HP12C for PocketPC



#2

For those that might be interested, spotted this:

http://www.handango.com/PlatformProductDetail.jsp?siteId=311&productId=28741

Looks good. Haven't tried it.


#3

Looks like they also have a 15C emulator as well...

http://www.handango.com/PlatformProductDetail.jsp?siteId=311&productId=49174


#4

Ahh, that's better. The 15C is more my cup of tea. Imagine a $20 bundle with a 15C and 16C. Flip from one to the other with one click and the option of transferring the stack across as you go (with some sort of integer <-> real convention). I think I'd still keep Emu48 loaded. Is this just greed?!

#5

I don't have a real 15C so I'm going by the manual and my experience of the 16C.

My initial observations:

Looks visually stunning. Display is little odd in that the digits don't fill the calc screen horizontally, there's some white space at the right-hand end. I'd have preferred a more faithful rendition of the LCD digits.

Programming doesn't record key matrix co-ords, but alpha mnemonics rather like a 42S, e.g.

001: RCL 1
002: R-DOWN
003: COS

The original 448 byte limit is removed. Don't know what its new limit is.

There are extra annunciators. Not just f and g, but for all the keys that require a subsequent entry, e.g. RCL, GTO, SF, etc.

A test loop

LBL 1
1
+
GTO 1

to compare its speed with my 16C appeared to lock up the PPC. In fact it's just hogging all the CPU time and responds very slowly to the R/S key - almost to the point of being unusable. When I did get the display back, it showed a speed in the loop 130 times faster than my 16C in floating point.

I was initially surprised to do

 1 [ENTER] 3 / 3 *
and get
1.000000000
but that's what the 16C does too so I guess it's OK! Is there a numeric test I can do to see if it copies the 15C's maths exactly rather than some C data type distortion?

#6

1 ENTER 3 / 3 * f PREFIX shows 9999999999 on a 15c but this is 1.000000000 when in FIX 9.

i would be interested in the following calculations.

tan(355/226) radians. the 15c gets -7,507,225.705 (the
real answer is -7497258.185)

also, try this. its bit more involved though...

1 ENTER 3 / then perform the sequence 4 * 1 - repeated 14 times. you will see the .333333's disapear one by one until you finally get, 0.310963712 on a 15c

what i am doing here is bringing in errors by multiplying by two and the machine is decimal. if i multiply by 10 and subtract i get clean zeros. machines that are really binary will get clean zeros from my example, but garbage using 10.
if you are actually using binary arithmetic internally, chances are you will get clean zeros.


#7

Maybe someone could try the calculations described at:
http://www.rskey.org/~mwsebastian/miscprj/forensics.htm

This way you can verify if it is a emulation or a simulation.


#8

The forensics test at the link is:

arcsin(arccos(arctan(tan(cos(sin(9))))))

in degrees. The PPC program gives 9.000417403 the same as the real 15C which makes it even harder to explain the results of hugh's tan test.

#9

I'd forgotten about PREFIX. After 1[ENTER]3/3*[PREFIX] the 15C program shows nine 9's.

tan(355/226) radians give -7,507,219.881

The repeated 4*1- after 1 3/ gives the same answer as a real 15C

So the tan func is a bit different, other two seem faithful.


#10

thanks chris. those results are interesting.
i am thinking that perhaps they really do emulate, or at least use the exact same algorithms. it would be highly difficult to implement a rich set of functions and hit answers bang on - even the ones in slight error!

that makes me think they've taken the logic straight from the 15c roms. incidentally, ive been playing with the palm 12c and it feels like that too. especially since the calculations are a bit slow for such a faster cpu. what is the speed like on the PPC. if native, it should be super fast.

heres my theory of the day for the tan test: some 15c's are different! is this true? im suggesting there were rom revisions internally.


#11

Trying to load the 2 emulators made me try to synch info with my PC and the Jornada 565 I have.

I had done this before, but between then and now, got a replacement Jornada 565 for a warranty problem. I had not tried synching with the replacement Jornada until today.

WinXP at home and W2000 at work do not see the Jornada, using either Activesync 3.1 or 3.5

Naturally, this is 98 days past the arrival of the replacement unit, so if it's a true problem with the Jornada, I'm out of luck.

Any activesync experts out there with some suggestions?

I can copy files to the CF card and then insert it, but for reasons I have not understood, you (usually?) cannot install things into a PPC2002 device except through activesynch.

Waaahh!

Gene


#12

I'm not an expert, but ActiveSync can be a pain sometimes.

You can install without ActiveSync if you copy any .cab file you might find (must be the ARM one if there's a choice) to the PPC and then tap it (on the PPC).

There is an ActiveSync 3.6 on Microsoft's site, but I reckon your problem is more fundamental.

If you want to take this off-list (chris@amlog.co.uk) I'll try to help you.

#13

They list the Jornada 560 series as working with the 15c emulator, but not the 12c. Wonder what's up with that?

I think these look very good, and the price is right!

Gene


#14

Go to this page to see all versions for the PocketPC



http://www.handango.com/PlatformTopSoftware.jsp?siteId=311&jid=88E667C62A7F6AA66639B549158B26X5&platformId=2&title=Lygea&authorId=97945


#15

The Jornada 565 has an ARM processor, but the only PDA PocketPCs listed on the ARM page are IPaQs.

So, I still wonder if it will run on ARM processor PDAs other than the IPaQs?

Gene


#16

I just selected both lines of the URL from my reply above, copied and pasted it into Internet Explorer and it worked fine! Try it again....


#17

What I had meant was your longer URL didn't provide the answer to my question. :-)

The version listed only displays the IPaq's on the ARM version. Not Jornada 560 series. That was my original question. Chris Randle says he has used it, but the Store's specifications must then be incomplete.

#18

Just installed both trial versions (12C & 15C) on to the ARM processored Jornada 568. They both work a treat. I've only played with them for literally 2 minutes but visually they're beautiful.

In the screen shots you can see a red ellipis button. This gives a stack display. On the 12C the Y, Z & T registers appear on the right-hand side of the simulated display in a very neat faint font. On the 15C the whole (PPC) display switches to show X, Y, Z & T along with the contents of the 21 registers RI, R0-9 and R.0-R.9.

Roll on (R-> ??) the 16C version!


#19

I have trial versions of 12C and 15C on a Jornada 548 with SH3 processor. They are so good I might buy them!

#20

no palmOS version tho :-(

does it work by rom emulation? are the roms freely
available to be used commercially like this?

the price is very reasonable.


#21

AFAIK, it is not ROM based because HP-11/12/15/16 ROM wasn't released by HP (sadly). So, it is more a simulator than emulator because real emulators usualy emulate CPU so they need ROM to execute.

#22

Just did a search on Palm Gear and came up with following:

http://www.palmgear.com/software/showsoftware.cfm?sid=12708720030128123635&prodID=42854

I haven't tried it yet, but looks interesting for those of us with Palms.


#23

I´ve been using it for some time. It is very good. The trial period is only 30 days.


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