I kept to myself and hung around malls (if I could find them)and spent a lot of time watching TV (and cable TV) in my hotel room. I ended up writing programs for the HP41 and sending them to Covallis (I wastold by the folks there that I hold the record in submission of HP41 programs). The HP41 because an important companion that kept my boredum to a minimum. It holds a secial place in my personal history. The HP41 and I made the man-machine connection. Interestingly, Star Wars is about the myth of the man vs machine (accoding to the late Joseph Campbell who inspired Lucas to write Star Wars with his book "Hero with a Thousand Faces"). So maybe there is a fine line between us and our machines.

The advent of PCs with wide screens, plentyful memory, conventient storage, advanced printing, modems AND ... a choice of many programming languages (for those of us who program) has created a new type of bond. These machines can easily emulate and simulate our fav calculators!!!

#24

"Outsourcing is just a form of something called division of labour. Division of labour is a necessary condition for per-capita growth of wealth. A very illustrative example was given as early as the 18th century by a moral philosopher named Adam Smith, founder of the science of economics. His seminal book Wealth of Nations is definitely worth reading."

The economicsa of the company will ofcource be better, but the individual who gets replace by a cheaper person in the Red China will have worse economics AND the US will have to support him => worse economics for the nation => concusion: The greedness will be antipatriotistic treason. There should be laws against giving the jobs to the Commies! Back to 60's !! [VPN]


#25

While the person who loses his job to some cheap labour in China may be worse off, the overall wealth of the importing country will nevertheless rise because it's getting calculators for lower prices. Another fine read is David Ricardo's Priciples of Political Economy an Taxation (1817) where he shows that trade is always beneficial for both countries involved even if one country enjoys higher productivity in the production of all traded goods.

The get back on-topic, buying Kinpo calculators is not treason but rational choice that benefits China and your country alike.


#26

"The get back on-topic, buying Kinpo calculators is not treason but rational choice that benefits China and your country alike."

Just my point! Give more cash to Reds?! Are you guys nuts! In the 60's you would have been jailed for life!

[VPN] - opinions only


#27

Veli-Pekka Nousiainen wrote:
> Just my point! Give more cash to Reds?! Are you guys nuts!
> In the 60's you would have been jailed for life!

Think of it as starving them out. If the Chinese sell you a product
for less than its intrinsic value, then they are providing
a subsidy to the West. Eventually they will go the way of the Soviets.

**vp

#28

Nobody in this thread has yet pointed out that the reason HP's Corvallis calculator team was shut down had nothing to do with outsourcing. HP wanted more room in Corvallis for inkjet printhead manufacture _and_ they had promised to move a product development line to Singapore. The calculator team was it - it could have been a different product team. There is still an enthusiastic group of former calculator developers in Corvallis and it is instructive to talk to them. They know the tricks and the traps - if HP were to employ just one or two of them on the "new" calculator team then they could save money by avoiding all the old mistakes they are repeating. Manufacture alone could be outsourced - but Adam Smith's reasoning applied to free market economics, rather than the world's largest free market country trading with the largest command economy ;-)

Wlodek


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