HP made in china sucks



#26

Hi

Well im interesed in make sugest to HP :

Please make a calculators in Indonesia again whe hp have a decition of make this in china make a bad election in china all materials are bads please PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!

Im pay more for best quality


#27

I read you load and clear Luis. But I just dont think Carly gives a s___!

Remove: ABC


#28

There are lots of items manufactured in China, and the quality ranges from poor to excellent. It all depends on how much the parent company wants to spend. HP could manufacture calculators in China that are of comparable quality to units made in Singapore, however it would require a higher unit price. HP probably employs target costing, which means they:

1. Identify the price a consumer will be willing to pay
2. Identify their desired profit margin
3. Build the unit to meet this profit target

A good example of a product built like this is the Chrysler Neon.

Although I haven't seen a 49G+ yet, it doesn't sound like it's all that bad. Sure, there were some issues with the keyboard (that have apparently been fixed), so what's the problem? If you want the benefit of a faster processer, more memory, SD card capability, buy it. If keyboard quality and feel are more important, then buy a 48GX.

Oh, one more point...I don't think that the Indonesian units are any better than the Chinese ones. I have purchased a number of Singapore and Indonesian 17BIIs and there is a marked difference in their quality. Singpore units are manufactured to a higher quality standard than Indonesian units. If anything, you should ask that they HP restart production in Singapore or Brazil.

B.

#29

I agree with all of you that whoever defines the standards of quality is the culprit not the people who are putting it together. I am sure that they (the people who put it together )are under very strict production and quality standards.

PS: Thanks you whoever you are for cleaning up my sentence!

#30

My GSM handset is made in China and is of the highest quality. The fit, finish and durability are remarkable and I have had no hardware or software problems with it.

Let's be careful not to bash the Chinese. A product is only as good as the people setting the standards--American managers in the case of the new HP calculators.

Buy yourself a quality PDA, get some good calculator emulators and a copy of Math Tablet, and be happy. :)

David


#31

I agree. For example I had a girlfriend that was made in china, and I didn´t had any problem with her, to be honest she was amazing. I just set up the standards and she went fine. My foult was that I had no money for the wedding band. ;)

#32

As electronic design engineer I use a lot of components and devices made in China, all of them of the best quality. For example, the top LCD manufacturers are chinese. The number one world manufacturer of mobile phones (sold under several high quality makes) is chinese.

You would be surprised to see how the new factories in China are.

The problem is how you specify the product and the tests it should pass.


#33

You say:
"the top LCD manufacturers are chinese"

I too an an electronic circuit designer (28 years now).

But your statement has nothing to do with quality. It has everything to do with cheap labor. Higher quality items aren't being produced because greedy corporations and gullible comsumers allow them to go to the cheaper labor market.

Because something is "top" doesn't mean something can't be better. It just means that corporations don't want to spend money for higher quality.

Consumers are getting dummed down to lower quality merchandise and told it is superior by the hype and marketing. It is not!

Specifications? Crap is being specified because it can be built cheap.

Edited: 29 Nov 2003, 12:46 a.m.


#34

A friend of mine, when we were discussing Bausch & Lomb Optical Equipment, regretted about "that fine optics no longer made in the US." He worked with Bausch & Lomb in the late 1960s, and could tell the difference between the quality of that "old and good" equipment and the one now made in China, for instance. Needless to say, he was always complaining.

Unfortunately most corporations have moved their plants to countries were costs are cheaper, salaries much lower and profits higher. The price paid has been cheap items available at low prices and huge quantities, and users/customers complaining about quality.

It is possible to raise up the bar in quality standards, but that has a price too. And that implies cutting down profits. The result: crappy goods offered by the thousands at low prices. Just MBAs and their colleagues setting the standards for what they think the consumers will buy and will in turn increase profits.

No flaming intended, but today's MBAs and their obsession with cutting costs reminds me of those scientists about three hundred years ago who wanted to build perpetual motion machines. There are no such things in the real world (and MBAs should learn a little bit of Thermodynamics on their academic programs :)

We all know HP took quality seriously. As a matter of fact, most Western companies did. But when it comes to slash down costs and increase profits, quality seems secondary or even unimportant. HP has got that bug, too, or so it seems. The "lasting value" has apparetnly lost its meaning.

My two cents.


Juan J


#35

A few comments:

  • Sometimes we just think quality is not at its former level, but it's only true when compared to what is feasible today. 20 years ago it took top technology to even build a scientific pocket calculator that would work reliably, today top technology is used to produce the same thing at an affordable price in enormous quantities, but producing the thing itself is no longer a challenge. Which doesn't necessarily mean things are worse today.
  • Of course, at yesterday's prices (affordable only for a small number of consumers), *much* better products could be made today. This actually happens in certain fields, like e.g. hifi equipment, photo equipment etc, where some very good and very expensive products are made for a realtively small, but well paying market segment. Unfortunately, such a thing does not exist in the calculator market. Then again, this probably would not make sense. Imagine the *perfect* calculator (achieved by combining all our wishes from this forum), at a price of $2000. Who would actually buy it, when there is a HP-49G+ which is 'good enough', to say the least, for a fraction of that price?
  • MBAs aren't all that wrong because it seems that consumers actually buy the cheaper stuff in huge quantities, even if quality were really less that it used to be.
  • Shifting production to 'cheaper' countries can only work because there is (and probably always will be) a difference in the development state between different countries. It seems to me that it is this difference that drives the entire economy, just like a power plant that is driven by a difference in water levels or temperatures. Of course, in the long term such a system will cease working, but today's buisnesses are only judged by their short term performance. Besides, I think that good care is being taken that the differences between the first world and the rest is maintained...
Just another 2 cents (centimes, actually),
Victor

#36

Hi Victor,

Your two centimes were really worthy. And I think you are right about today's emphasis on short-term performance, squaredly based on cutting costs. It is especially true when it comes to compromise quality.

The calculator of our dreams would be expensive in principle, but it would be possible for HP either to pass calculator production to Agilent Technologies or set a higher standard in quality at a reasonable price, as it did when calculators were made in Singapore or Brazil, for instance.

Shifting production lines to non-first-world countries is not a problem on itself, just a matter of what quality standard is set.

Personally, I feel nostalgia for the good products HP used to manufacture, from calculators to gas chromatographs, and resent the current lack of interest in offering good quality calculators, scanners or laptops, to name a few products; at least Agilent is keeping up with consumables (I have not gotten anything else from them lately.) It is possibly due to today's interest in short-term performance. Or should I say shortsightedness?

Thanks, Victor. Your post made me consider a couple things I hadn't, including some of the reasons for my rtantings about MBAs.

Just another two cents.

Juan


#37

Juan,

Agilent still makes the best Gas (and Liquid) Chromatographs there is... if anyone knows what those are!

At least that hasn't gone down the gutter yet.

Best,
AM


#38

Hello Angel,

Thanks for the info. Good to know Agilent is alive and kicking. Are you familiar with the 5890/6890 series? I am just curious.

Gracias de nuevo.

Juan

#39

Yes, and here is a real test for you. I have one free ticket for 24 hours of space travel in low Earth orbit. You get to pick:

1) Will your orbiter be made by Chinese military based on Long March rocket?

or will it be based on:

2) Quality standards in place for Ford Motor Co. Lincoln Automobiles?

Oh, yes. You only get one choice. You do get to give away the ticket you do not want to the person of your choice:

So vote like this:

Long-March Lincoln

____________ _____________

(Delete or edit these with password 123)

Edited: 29 Nov 2003, 10:45 p.m.


#40

The Chinese spaceship is actually a modified Russian Soyuz design. The craft the Chinese came up with is similar (to me at least) to what is known in the West as "Heavy Soyuz," a modified Soyuz intended to carry a lunar module for the Soviet Moon shot in the 1960s. The project never got away, due to politics and a lack of a reliable heavyweight booster. As for the Lincoln, well...

Therefore, my vote is against a ride on any of the two options.

Wouldn't a ride on a real, Russian-made Soyuz, or the 20-year-old Space Shuttle be preferable?

Juan

#41

Ok in HP49G a condensator have problems only in CHINESE calculators noe in 49G+ have a same problem and if you look inside of 49g+ can look a casio structur (bad hardware quality)

See


#42

I still have no idea what you're talking about. I've never had problems with a capacitor in any of my HPs. OK, it can happen with an old one, that after 20+ years one of them fails, but as I've said - I'never had any problems so far.

What's your problem with that capacitor? I suppose it's the one that keeps memory from being erased when you change the battery...

Regards, Victor


#43

A bunch of 49G (made in ChiNa) with bad capasitors went into dealers without HP knowing at first. In Finland all 20 of one of the later additional orders were all bad, so I can confirm it myself. Currently I have one fixed 49G in use on my desk (just to see how long it holds with a new capasitor is in place). Use archieves and search google (comp.sys.hp48) to see that this was a real problem once.

At the same timeframe there were other products using the same capasitors from the same factory, which also were faulty. HP decided to go for a backup lithium button battery in the new plus calculators to avoid suprises like this. The next suprise seems to be the changed pin in the Samsung manifactured ARM9 CPU, which caused unexpected battery drain (can be fixed in software).

The last few pixel lines flickering can also be fixed in software. Many reports of fixing the keys by wiggling them when pressed down has been announced in the comp.sys.hp48. I can verify that in my case the [ . ] decimal point key is now working. I did as was told: held the key firmly down and moved it quickly sideways. Actually it didn't seem to move more than fractions of an inch, but never the less it's working now.

I'm waiting for the ROM 1.24, which will fix most of the annoyances (and any "features" that still remain will be fixed later in 1.26 - why do I think so? - because I trust in Jean-Yves Avenard !)! Meanwhile I will enjoy the snappy feeling of the new speed of my 49g plus in plotting, catalog, garbage collection, I/O, etc..and thanks to SD/MMC I have now my PC 49G file collection always with me :-D

[VPN]


#44

Hi,

I have a few comments:

"The next suprise seems to be the changed pin in the Samsung manifactured ARM9 CPU"

What exactly happened? I do not recall reading about this.

"The last few pixel lines flickering can also be fixed in software."

This is nice, but how do you know?

"I'm waiting for the ROM 1.24"

I'm waiting for ROM 1.23!

"because I trust in Jean-Yves Avenard "

I was not aware that Mr Avenard was involved in this calculator. I thought ACO was disbanded. If you have any contacts at HP, please ask them to speed up SD card access when using the filer.

farewell,

Joesph


#45

"The next suprise seems to be the changed pin in the Samsung manifactured ARM9 CPU"
What exactly happened? I do not recall reading about this.
VPN> Use Google on 'comp.sys.hp48'

"The last few pixel lines flickering can also be fixed in software."
This is nice, but how do you know?
VPN> Use Google on 'comp.sys.hp48'

"I'm waiting for the ROM 1.24"
I'm waiting for ROM 1.23!
VPN> Public releases are even numbered

"because I trust in Jean-Yves Avenard "
I was not aware that Mr Avenard was involved in this calculator. I thought ACO was disbanded.
VPN> Use Google on 'comp.sys.hp48'
VPN> It seems that HP has subcontracted a lot of companies and personnel outside current HP calc division. Reading news and looking who answers to questions and how reveales the "true" developers. ACO is like Phoenix...and I like it! <using voice of Eric Bana>

...If you have any contacts at HP, please ask them to speed up SD card access when using the filer.
VPN> I think that they already know about this enhance request. I wish the bugs are solved in 1.24 and enhancement for the SD/MMC added in 1.26 - just my guess/opinion. I have no direct contact to the inside plans of HP and/or subcontractors that would ease the pain of waiting... :-( BUT as saidd earlier: I have confidence!

[VPN]


#46

Thank-you for the reply. It is a pity, I was hoping you could share some inside information ;)

I will search google for now.

#47

China rocks!! Hopefully America will wake up before it's too late. And I'm not talikin' just economic issues, if you catch my drift.


#48

As Michel Coluche said:
CCCP means CouCouCouroucouPaloma
;o)

#49

Ah! Coluche ... he was an interesting comedian. A bit rough on the edges. I bought his movie recently from Amazon.fr "Deux Hueres Moins Le Quart Avant Jesus-Christ" directed by (the late) Jean Yanne (whom I have run into a Parisian restaurant in 1971). I have yet to watch it. I bet it's fun (if I remember the movie trailer)

:o)

#50

If not, try again. English please, not Chinese


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