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12c won´t die , or will it ?



#16

The Museum page on the 12C says:

Quote:
HP-12C

The calculator that wouldn't die. The HP-12C is HP's longest and best selling calculator. Though it has been followed by many newer models, with both more and less features this model continues to sell well. In fact an EduCALC catalog says of the HP 17BII (in bold type): "It's 15 times faster than the HP 12C, and displays more than 4 times as much information." And of the HP 19BII: "It's 15 times faster than the HP 12C, and displays more than 9 times as much information." In addition, both newer calculators can print via infrared to compact printers, have more memory, general purpose solvers, menus etc.

The 17BII and the 19BII did not kill it. Maybe a 12c platinum, with special "features" will .... Problem is that it may kill itself right after that. Then there will be no more RPN HPs. Great plan for producing only kinpo calculators, isn´t it ?


#17

That sounds like a theory I've heard explaining the "New Coke" introduction some years ago. It was well known that the formula for Coca-Cola was carefully guarded and sacred - they would never change it. Then suddenly, they replaced Coke - with New Coke. But everybody who liked Coke said New Coke was too sweet and flat - in fact, it tasted like Pepsi! (I used to think I preferred Pepsi, then one day I was in a public place where they were asking people to take "The Pepsi Challenge" - a Pepsi advertising campaign - I took the challenge and the better-tasting drink I chose was Coke! Since then I know the difference.) So, Coca-Cola withdrew New Coke and "re-introduced" Coke Classic, which is all you can get today. It tastes pretty much like the original Coke.

Now for the explanation (as I was told, and which makes sense to me): all of Coke's competitors used sugar (sucrose) and corn syrup (glucose) for sweeteners but the Coke formula required only sucrose. The United States keeps the price of sugar at twice the world price to protect domestic sugar growers (I don't understand it but I know it's true - I've also heard it has something to do with the politics of the Cuban blockade - some time ago it was being debated in Congress, one Representative in favor of the high price held up sugar packets and pointed out that restaurants still give sugar away, so how can it be too expensive?) so if Coke continued to require all sugar, it would be at a cost disadvantage to its competitors, since they used corn syrup because it is cheaper. So Coke needed to find a way to change the formula and they decided to kill two birds with one stone - first they changed Coke to taste like Pepsi, provoking a lot of discussion about how bad New Coke (and Pepsi) taste (at least to people who were accustomed to Coke). Then after a suitable period, they acknowledged their "mistake" and "re-introduced" - not Coke - but Coke Classic, which sounds like the same thing but is a new trademark, which at least morally releases the Coca-Cola Company from their pledge never to change the formula of Coke! So now they can use sugar or corn sweetenener, like their competitors.

There is one Dr. Pepper plant in Texas that is famous because they still use only sugar in their product and people say it tastes better. I think the Coke served in restaurants - mixed from Coca-Cola syrup and carbonated water - tastes better than what comes in cans or bottles - but I've never done a side-by-side comparison.

Now there is a debate about "high fructose corn syrup", which is used in a lot of prepared foods and drinks and which some people say is not healthy. Fructose was popular in the 1970's or 1980's as a healthier substitute for sugar because it was supposed to be sweeter - so you would use less - and it was metabolized differently. That fad faded away, as immortalized in a brief comment by Kramer on Seinfeld. Now recently I have read that when the body metabolizes sucrose, it breaks it down into glucose and fructose. The glucose is used by the body and the fructose just passes through. So since corn syrup used to be described as just glucose, high fructose corn syrup sounds like it would be about the same as sucrose - except without the necessity of the body breaking it down into the two components - maybe that step produces some side benefit or consumes some other substance that needs consuming.

I think I have strayed from the point - unless it is that maybe HP moved away from RPN to set themselves up to sell generic, outsourced calculators. If this is the case, the process started a long time before Carly What's-her-name was put in charge.


#18

Quote:


"I think I have strayed from the point - unless it is that maybe HP moved away from RPN to set themselves up to sell generic, outsourced calculators. If this is the case, the process started a long time before Carly What's-her-name was put in charge. "

In my life of using HP calculators, I have had "that sinking feeling" 4 times:


1st, when I lost my 11c in 1996
2nd, when I went to buy a replacement, and although I found the excellent 32sii, saw a bunch of ALGEBRAIC calculators (1996)
3rd, when I went to get a new 32sii in 2000 or so and saw the 6s and 30s (this was a MUCH bigger sinking feeling than the previous two)
4th, when I had a premonition this past winter and realized I probably aught to buy a back-up 32sii in case the last "sinking feeling" was true, which it already was!.......

So HERE I AM! ranting with all the rest of us Displaced RPN Users, or in techonymn "DIRPNU"

#19

Quote:
all of Coke's competitors used sugar (sucrose) and corn syrup (glucose) for sweeteners but the Coke formula required only sucrose

I read once that the formula of the _original_ Coca-Cola (as in "manufactured in the Roaring '20s") contained cocaine, thus the name "coca" and "coke."

That would explain that beverage's addictiveness.

Was that true? Is it still? Or is this just a defamation rumor started by Pepsi-Cola?

-Ernie


#20

Ernie --

True about "Coca" referring to cocaine in the original formulation of Coca-Cola, which actually dates back to the late 19th Century. The US Food and Drug Administration (or its predecessor) put a stop to that a long time ago.

Ellis Easley was right about sugar versus high-fructose corn syrup in the modern formulations. The pre-1985 formulation (before New Coke) didn't have the heavy "syrupy" feel. At self-serve soft-drink fountains, I usually mix "sugared" with "diet" 50/50 to lighten it up.

As for the 12C Platinum, I haven't handled one yet, but but from what I've read here, it appears like a "New Coke" regressive product. I'll never buy one; I have a 1993 Singapore-made original.

#21

It's true. At the time Coca-Cola was introduced in the late 1800's it was believed by many people that cocaine had beneficial effects, and some doctors recommended that people take a little cocaine daily to improve their health. So in a sense Coke was an early "health food." There hasn't been any cocaine in Coke for a long time now, of course.

#22

As Karl and Wayne said, the original Coca-Cola had a significant amount of cocaine in it - I think it also came in tiny bottles - much smaller than the 8 oz bottles that you find in an old coke machine occasionally. But even today (and this might be an urban legend), Coca-Cola contains some extracts of coca leaves, but no cocaine (unless just a very small trace amount). Since it is a trade secret, I guess nobody else knows!

#23

Interested researchers might want to look at "CokeLore".

It seems to be a believable treatment of various aspects of Coca-Cola fact & fiction . . .

#24

I keep hearing supposition that HP will only be producing the lamentable Kinpo-grade calculators here on. This leads me to wondering, who is the manufacturer of the HP-12CP?

#25

More information concerning HP-12C future.

I had a Aurora FN-1000 financial calculator in my hands today. It is being promoted here in Brasil as a HP-12C replacement, by another manufacturer.

It seems to posses all functions from a HP-12c, plus some more - i saw some indecifrable functions on the keyboard.

I programmed a short x-reg increment loop and - wow - it is much (i mean MUCH) faster than the 12c.

Well I could not justify spending $60 just for benchmarking it... Maybe in a couple of days I´ll find a rationalization for that ;-)

Renato


#26

Someone had said that Mal Wart carries the Aurora brand so I bit the bullet and walked into one. They really do have a human greeter, I got smiled and waved at. Too much. I couldn't find any at the one I checked out. Aurora is carried at Kinkos coppies but not the fn1000.

How were the keys on the one that you used? Please let us know if you figure out the extra functions. Even though i don't need a financial calc enough to have one shipped in from S.A., to me it is very hopefull news that one company has brought out a new rpn. If hp keeps on pretending maybe they will bring out a scientific and start selling it here.

Maybe the next dominant technical culture will be china, and the most discerning market - Brazil.


#27

Aurora calculators are quite easy to find in certain little "chinese" stores here in Sao Paulo, but not the FN1000. These are sold in very few small places only.

I had one in my hands the other week and I agrre with Renato on his remarks. I would like to add that the general appearance of the FN1000 is rather poor. Even if the color scheme is not so strange as the HP12CPt, the overall looks is no good. It's too "shiny", you know ? The cover will not shut completely (it's a "clamshell" model).

But the manual is very interesting. Even in a very quick glance, you can notice something the size of the original HP12C manual. Not so well printed, but very different from the printed pages that try to emulate a manual in other Chinese models we are exposed to (including the HP9s and 9G).

The other point that I noticed is about the display. Large digits LCD, much easier to read than the new Chinese HP (( series).

May be if we allow Aurora enough time ...

Jose


#28

The two principal flavors in Coca Cola are cola from the cola nut as in the various cola drinks, and unique to Coca Cola, an extract from the coca leaf. Thus Coca Cola is a double flavored beverage and is different from other colas in more than just a varient cola recipe. originally a small amount of cocaine came with the coca extract. Then the amount of cocaine was reduced, and later eliminated. Today, the entire legal coca leaf import goes to a plant in Saint Louis where the cocaine is extracted for the Pharmaceutical trade. The pulp is then shipped to Coca Cola where the flavor is extracted.

The much vaunted sacred recipe has been changed any number of times over the years. One of the older recipes has found its way into public knowledge.

Old Coke with sugar does have a slightly different flavor than New Coke with corn sweetner.

Also disguised by the hooraw was the disappearance of the glass bottle and a price hike. The glass bottle was the cheapest way to buy the stuff, even if you threw the bottles away and lost the deposit.


#29

There is one other leagal, or semi legal through a loophole, coca leaf import. There is a tiny company in (i think) California that is licensed by some part of the federal government but is prohibited by the state government to import bagged, individually plastic wrapped, and boxed coca leaf tea from Bolivia. As i remember, they import Windsor brand but the biggest brand down there is Hansa.

Besides selling !DRUGS!, Hansa is also Volkswagen of Bolivia. 10 or 15 million people in that part of the world who live at over 12,000 feet above sea level stubbornly continue to drink !THAT DRUG! The president of the country's mother drinks it. This must piss off the American D.E.A. to no end. The tea is about 1000 times too weak to get high on but it does help aleviate the negative affects of altitude. I have chewed it at 22,000 ft and i can swear it works; i only felt as miserable as i would have at 19,000 ft. It is also an effective remidy for a tummy ache.

How does this relate to HP? Hansa is a big company, there must be someone with a 12c.


#30

So what isn't illegal in The People's Demokratik Republik of Kalifornia?

As it happens, at one time I lived in Bolivia, in Santa Cruz down in the flat part. To my regret, I Never got to the high part. But you could buy coca leaves in the market.


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