Hello,
I am looking to purchase a HP calc for my husband. He is a returning college student who always complains about his classes requiring a TI calc. He uses it fine when he needs to, but he's always talking about HP calcs.
I know he owns a HP-20s or two, but complains that they are not RPN or something. Which should I get him: 15c, 42s, or 41cx. He is a mathematics major/computer sci minor and will be using this pretty much every day when he isn't forced to use the TI. I think he owned a HP 32 a while ago, but from what I have read it doesn't do matrices, so that is out.
Which is the best choice for my hubby? If you give an answer, can you please explain in non engineering/mathematical terms as to why it is a better choice? Thank you.
HP 15c HP-42s or HP 41cx
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09-11-2003, 10:03 AM
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09-11-2003, 10:49 AM
I'd vote for the HP-42S, There are more reasons for the 42S, but these should suffice for the first turn;-) There are of course reasons for the HP-15C, or the 41CX.
Raymond
09-11-2003, 10:51 AM
All of these calcs are pretty hard to find for a decent price. All of them have different things that make them better for different purposes. The 15c has built in matrix functions. However, it has no output capability except to the display. But it is quite pocketable as is the 42S. The 42S also has built in matrix functions and further has infra red output capability to a printer so that you can have a permanent record of what his working on. The only input capability is through the keyboard. The 41CX has no built in matrix capability but it can be added through a module called the Advantage Module. The 41CX has several storage choices such as a magnetic card reader, a disk drive, and a tape drive. All of the information and programs saved on these devices can be saved indefinitely until needed. Altogether, the 41CX is probably the most flexible choice; but, you need to have more items to have matrix capability. The 15C is limited by having no output capability. In my opinion the 42S bridges the gap between the 15C and the 41CX pretty well, but has the disadvantage of having no long-term storage capability except in the memory of the machine. Any programs or information lost in the memory of the machine due to lock up or accidental clearing would have to be loaded again through the keyboard. ▼
09-11-2003, 03:02 PM
All of the machines will *work* The 15C is probably the least useful (sacrilege, I know) for a CS major. But it cna be had for under $150 pretty handily. the 42S (WITH THE RAM UPGRADE) is much more useful, and is probably the most useful dollar for dollar. An IR printer (the a model) can be had for under $60 generally, and the 32K RAM version should be available off and on for a reasonable price from fixthatcalc.com (I'd estimate under $300, perhaps as little as $250) - With 32K RAM you have enough room to model algorthms, code up some nifty time savers (network calculators, binary calculations, etc), and run some large matrices. The 41(CX) has the most goodies- but you pay for the goodies. Estimate about $150 for a good working CX with maybe one useful module- $30-$80 each for extended memory (two), $100 minimum for a working disk drive, $30 to $100 depending on condition and type of printer, then there's the HPIL module, etc. (I'm a heathen. I love my 41CXs, but the calc that I CARRY as a computer professional is a 42S(upgraded)
09-11-2003, 11:01 AM
If $$$$ is not an issue, the Hp42s is probably a good solid choice (actually, you just named 3 of the best ever calculators). And you won't have to deal with hubby spending any more money on 41c periphials and ROM cartridges. However all three are discontinued and actually quite sought after. For a more powerful present day graphics, I suggest an Hp48G+ or a 48GX if you wanted to (or needed to) buy today. Next month Hp will release a new line of graphics calculators that look to be really nice. However, they are not proven machines and with Hp's recent track record, could be loaded with Cockroaches or other nasty parasites (some seem to live on or eat batteries). I use an Hp48GX and am very happy with it. I also have the newer and then discontinued Hp49G. The 49G is faster and has better software features than my 48GX, but doesn't compare in keyboard quality FEEL (I have heard from reliable sources that while the keyboard of the 49G doesn't feel as good, it is designed to outlast the older Hp's: I can't argue against this point because MINE WILL, but only because I don't use it!). Two places to look for the three calculators you mentioned(and none are really reasonable for the average calculator user). As I stated earlier, the three you ask for are three of the best. http://www.hpcalcman.com/pages/1/index.htm and ebay. Else look at the Hp48G series. It is your best buy for the features and value (and handles Martices really well). ▼
09-11-2003, 11:05 AM
I looked at the HP 48gx and I don't think he wants anything like that due to the size issue. It looks as big as his TI calc. I read through some of the info on the 48gx and it uses RPL. I though I was looking for an RPN calc.
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09-11-2003, 11:09 AM
Though there are many who would argue this. It is keystroke similiar and to general use RPN. ▼
09-11-2003, 11:23 AM
Yes, RPL is different from RPN, but only slightly or greatly, depending on what you want to do! For hand calculations on the keys (no programming) they are almost identical, except that "number ENTER x^2" gives the square of a number in RPN, but "number ENTER ENTER x^2" is required in RPL (this is a very minor difference and in essentially all other things, they are the same). RPL also has an "infinite" stack and no "lastx" feature, but a 4 level limited stack, and lastx, are easily implememented on RPL machines (I got the "lastx" from someone here on this forum!). The real difference between RPN and RPL is in the programming. It is a really significant change in thinking to go from a 32s type of programming to the 48 series or RPL language. Yes, RPL is more powerful, structured etc but for someone like me, a practicing engineer, it has been a significant learning curve to get proficient on RPL--in some ways it is like PASCAL or BASIC and so seems easy, but then in other ways is is not so clear..... The "form factor" difference is also important. The 48 is really big. The 15c is beautifully small. The 42s is a very nice size. The 15c is significantly slower than the 42s--noticable with small programs especially if they use transendentals or trig. The 41cv is generally less expensive than the 42s on e-bay, but you have to be VERY careful about damage to the battery compartment and broken screw posts (just ask lots of questions before bidding). If you want to do matrices, you must get a module (Advantage) which I don't think is all that expensive. Also, look at the following: http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49gplus.php it looks like HP is bringing out a new RPN programmable in the next month. yes, it looks different, but it is a possibility.
Bill Platt bill at plattdesign dot net Edited: 11 Sept 2003, 11:28 a.m.
09-11-2003, 11:14 AM
One other reasonable consideration. The Hp28S. He may like this machine (I don't). It will be fairly cheap, is smaller than a 48G (actually its direct predicessor), and still easy to get via ebay. Buy one in as good of condition as you can get. Make SURE you get one with a GOOD battery door. Feature wise, a really nice pocket calculator (if you have a slightly oversized pocket). Looks good. But again if $$$$ is not an issue, I vote for a 42s. ▼
09-11-2003, 11:23 AM
As already stated, these 3 calcs are excellent, and they all have their + and - but at the end they all score in the same range. I'd also vote for the 42S as it is the most powerful and the fastest of these 3. Nevertheless I would also seriously consider 48GX and 49G+ for academic use. The CAS is a very luch advanced tool that really help when discovering new topics in maths. For a lower price than a nice 15C, 41CX or 42S you could find on ebay.
09-11-2003, 11:22 AM
I think I have decided to go with the HP 42 since it has a few more features than the HP 15c and it has the same body style as the HP 20s. Now, is the programming on the HP 42 the same as on the HP 41x? Also, why did HP stop making this calculator if it was such a nice piece of equipment? Krystal ▼
09-11-2003, 11:37 AM
Hi Krystal,
http://www.hpmuseum.org/hp42s.htm scroll down to the "programming" part.
Bill at plattdesign dot net ▼
09-11-2003, 11:52 AM
The 42S is supposesd to be compatible with programs written for the 41. At a certain programming level, you might regret the full alpha keyboard on the 41CX, onlmy accessible with menus on the 42S, but other people swear that with a bit of habit it's not an issue anymore. Anyway it is an excellent choice.
09-11-2003, 11:30 AM
It is all a question of taste, but I would vote for the HP-42S. It is the only of the three that has a two line LCD, it has more memory, is faster and contains all the functionality that you would have to spend a fortune on special modules to get for the HP-41C(V/X).
Regards,
09-11-2003, 11:41 AM
For every day use and cost effectiveness, my choice is a 4th calc, the HP48GX. If you are getting one because he always wanted one of those 3 calcs that is different. I have had and used the 41C, 41Cv, and the 42S. I don't use any of them anymore. I have borrowed and used a 15C, but didn't like it. After using the 48GX, I am sold on it's performance. I now own 3 of them as well and use them in my work as an R&D Engineer. I think the 3 machines mentioned will all be more expensive than a new 48GX, but will be less capable. The size makes a difference to some, but not to me. I don't walk around with a calc in my pocket. Ever. If I go to a meeting, it is not really all that big to carry with me. For longer hikes to another building, I always take my briefcase/bag with me anyway. The 48GX is powerful, has tons of software and programs for it, and is easy to use. It's your choice of course, but collectors have driven the price of the 3 calculators that you mentioned to collector level prices, not daily use affordability. While still expensive, the 48GX is available new, has later technology, and is durable. It was billed as the supreme engineering calculator and it's longevity and popularity support that claim. As for RPN vs. RPL, I really can't tell much difference in use for the most part other than the stack difference. As a bonus, you can pick up a 48GX, 48G, or 48G+ pretty cheap on EBay compared to the other calcs you mentioned. Good luck.
09-11-2003, 11:41 AM
Krystal wrote:
"Hello, I am looking to purchase a HP calc for my husband. [...] I know he owns a HP-20s or two, but The ideal choice would be an HP42S. Reasons:
Matter of fact a small routine can be prepared that, the moment your husband is presented with and turns on the machine, it will display an "I LOVE YOU" message on the display, complete with music and even a big, graphic heart and all!!. It would make for the nicest surprise, don't you think ? :-)
Best regards from V. Edited: 11 Sept 2003, 11:43 a.m. ▼
09-11-2003, 03:09 PM
I forgot to mention the graphics. They really do matter. For minehunter and yahtzee (still working on that, using the dice roller code on the site) But also for plots (I admit to using this as a technically allowed cheating aid - the prof never believed the the calculator was programmable and allowed it on exams- to help me sanity check some solutions. -oh, and the statistics on the 42S are great, and very expandable.
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09-12-2003, 05:51 AM
Keing in the program is an excellent exercise for both alpha keyboard learning and debugging techniques...
09-12-2003, 07:46 AM
Don't forget the yahtzee program over at my site for the 41/42 series. Works well and is just waiting for some graphics. :-) http://www.rskey.org/gene/hpgene
09-11-2003, 12:50 PM
How many "Don Juan" helping you, milady. ;-)
09-15-2003, 04:34 AM
Hi Krystal, The 3 calcs you mentioned are among very best HP manufactured and I understand your dilemna: none of the 3 can totally outperform the other 2 in every aspects:
I) 15C
1) Very nice form factor, the best ratio features / volume ever and probably the "most classy" award - Weaknesses:
1) -Very- slow...
II) 41CX Strenghts:
1) The most flexible calc ever, due to the expansion ports. No other calc can claim to be as versatile: advanced math, finance, aviation, chemistry - everthing is there. But you need to pay for extra modules. Weaknesses
1) Quite slow (but still twice faster as the 15C).
III) HP-42S Strenghts:
1) The almost perfect calc: The programmation power of the 41, the features of the 15C, and much more.
1) No other I/O than I/R one-way printing, which is -a shame- for a calc of this quality. No other way to input a program than your fingers. That's why the '41 survived still for 2 years after the 42 release. The 42 was actually more a 15C upgrade than a 41C upgrade, and only the 48SX would definitely berry the good old 41. A 42SX project was sadely cancelled (probably not to undermine the '48 sales). That's it for now :) Other points you could consider:
1) If you do not need matrixes and are not too demanding on complex numbers, you can go for the 32SII - simple and solid.
My 2 cents.
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