(HP-32Sii) and HP-33S, the latest calculator from Carly (for the mentally retarded)



#17

Holy Cow! Am I late to the party? Do you guys already know about this ?????? HP-33S is the planned replacement for the HP-32Sii ????????

http://www.samsoncables.com/catalog/prodDetail.cfm?Prod_ID=363&Sku=HP33S


Ha Ha Ha! Cool! My new-sealed HP-32Sii is going to be going up like Microsoft stock! This latest piece of trash from Carly lights my rocketship to the moon!

Can you believe what an incredibly ugly-fied design they came up with? The insanity of saying that an HP-32Sii user would want to use some ugly piece of trash like that????

Well, after watching, and comparing notes, about these insane, mentally disturbed monsters called "MBA's" it should not surprise me anymore.

I guess a fella can just laugh about it, and them.

What, do they think they are building a cowcatcher for a railroad engine?

I have never seen anything so stupid in my entire life.

Hey, they forgot something..... the digits in the display should be all made to look like it is melting, you know, wavy and tilted, big digits towards the right side, littler digits towards the left side...... everything
crooked. Whoops! I just gave away the secret to the "next" model they will release in another 6 months. Damn those MBA's are brilliant.

:o|


#18

I am sorry, perhaps you have not understood that the HP-33S is not a calculator (RPN, redleeeeeeeeeeds, HP keyboard) but it's a CELL PHONE with MP3 Player and it's so COOL !!!!!

Welcome to this century, in Carly's world !!!!

Old-fashioned Luca (I still love calculators....)


#19

Luca in Switzerland, ROFLMAO !

Excellent reply, love those new HP-33S features !!!!

#20

Yes, I've heard it gets great reception too :)

Hey, I just realized something! We should all be happy that they didn't decide to use a rotary-dial for a number keypad, like old telephones used to have :)

cl


#21

Gentlemen, I won't disagree with your aesthetic assessments. I'm more worried that if I actually have to do some serious crunching on this keypad, am I going to be able to find stuff on it? And, weren't we all taught to visualize for the most part on a Cartesian-style orthogonal grid? How are going to remember where the buttons are for speedy usage, like we all used to on the HP RPNs we grew up with?? (When I use a 32SII or 48G is still silently form the 34C keystroke sequences with my mouth; for example, say, even though on the 48G, SQRT x is purple shift key-SQRT x, I'm still thinking, "g-SQRT" [blue "g" shift key- 3], or on my 32SII, the linear regression button is blue shift key-LN, I'm still thinking, "h-L.R." [black "h" shift key-6]!)


#22

That's a good story, as I noticed the same thing happinging with me and my 32sii--I always think of f-LBL-A and g-RTN like my first 11C!


Regards,


BIll

#23

How dare you talk about orthogonal grids for the keyboard !!

There are no more orthogonal grids !!! From now on,
whatever I say, GOES! Period! You will bow down and worship me, and you will buy my worthless trash and give me all your money!!

We are also going into printing and we have a new line of paper products featuring lines of random pitch, so that no two lines are the same. Also, graph paper where all the lines are crooked and wavy and unevenly spaced. How dare you disagree whether we should do that??

We are the MBA's and the marketeers. Whatever we say, goes. If we kill a few shuttle astronauts along the way, that's good then we get pay raises. For we run the almighty bureacracy, and we have all the money, and you have none, so you will not question my decision making again !

- Carly !


#24

Well, why not just sell log-log paper?

#25

uh-oh, someone has a HP32sii that is new-sealed...that means it isn't being used, and thus being forced to fail in its primary mode of function, just kidding :)

I've been using my 32sii day in and out for over 1 year now, and I'm glad I found it in the discard bin at a Fry's. If it had been unopened, I might have been tempted to preserve it too. Its great to see classmates smirk at my 'old' calculator as they pull out their shiny ti89s before a test, then half way thru they look up in surprise as I'm handing my test and heading for an early friday afternoon of beach strolling.

Yes, you are right though, aesthetically, the 33s is a bit offensive. I wish only that the keys could have been in line. I'll get one though, and I will be patient and see how it performs....*dreaming* maybe they just used a really poor camera to take the pictures, jk ;)

cl


#26

Sir! You bring your HP-32SII to school?? Keep a watchful eye on it!


#27

Yes, in true defiance of collectors, I drive nails with my hammer! I carry it in my back pocket too. :) I love this thing, thanks old HP.

el


#28

Well, at least you don't wear it from your belt like we used to so many eons ago. Some of us thought it made us look "rich" (afford a calculator) or "hip" (with the new stuff) or "smart" (as if a machine makes your brain or work habits any better)...

... until the girls started to laugh...

#29

I guess this new keypad face is for those who can think and see in rhomobohedral or triclinic; more likely the latter.


#30

Would the brilliant MBAs on whom HP trusts so much these days come up with the idea of a calculator designed to match the user's cell phone? Like shoes or purse that compliment a dress? A calculator is supposed to be used for serious number crunching, not for fashion.

Will the decision makers be influenced by fashion? If so, it sad they come up with such a contraption.


#31

ALLLLLLLLLLL ABOAAAAAAAAARD !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


WHOOOOO!!!!
CCCHHHUUGGGGG

CHUG

CHUG CHUG

CHUG CHUG CHUG

CHUG CHUG CHUG CHUG CHUG CHUG

WHOOOOO!!! WHOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

CHUG CHUG CHUG CHUG CHUG CHUG CHUG CHUG CHUG CHUG

WHOOooooooooooooooooooooo WHoooooooooooooooooooooooo

chug chug chug chug chug chug chug chug chug chug chug chug chug


Hey....... bet I could "fix" some of those HP-33S cowcatcher models using the train track method......

#32

Designed for Klingons....


#33

Klingons! LOL!

Set your HP-33S to "stun" !

Fire at that rock formation!!

#34

My theory is that the drawing for the keyboard got stretched out somehow, and whoever made the molds figured "Well, if that's what they want..."

It looks to me as if the keys are about to leak out of the bottom of the calculator.

But who knows; maybe the kiddies will think that it "looks cool".

But maybe it's supposed to be "ergonomic"? Like those wierd-looking keyboards for PCs, "Wave" or something like that.

I think I'll hold off on buying this one. It looks to me as if it would be very un-ergonomic.

Regards,
James


#35

A lot of people are bashing the 33S, but how much of us will be buying one when it is released? I am dis-satisfied with it's design, primarly because of it's looks. But I will definitely be buying one. And I am sure that most of you all who are bashing it would eventually if not as soon as it is released purchase one.


#36

I will not ever buy a 33S. If all my other calculators break and the 33S is the only thing available, I will use my slide rules and give up calculators altogether. But I will not support such a mostrosity as the 33S in any way.

#37

Well, I suppose that it might turn out to be an ok calculator in spite of the wierd cosmetics.

But I don't feel any great need for such a calculator even if it did have a more conventional appearance. What advantage does it offer me over the 48s and 49s? To be sure, it is smaller, but still seems a bit much for a shirt pocket. No thanks.

Regards,
James


#38

I (and probably many others) will be buying a 33S for one reason alone: it appears to be the best calculator (from any manufacturer) that is explicitly approved by NCEES for use on the professional engineering and land surveying examinations.

I would much rather use my 48GX, but it has been banned.

#39

Let me see if I have a grasp of the cogent facts in this thread:

(In no particular order)

1. Some (many?) consider the HP33S to be ugly.
2. Some (many?) blame the design of the 33S and the decline of the HP Calculators on Carly and/or on anyone who works for HP that has an MBA.
3. Some believe that the downhill slide in all calculators started when the LEDs were removed from the display.
4. The HP33S is apparently intended to be a replacement for the HP32SII with 32kB of memory instead of 256B.

My thoughts on these four issues:

1. HP had a non-working model of the 33S at HPCC2003. They expressed concern over the negative comments that they had been receiving and asked us all to look at the 33S and comment. Several objected to its appearance. Several were OK with the appearance. No consensus was reached and no "vote" was taken; however, many seemed to feel that actually having the model in hand resolved some of the issues. Personally, I have liked the design from the beginning. I also like the design of the older calculators, but I know that any company that stands still - dies. One final comment - if you don't like it, say so. However, this persistent loud bashing accomplishes nothing.

2. At the end of the day, HP must make a profit. Whether we agree with the way they choose to do it or not is irrelevant. In any event, arbitrarily trashing a human being on the basis of having an MBA is silly. All that said, the technical personnel design the products, not the MBAs or Carly.

3. Classic Thunderbird (classic success) and Edsel (classic failure) collectors I am sure believe that all would right in the world if only all cars were modeled after these classics. There is a huge collector's market for them and they sell for many times their original price. This does not mean that reintroducing them would result in an enormously successful resurgence of their commercial sales. Avid interest from a group of (at most) a few hundred die-hard collectors does not make a market.

4. Instead of whining about the design, praise the fact that HP realizes the need for a good, scientific, RPN calculator. If it doesn't sell well, they'll change it to something else.

I don't mean any of this personally; however, I have been dismayed by the amount of negativism displayed on this and other issues.

John

(12345 to delete)


#40

Hey John,
I wonder why the MBA marketeers don't make a dumb stupid "cowcatcher" keyboard for their business-model calculator ?
(HP-12C)

I wonder why its OK to "stand still" with the calculator for business, but engineering calculators shall be discontinued?

I wonder why for the business people, they get to keep using the classic from 15 years ago, with a standard keyboard that does NOT look like a hood ornament on a Buick, but for the engineers, we get to use the cowcatcher?

I think our negativisim is more than justified, not only that, it's fun!!!!!! Jump on in, the water is fine!

And the sky is blue for those with HP-32S or 32Sii.......
c'mon baby.... $500 a calculator...... USED in good condition!

#41

Naim and John, to tell you the truth, I did not hear about any poll from HP over their calculator cosmetics. Also, when I first saw an image, about a month or so ago, I was given pause! It did not really look like a calculator at first glance. However, I do realize that gadgets for the younger set do seem to be designed to have a similar appearance. I suppose there could be worse faceplate designs. My major real complaint (ugliness really isn't one) with the keyboard layout is that it might be harder to memorize, as that really makes for most efficient usage of the calculator.

I would actually buy a 33S as soon as it came out if I had more "disposable income". One reason for this despite its looks is the "HP" logo: I'm crossing my fingers and hoping that it works and lasts like all other HP calculators I've had.

If my 32SII bit the dust, then I would seriously consider going out and getting one... this is on top of the fact that I already set to buy a HP-49G+.

After having said this, I just might wind up buying a HP-33S in a few months to year or so, as in the words of other posters, "to take the load off my HP-32SII".

#42

I definitely will not be buying a 33S. The ENTER key is in completely the wrong place and the calculator with its sTRaNgE keyboard looks wierd. I'd be embarrassed to be seen by my colleagues using one. Besides I'm very happy with my 32Sii -- by contrast it looks serious, professional and has ENTER where I expect it to be.


#43

Yeah, it looks like it's designed for the JHS/HS/college crowd. In some ways I still wish I was one of them, but then I'd have missed out on the 34C and 32SII!


#44

MBA's are so brilliant.

First they mandate an HP-33S calculator that looks like trash.

Then they know its so stupid and ugly looking that nobody

will want to buy it.

So how much do they charge for it?? $59.99 suggested price?

In a desperate fit to encourage a few suckers buy it...

sell it for next to nothing.......

to the ones who toss it in a drawer without trying to use it...

Meanwhile they could be getting $130 per unit if they would
merely sell an HP-32S or a HP-32Sii, and they don't

even have to pay anybody to design & tool anything.

Brilliant! Simply brilliant. Those brilliant MBA's

and their marketeering and management brethren.

Time to buy a Dilbert cartoon book......... "
Please dont step in the management".



#45

Give it a rest and take it elsewhere. You are exposing your ignorance in public, which is an unwise thing to do.

I guess it's ok to attack MBAs out here. I can always haul out the engineering jokes, but then I have more respect for others than some do here.

Perhaps if you understood profit and loss, you might be able to better communicate.

Gene

P.S. To those who are not as obnoxious...I too wonder why the wild/weird keyboard...but I have it on good authority that once people hold this 33S in their hands, they like it. If you don't, great...go buy a $500 HP-32SII somewhere.


#46

You argue with him.

Thank you Gene. Well said.

#47

Hi Gene,


You know, I know some MBA's--some are cousins, some are friends, others are acquaintences, and the fact is that I do not find a discernable stereotype (except maybe more drive for getting ahead:-) One MBA in my in crowd is very much of a scientist--he runs a small value investment company, which he founded after leaving a big Institutional which he found was going the wrong way. He loves digging into the nuts and bolts of a comnpany--researching it in detail--and then developing a value. He likes this so much, that he has not been doing enough marketing. So, he hired someone else (who is not an MBA but a sharp guy) to do the marketing. In other words, an MBA (in this case Wharton) is merely a tool in the box--he learned some tricks for analysis there, got his foot in the door etc.


Another friend is a Princeton Mech Engineer, who after 4 years in the paper and pulp business, then 4 years in the industrial controls business, went back to school (Kellogg) and earned an MBA. He now works for a major pharmaceutical---teaching hospitals and doctor's groups how the vaccines they are offering work. And he is climbing the ladder.


The point is, MBA does not automatically equate with SLEEZE. There is SLEEZE everywhere and it has NOTHING to do directly with business school. It may have much more to do with, well, the evolution (devolution) of American culture........

regards,


Bill


#48

That sounds OK Bill Platt,

I will reflect upon your words.

Of course you must realize life is so much simpler

if all problems can be blamed onto one category of person :o|

BTW "Sleaze" is spelled "sleaze" not "sleeze".

http://www.dictionary.com

Also "sleazy", "sleaze-ball", "sleaze-bag".


#49

Sleaze
sleeze
sleezy
cheezy
cheazy
wheezy
pass the
greasy
greezy
freedon fries pleeze
freezing popsicles
eating bleating sheep


Where am I going? I don't know; go ask your Seuss!

#50

There are some odd things about the 33S, but its retail price is not one of them.

The 33S replaces the 32SII, which also retailed for about $60. Do a search on Google, and you can still find old advertisements listing the 32SII at that price (don't expect to find any in stock, though).

The cost of the 32SII soared after it was discontinued. It may come down somewhat after the 33S becomes available.


#51

MBA's hear this: I AM STUNNED
that there are actually a number of MBA types on this chat board who actually defend the stupidity of the HP-33S.

MBA's whom actually think it is reasonable that HP has destroyed their classics such as 41C, and expect technical people to instead use a calculator with keys shaped like a cowcatcher. Who say "its not so bad if you try it".

MBA's, dear friends, if you just read what I said,
I rest my case. You are the only ones dumb enough to buy what you advocate. The people intelligent enough to be engineers prefer rectangular coordinates. Perhaps an MBA does not know what those are.

what's next, a keyboard based on polar coordinates? Make the keyboard look like a big round circle ???

Why not make the calculator completely spherical, so that the keys are on all sides of of a big round ball ????

I bet when you actually get it into your hands, it will "not be so bad".

Sheeeshhhhhhh! the lunacy of you business people. Why don't you go buy a Dilbert book, to see what engineers think of you ! No, people actually working with technical realities won't be buying your stupid HP-33S , and its proof that business people have sunk far lower into the gutter than even the most cynical engineers might have imagined !!!!!


#52

Hey, yeah...I know. If worse comes to worse, we could buy a batch and retro fit them into our own "weird" rectangular layout keybd cases. Just wondering, does the "s" in 33s stand for 'slanted'?

Or maybe we could create an 'overlay' like the ooooold hp's had, and it would be rectangular. That would be the 33R. :)

el


#53

Yeah, but to create such an overlay, you'll have to use the calculator first to solve some transform equations, I imagine, to map the chevron shaped grid onto an orthogonal one. So, I guess, one might as well get used to it's weird layout. ;)

As one who started off with a TI SR-40, my second calculator, which was the HP-34C, needed some getting used to (algebraic to RPN, addressing storage registers, shift keys, etc.). Then, when the formerly trusty ol' 34C started to get a little dotty, I tried to replace it with the HP-48G. The general keyboard layout was very similar, but still wasn't exactly the same and required some getting used to. This was displaced by a HP-32SII (as at the time, I needed more of the 32SII's features than the 48G's). Yet again, I had to adapt to another calculator keyboard, as all the functions and labels, etc., were again in different places from that of the other two.

Admittedly, these were all HP RPN models, but so is the HP-33C. Hopefully, this will give it an underlying similarity to its predecessors so that sloped positions of the keys will be merely the slightest of annoyances. Again, as I said in another post, just being ugly is not really a problem. Compared to the Spices, I think all other calcs just don't look so cool. Functionality over form. In fact, in this very museum site, I think we can all find a calculator or two that may be "beautiful", but may not be much of a joy to use.


#54

Hey Ed,

Ive seen alot of this SPICE on here, what exactly is SPICE? Is there any relation to the spice expansion boards for the 48gx?

eric


#55

Eric - "Spice" was the code name given to the HP-33E, 33C, 34C, 38E and 38C calculators of the late 70s and early 80s.

See http://www.hpmuseum.org/3qs/34c3q.jpg
for a good example of the aesthetics of the Spice machines that Norm and others have written about.

#56

Norm,

I think it's a bit unfair to use MBA as a derogatory label. While there are, I'll agree, many idiots who become MBAs, there also are many MBAs who are not idiots. The degree someone earns is not a reliable indicator either of intelligence or character. (Personally, I can't imagine anyone being interested enough in business to want to major in it -- I successfully avoided taking any business or accounting classes in high school, college or grad school; I didn't even take high school typing class!). But I know a number of business types who are intelligent, pleasant and reasonable people.

Having said that, I agree with you about how horrible HP's recent calculators (especially the 33s) have turned out to be. I prefer the 41C over the 34C, and unlike you I actually like the 48GX (which IMO is the last acceptable HP machine to be made), but otherwise we are in agreement about HP products. I also agree with your low opinion of current HP management, and because of their treatment of Walter Hewlett, I would like to see Carly and the whole board not only unemployed but reduced to poverty and jailed, if possible; but I don't think we can blame it on them being MBAs (if indeed they are). I really don't think engineering degrees would have saved those people from being scum.

I also share your frustration with those who are willing to settle with HP's current offerings. It's a bit like the case of a former co-worker of mine who was chronically late. His boss finally told him he had one more chance. If he was late again for any reason -- it didn't matter if his car broke down, or the roads were closed, or he had to go to the hospital, or whatever -- he would be fired immediately, no questions asked and no appeal. He had already used up all his excuses and second chances, and no further excuse would be acceptable. That's the way I feel about HP. They've had years to get it right -- and have proven on many occasions that they can get it right -- and they have screwed up now so often and for so long that I no longer give them the benefit of the doubt about anything. Either they get every detail exactly right, or it's completely unacceptable to me. If that seems unfair, well, they shouldn't have squandered their good name on the extremely bad decisions they've made in recent years (and I'm not talking just about their calculators).


#57

I sure would like to return to the days of old, when HP calculators were solid, understandable, and well documented. I'm sitting on the fence in regards to the 33S. I'd like to hold one in my hand before I make statements I might regret. It sure does look ugly in pictures, though.

I am also a Palm enthusiast and I remember not long ago the discussions that went on in those forums when Palm introduced its low-end Zire model at $99. This thing had only 2MB of memory, no colour, no backlight, and only a couple of the standard application launcher buttons on the front. In a place where people were looking for MP3 and video playback, built-in cameras and WiFi, it did not impress. Of course, by all accounts, Palm went on to sell a bazillion of them, with the Zire becoming the most popular handheld of all time.

Those "dumb" MBA's sure got lucky, eh?

#58

Hi Wayne,
I agree. I like your style.

One other pointer...... calculators need to be over at "Agilent". Agilent took all the scientific instruments and HP went on to build personal computers (wow).

AGILENT is why we still have microwave spectrum analyzers, impedance analyzers, and other sophisticated tools in production. The "Carly" types would've simply said 'derr wuts all this' and discontinued it.

AGILENT should have the calculator products also. THIS is the essential heart of our problem. I have often suggested we need a PETITION to move calculators over to Agilent..... but nobody has bit on that idea yet. Considering the "Chevron" HP-33S, moving calculators to Agilent is, obviously, our only hope!


#59

I absolutely agree; Agilent is now the "real HP" as far as I'm concerned.

A few months ago I read something the head of Agilent said. He was explaining an unpleasant decision he had to make -- I believe it involved layoffs -- and he said something like, "I always ask myself, what would Bill and Dave do in this situation?". That's the kind of person that ought to be running HP.


#60

Hi Wayne,

you mentioned the head of Agilent asked "what would Mr. Hewlett and Mr. Packard do" about a problem.......

Got the name of that executive? I am ready to write him about this festering problem of 'no calculators for the engineers'...


#61

Norm,

You can find the article (from April 2002) to which I referred here:

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=a9ntpn0reu%40enews3.newsguy.com

Here is a relevant excerpt from it (there's much more at the link I gave above):

"Agilent is run by three people, one of whom is alive. At the earthly level,
there's CEO Ned Barnholt. Barnholt, a 35-year veteran of HP, sports big
gold-framed glasses that droop slightly at the sides. He wears his gray hair
in a comb-over. He is completely without pretense. When Barnholt, 58, chats
with employees--something he does frequently enough that in the past six
months he's given speeches to and taken questions from some 20,000
workers--they call him Ned; calling him "Mr. Barnholt" elicits giggles from
employees. But while Barnholt manages the company, he seems to consider
himself only a caretaker for HP founders Dave Packard and Bill Hewlett. All
big decisions are vetted with the question, What would Dave and Bill do?

"Indeed, the entire company functions on the premise that it is the real heir
of Packard and Hewlett. When HP's house archivist had to choose between
staying at HP or going with Barnholt, she went with Agilent. The company's
Palo Alto headquarters is home to Hewlett and Packard's original 200A Audio
Oscillator, which launched HP, and its labs still churn out testing and
measurement devices. But even more, Agilent considers itself the true keeper
of the HP Way--the management objectives devised by Hewlett and Packard that
spelled out how to treat customers, shareholders, and most of all employees.
The Way's key precept is that workers will give their best if they're
treated honestly and listened to. In his 1995 book The HP Way, Packard
asserted that making people feel that they are working toward a common
purpose or solving a common problem creates "participatory management." To
get there, all managers had to keep to a strict open-door policy and
practice MBWA--management by walking around."

#62

Yes, the 32sii is hard to find without an ebay fight. The looks of the 33s kbd layout seem to be the biggest fear of mine.

I still don`t know what the memory will be, but Ive gotten pretty used to the 364 of the 32sii. There are two aspects to the success of the 33s in my op.: assuming the calculator functions well, (click?) those taking PE exams might need a non graphing/infrared/usb..yadda... machine. For them the 33s may be a savior. But the old school of big enter keys and thoughtfully laid out kbds may twitch at the sight. I am one of the old school, but I will be giving it a chance, if it has potential, I'll add it to my seedling collection. Best of luck!
el


#63

This has been a fun thread. I may have been too harsh on

"marketeer mafia MBA enron business" types of people, but

it was just due to shock of seeing the HP-33S in a photo:

http://www.samsoncables.com/catalog/prodDetail.cfm?Prod_ID=363&Sku=HP33S


To offer apologies and "bury the hatchet", as an electrical engineer, I now offer "retrofit services" for any marketeer, MBA, or businessman with an HP-12C or an HP-12CP. That's the prized 'classic' business calculator that has the obsolete orthogonal keyboard (yet was kept in production so that you can do your business calculations).

What you do is mail me your HP-12C or HP-12CP. I will carefuly retrofit your calculator to be just like the HP-33S.

I will carefully clamp your business HP-12C into my bench vise, and then I will bend the keyboard using a couple of pliers, until it has the SAME angle as the HP-33S (about 30 degrees) so that you business people can enjoy the same angle'd keyboard that you present to the engineers.

I will do this retrofit at no charge, and even pay return postage, just to show I am on your side about the new keyboard angle.

:o) I am serious. Start sending HP-12C and I will return them as promised, postage pre-paid, retrofitted to HP-33S style. Since you business types were just now very serious that you "like" the HP-33S, I expect some takers on my retrofit offer.


#64

Hi Norm,

I have again to disagree with you, but in a constructive way.

I am (unfortunately) a business type, but without MBA (I preferred to use my time for serious things like women, beer and work..) and I use my HP-12C and HP-41C daily.

I don't want my old calculators to be customized, but I suggest some features to be added to the 33S (besides cell phone and MP3 player, as you know):

1) Vibracall - it has several uses, including some for Carly !
2) GPS
3) Pac-Man and Asteroids
4) Built-in Hitchhikers' Galactic Guide
5) Coffee machine
6) Another (spare) equal key instead of the old-fashioned ENTER key
7) DON'T PANIC ! key
8) Self-destruction key
9) Calculator-shaped condom

This will certainly increase the sales and I will (perhaps) buy one !

Best regards,

Luca (Switzerland)


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