Is there any info about the Voyager series hardware?



#2

Hi to all,
I'm gathering any info I can get about the Voyagers hardware: ROM, RAM, CPU, display pinout, description and versions, PCB versions, electrical signals (coconut-like CPU) and with some luck the ROM dump...
Any links or personal information to share?
I'm about to poke my some of my Voyagers (HP-11C, 12C, 15C) with a scope to get some electrical information, and display driver info (multiplex rates, segments, columns).
I've seen many HP-41 sites, but none of our beloved HP-1xC series!
I'm planning to build a PIC-based microcontroller logical analyser (very basic, only the bus signals) to see what I can get of it.

Best regards,

Nelson


#3

Nelson,
Luiz has gathered much information about voyagers. He has enough information, he could write a book about them ...

Renato


#4

Luiz- email me please :)

thanks- christof

#5

Hi all you guys;

I read my name and thought I should answer... (Thanks, Renato).

About Voyagers, all I get was taken from some stuff I collected myself and many information posted here by guys like Tony Duell, Ellis, Pavel, Meindert and Vassilis among others (if I misspelled the names or forgot someone, forgive me). What I have so far is information related to ID codes for some IC's, LCD different types and a few HP15C compatible "IC" mixing. What I saw, based on Tony's observations, is that the main NUT-based chips (derived from the NUT-family used in the HP41) have internal ROM data, being the main chip the R2D2. No, not the golden android from Star Wars, instead RAM_ROM&Display_Driver. This main NUT is also the controller, and I cannot imagine a way to dump internal ROM contents unless there are some "hidden" codes that allow it to be done. The main subject is the extra third chip available in the HP15C: is it only a 64 extra registers CHIP or it also contains ROM-code? As the HP15C's owners know well, the HP15C has 67 registers (plus Random seed register), and 64 of them are shared with program lines. And that's the main part!

I'm in the middle of some time consuming activities and I'm visiting the MoHPC pages about twice a day in a "read-only" basis. That's why many of you have not heard my "voice" so often, but don't be so "happy"... I'll be back soon.

Best regards.

Luiz (Brazil)


#6

Luiz wrote (with some trimming):
[quote]
What I have so far is information related to ID codes for some IC's, LCD different types and a few HP15C compatible "IC" mixing...... the main NUT-based chips (derived from the NUT-family used in the HP41) have internal ROM data, being the main chip the R2D2.... RAM_ROM&Display_Driver. This main NUT is also the controller, and I cannot imagine a way to dump internal ROM contents unless there are some "hidden" codes that allow it to be done. The main subject is the extra third chip available in the HP15C: is it only a 64 extra registers CHIP or it also contains ROM-code? As the HP15C's owners know well, the HP15C has 67 registers (plus Random seed register), and 64 of them are shared with program lines.
[\quote]


Yes I suspected that HP15Cs have some ROM on their CPU chip.
(Perhaps not all versions though ??)

If the Nut instruction set has an instruction something akin to "MOV reg, codespace[addr]" or "MOV mem, codespace[addr]" and there are no security bit issues - many modern microcontrollers have provisions to disallow program code ROM areas from being fetched as data - then an external ROM could be created with a PLD & EPROM - to fetch 10bit words from the internal codespace ROM on CPU.


Bill Wiese

San Jose CA


#7

I was thinking of what chip is CPU or ROM or RAM on the HP-15C. I have a HP-15C and HP-11C both brazilian and both from the approx. same date, and they share exactly one chip in common: the 1LM2-0001 (on the right corner). The 15C have another in the middle (1LH1-0302), and the display controller is different (1LH1-0305 on the 11C and 1LH1-0306 on the 15C).
By simple deduction I think that the 1LM2-0001 is the CPU and the display controller have ROM/RAM inside, and the middle chip on the 15C is more RAM. This is a wild guess, I can't prove this yet (I'll try as soon I get borrowed some scope).
I still have hope that I can get the ROM out of them with some microcontroller probe.
About the display, it has some distinct characteristics: it has a excellent viewing angle because it uses 2x multiplex instead of 3x or 4x from the more modern calculators. This explains the HUGE ammount of pins that the display have: 56!
At least in my old Voyagers.

11C s/n 2644B33846 - fiber PCB w/ 2 chips, keys, display

12C s/n 2317A01958 - fiber PCB w/ keys, flex PCB w/ chips and display, all sealed with a black envelope

15C s/n 2723B12245 - fiber PCB w/ 3 chips, keys, display

The 11C and 15C above uses the same display and steel mounting, the 12C uses the same display with different mounting (adhesive tape?)

I'm curious about the newer 12C ones, is the display or PCB or chips much different? Anyone have some pics of inside one to share? I have many scanned pics from my 11C and 15C all disassembled.

Best regards,

Nelson


#8

Olá, Nelson;

the "big chip" is the R2D2 (controller with RAM/ROM and display driver; you can see many of its terminals are connected to the LCD) and the small, common one is the keyboard scanner, common to many Voyagers (I saw almost all except the HP10C with this chip). You can see it's the only one with connections ending in the keyboard; maybe it has other functions... No other chip is connected to the keyboard.

Exception made to the new HP12C units and the HP10C (I have not seen one in the inside), all Voyagers have two chips, and the HP15C has three.

I have some scanned images my own and I'll post them later. I'm in a rush because I have to apply a test to my students in a few minuts...

Best regards

Luiz


#9

Olá, Luiz

If I remember right, the coconut CPU has the keyboard scan lines in it, and it also controls the wake-up of the CPU with the "ON" key with an interrupt.
I think that there is no "keyboard scan chip", this is really the CPU.
If you look at the pics of one Voyager opened here in the museum, the chip on the right side is the 1LF5-0301, and in the HP paper that describes the coconut CPU from Tom Revere (HP, dated 7/14/81) it describes the 1LF5-0301 as the HP-11C version of the coconut CPU.
I'll try to identify the pinout of the CPU of my HP-11C with a scope next week.

Best regards,

Nelson


#10

Hi, Nelson;

your post makes perfect sense to me. Thank you.

I looked at one of the pictures I have and it shows a newer HP11C, single PCB, no flex circuit board. I see a 1LH1-0305 connected to the LCD lines and a 1LM2-0001 connected to the keyboard lines. Wich one is the processor?

Best regards.

Luiz


#11

Olá, Luiz

I think that the 1LM2-0001 is the CPU and the 1LH1-0305 is some sort of LCD controller/ROM/RAM.

As I said, I concluded that the CPU is the very same on the HP-11C and the HP-15C that I have (made here in Brazil, year 1986/1987).

With this in mind, I'll try to discover the bus signals (clocks 1 and 2, ISA, DATA, SYNC, PWO) and try to build a "dummy cpu replacement" to copy the ROM.
Of course I can be wrong, but I'll try to prove my theory.

Best regards,

Nelson

(P.S. I'm talking with Renato about other calculator projects. I'll be great if we can trade some ideas!)


#12

Hi Nelson, folks;

despite of my "smashed" available time, I also include this new fact: halfnut architecture. Look at the picture. (please, guys, feel free looking at the other pictureshere. Maybe you can find something useful. Be my guest.)

As you can see, the HP41 halfnuts have a sigle nut-CPU connected to the keyboard and a sort of R2D2-hybrid display driver, with RAM and ROM as well.

What can I say? ROM dump is now closer to be done in Voyagers, as all of these facts become clearer. I think your considerations are perfectly correct, Nelson.

And Yes! Let's play some e-cards around here and let all folks be informed for new achievements as we get them, right?

Best regards.

Luiz


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