A Reminder of the Forum's Terms of Use



#22

From my point-of-view, the Prime discussions have devolved into social exchanges that I might expect on Twitter or Facebook.

Until recently, this Forum was a professional place for the exchange of information, ideas, rumors, challenges and other enjoyable topics. Even the ugliest WP34S discussions maintained a level of decorum.

This Forum now seems to be the community of choice for bashing HP and the Prime Team. Frequently beyond what is socially acceptable.

As a reminder, the Forum has a published Terms of Use. To Quote:

Quote:
Users of this site will conduct themselves with responsibility and decorum, and will discuss topics of interest to our community. This should be a fun place to visit and all community members should feel welcome. The topics of these forums, include just about anything listed in the Museum pages. These include HP calculators, early HP computers, general math, calculating machines, computer history, tips on buying, finding, repairing, or using old HPs etc. Off-topic items may be deleted (or not) at the sole discretion of MoHPC.

The Curator provides an even more elegant summary of the Terms of Use:


Quote:
HP Forum Commandments
  1. Thou shalt remember that the vast majority of the posters on this forum are not employees or in any way related to MoHPC or Hewlett Packard, but are unpaid volunteers who donate hours of their time to provide information and assistance out of the goodness of their hearts, and without recompense.
  2. Thou shalt not abuse, insult, harangue, blame, or take your anger out on same when you are experiencing problems, or we don't know the answer to your question.
  3. Thou shalt remember that polite queries will elicit polite and helpful responses, likewise, that ranting and raving, bashing, and insults will prompt commensurate responses. Ye shall reap what ye sow.
  4. Thou shalt remember that MoHPC provides this as a free service and its agents are not required to take bad behavior or insults by virtue of their position.
  5. Thou shalt remember that we love to help out, so please don't be shy and feel free to ask any question regardless of how silly you may feel asking it, and we'll be happy to help.


#23

Quote:

This Forum now seems to be the community of choice for bashing HP and the Prime Team. Frequently beyond what is socially acceptable.




Amen. I've been wondering why on other communities, usually devoted to other calculators, there's much more excitement, experimenting, and sharing (and criticism too of course) about the Prime, than here. Here, I honestly wonder why Tim and Cyrille still participate, seeing as there is so much aggressiveness and bashing...

#24

Quote:
The topics of these forums, include just about anything listed in the Museum pages.

Given that the Prime is not really featured in the Museum's pages, should it be the main topic of discussion? I remember that when I first started attending here I was frustrated at how much WP-34S discussion there was. (Then I got one and wasn't frustrated any more). However that pales in comparison to the Prime discussions.

Given that it is a new platform with active product support, why are these pages the appropriate place for so much Prime discussion when none of that discussion has much to do with what this museum is about?


#25

Everyone is free to use HP's own support forum, or any of the sites or locations where people are talking about it. Convince everyone here that is interested in the discussion to move and the problem is solved. :-)

TW

Edited: 26 Nov 2013, 5:36 p.m.


#26

Tim,

Quick question:

Where does one enter a support request on a product with HP?

Is there a form on HP site's for doing this?

For example, I recently ran into a problem with a software program. I had updated to Android Kit Kat and the program did not work correctly. I went to the developer's web site, entered a Support Ticket in their form, got a response within 24 hours and then received a fix in about one week. At all times, the developer support group kept me posted on the progress by email. He kept the Support Ticket open until I had verified that the problem was fixed. Then he closed the Ticket.

Does HP have a method for logging support questions, following up on them, and then closing them out when fixed?

It seems to me that the Prime is basically a software program running on a piece of hardware. If the hardware is sound, then most problems will be either "User" or an error in the software. If HP would look at it as a software management problem, then a method is required for users to tell HP what problems they are having, method for them to give HP any files, logs, etc, required for HP software team to use for debugging, and issuing of software patches or upgrades.

I'm afraid that HP is looking at this as "Calculator Hardware" and not as a piece of software. These two viewpoint would entail very different support mechanisms.

Bill


#27

>Is there a form on HP site's for doing this?

Not that I am aware of. HP as a company is geared towards hardware and while this has been changing as they move into cloud stuff, that capability is not anywhere I know about for consumer type products. I'm sure it is different for enterprise with support contracts.

TW

Edited: 26 Nov 2013, 6:04 p.m.


#28

Thanks Tim,

Quote:
HP as a company is geared towards hardware

You've confirmed what I thought. Hopefully someday HP will realize that the Prime is "Software" and NOT "Hardware" and that a different style of support is required.

You have commented in another thread:

Quote:
You do seem to be having a ridiculous number of issues compared with the huge majority...

I'm not sure how you can make this statement if there is not a software problem tracking mechanism in place that is generated by all users and not just the users of this forum. Otherwise, you just have a select viewpoint of problems by a select user base and not the general user.

As you have admitted, the "huge majority" has no mechanism to communicate to HP any problems that they may be having. Thus, HP may well be missing out on what problems the "huge majority" is experiencing.

I'm making the assumption that the quantity of Prime calculators purchased by the HPMuseum forum members is a minority of the actual total sold. While the members here may well exercise the calculator in more exotic ways than the average user, the average user is really who will make the product successful or not.

While the HPMuseum forum is a great way for you to understand what problems this select group of users are experiencing, there also needs to be a mechanism for HP to track what problems the average user is having. Once they have done this, then please feel free to state what the "huge majority" is experiencing. Otherwise, it's only a guess.


Bill

Edited: 27 Nov 2013, 8:29 a.m.

#29

Quote:
Everyone is free to use HP's own support forum...

I would prefer to go there but don't because of a certain "speed of sound" contributor. And I can't just ignore him - so to save my blood pressure I prefer to avoid that forum.

#30

:-)

TW

#31

I think Dave is happy to host all manner of conversation about the Prime.

The point of this thread is to encourage civility and not discourage discussion.

Mark Hardman

#32

Quote from the above rules:

"These include HP calculators, early HP computers, general math, calculating machines, computer history, [...]"


So it seems to me that the owner didn't mean to restrict the discussion to featured calculators, but also related topics, even including pure math... And by the way, don't think that in a museum there should be only old things. New, modern things can belong in a museum too (just look at any science museums... :P )

And anyway, this is a rather small community. The amount of posts about the Prime (or about the Wp-34s or whatever) simply means that the users of this place have a lot of interest on the subject. Apparently there's more to talk about the Prime than about older calculators. So, since it's not really off-topic, I think it's normal and OK to have these discussions here...


#33

Quote:
I think it's normal and OK to have these discussions here

No, sorry, it is not.


#34

Well, I'd say that's up to the owner to say. The above mentioned rules seem to state otherwise.
And the majority of users apparently want to discuss the Prime and little else (it's not as if anyone is preventing people from posting about the 41 or 42 or whatever; it's just that no one has much to say about them).

Other than that, we can just agree to disagree! :)


#35

I personally signed here because the most of prime information in google pointed here. Maybe someone can suggest another place?


#36

Quote:
I personally signed here because the most of prime information in google pointed here. Maybe someone can suggest another place?
From the early 1990's until not long ago, the comp.sys.hp48 Usenet newsgroup was the happening place for the most rabid enthusiasts of HP top-of-the-line PPC's*. Over the years, it was agreed that it was ok to use it for more than HP 48 discussions, so most HP 49/50 chatter was seen there too. But now it is almost stagnant. Unlike here, threads remain intact there over long periods of time, and searching is not divided between recent and archived postings. So comp.sys.hp48 is one possible alternative for Prime discussions and program listings.

* Programmable Pocket Calculator, first called a "PPC" by Craig Pearce in "65 Notes" (later called the "PPC Journal") in 1976.

#37

I know yourself know about them, but for other readers: Tim Wessman mentioned several others above: AdictosHP, Omnimaga, TI-Planet, to which one could add Cemetech, to a lesser extent.

The latter three are primarily oriented towards TI calculators, but we're no fanboys. Good technology on a relatively open platform, even if the Prime is currently young and bug-ridden (the Nspire is closed and has its share of bugs) deserves attention :)



The hpwiki hosted under the tiplanet.org domain contains information found nowhere else. For instance, information about:

  • linking protocols (especially the fake MSD mode used for firmware reflashing, as information about the regular HID file transfer mode is available within the portable libhpcalcs toolkit);
  • information about a successful modification of the Prime's firmware by third parties (working, simple proof of concept).
(it's weird this kind of work was not performed by the traditionally HP community long before the traditionally TI community performed it. That said, to end users of Prime calculators, the fact that it was done, in the open, is more important than who did it)
#38

At the time they came out, there seems to have been some discussion about such as the HP 49, HP50, etc.

#39

Quote:
I remember that when I first started attending here I was frustrated at how much WP-34S discussion there was. (Then I got one and wasn't frustrated any more). However that pales in comparison to the Prime discussions.

Certainly not. For *month*, maybe a year, the wp34s topics dominated this forum, and in the c(o)urse of it, we've seen slander between regular contributors and long-time users going away.

In the light of this, the prime topics are still in their infancy.


#40

Quote:
For *month((s!))*, maybe a year, the wp34s topics dominated this forum, and in the c(o)urse of it, we've seen slander between regular contributors and long-time users going away.

The forum is generally dominated by news. Whoever launches new stuff will get a big share here. Well ... ummh ... it wasn't our fault that HP didn't compete so long ;-), was it? And it isn't our fault that we've shown faster reaction times so far, is it?
Quote:
In the light of this, the prime topics are still in their infancy.

I hope not. I hope it for HP.

([:-/

#41

Quote:
This Forum now seems to be the community of choice for bashing HP and the Prime Team. Frequently beyond what is socially acceptable.

As it was before with the 35s and the 15C LE, btw.

If these *few* people (including me) just go away or don't contribute to these topics, there will be a unpleasant bias towards fanboyism as seen on other forums, where users complaining quickly get kicked out.

The language chosen is a personal choice. Can't see any outliers from the range of acceptable contributions.

#42

AFAICS, the root cause of a lot of Prime comments is plain disappointment. Personally, I don't own a Prime for reasons explained here earlier but I can understand why those early buyers and contributors are upset. I read those comments as evidence for the present HP way (remember the book?).

And as much as I'm bored by Prime threads ad nauseam I guess they will continue until a corrected (not only improved) firmware will be available. BTW, I don't see more angry language now than at times when the HP-35S was unveiled but YMMV.

Although it's natural the past tends to appear golden (as people say) and of course earlier products were generally less complex (but were at the edge of their time) - if HP would have followed a similar market approach in the Seventies I doubt it would have reached the level of fame in the world of calculators it obviously did. Please read what is printed at the top of page 5 of the WP 34S Owner's Manual to learn about the driving force of HP in it's heighdays - maybe worth reconsidering. Sometimes it's the task of a community to remind a company of its heritage IMHO.

Just my 20m€

d:-/


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