HP: Dump the predefined variables!



#2

Please!

And dump the Home-View. If i need numerical results i press Shift-Enter in CAS.

The dilemma beginns with two different views.


#3

This Message was deleted. This empty message preserves the threading when a post with followup(s) is deleted. If all followups have been removed, the original poster may delete this post again to make this placeholder disappear.


#4

Then long-live the Droid48 app ! I've got my .apk file tucked away in a dropbox folder for safe keeping. HP has my money for the Prime... and I'm fortuante enough that I can put it on the shelf and wait for things to get better.

Nothing personal intended against HP personnel here... but I just cannot invest this much time learning to work around this machine.


#5

Since apparently I deleted the post rather then edit it, I'll try to remember what it was and post here. This is not directed at the OP.

>Dump the predefined variables

I doubt this will happen. There are definitely plenty of strong reasons why these are desirable for certain types of users. Simply creating a 50g clone or very similar system will not solve many of the issues which Prime was created to address.

>And dump the Home-View.

I don't think the problem is the concept, but rather the edge interactions. There are plenty of people that have complained about the 49 series having the CAS stick its nose in when not desired. I agree there needs to be additional work here to make things work better for users that don't follow the general workflow now supported.

I suspect a large number of people would just as well get rid of the CAS completely since they never use it and it is a waste of space.

There is a whole wide range of ways to treat variables or content. The 48 series has the design that the user is responsible for managing it completely. If you don't understand it, then too bad. There is a huge number of people that don't want to need to understand the underpinings of a system to use it. Hence the current way things head with phone os systems and computers in general.

The nspire took the route of trying to stick everything into a "document" structure. That has its own sets of issues and makes a lot of problems for power users.

Older high school calcs tried the "don't allow any variables".

I agree that work needs to be done, especially to make Prime work better for the power users that do like to hang out and do things like talk about calculators for fun. Saying though "it should act just like the 50g" though really seems to be rather simplified to the point of ignoring whole other classes of issues.

TW

Edited: 19 Nov 2013, 2:14 p.m.

#6

Tim, i have read your deleted post and my answer is:

Theory is one thing, practice is the other thing. So in your opinion not the Prime is the problem but the user.

I have two questions for you:

1. Are you a new user/educator or and HP Prime insider?

2. Have you ever presented the HP Prime in front of educators and get a feedback of them?


You are the boss but i'm the practitioner.

Here we can see the worldwide dilemma of engineering and marketing. Three people understand the user: William, David and ... Steve.


PS: TI hold 90% of the market. Without a Home-View and without much predefined variables!


Sorry for my post, sorry for my words, sorry for my opinion, sorry for my inspiration and sorry for my enthusiasm.


#7

Whoa! Definitely did not mean to delete that. I was clarifying something and must have clicked the wrong button. I've reposted the deleted variable up above.

>Theory is one thing, practice is the other thing. So in your opinion not the Prime is the problem but the user.

Not at all. What my post was attempting to illustrate is that simply saying "remove the predefined variables" may help some issues, but will create another set.

The core issue between home/cas is the interactions between them - not the concept itself.

>1. Are you a new user/educator or and HP Prime insider?

Not understanding the question here.

>2. Have you ever presented the HP Prime in front of educators and get a feedback of them?

Most definitely and quite extensively. Having a set of predefined variables that contain a certain type is hugely helpful for many users and is part of the problem a large number of educators have with things like the nspire. The separation of the CAS is also something that has been received very well for a a variety of reasons.

Like I said, the issue is not the concept but rather the edge interactions and there definitely needs more work and improvement there.

You may feel that having nothing but the CAS would be the best decision. However, I bet a large number of other users would prefer the CAS could be completely deleted and never seen since they always do only purely numerical calculations.


TW

Edited: 19 Nov 2013, 2:18 p.m. after one or more responses were posted


#8

In a nutshell, would it be possible for the Prime to use variables other than A,B,C... as reserved, numeric-only variables? Most of my troubles would vanish into thin air if this were possible. It's obviously possible... just some coding?


#9

Yes, of course that could be done. It would impact a lot of things though and I believe it would need to be a part of a much more comprehensive solution to really make sense.

Trust me, nobody is ignoring the concerns and feedback being given by anyone, let alone our most enthusiastic customers. It will just take some time.

TW


#10

Thank you.

And the keyboard... I can read my HP 50g at arms length with either my right or left eye. Perfectly. You can glance at it quickly and see it perfectly. I literally have to go over to the window to get enough light to make out some of the Prime keys. When showing the keyboard to my daughter, it is difficult to get the lighting at the correct angle where two people can see the buttons clearly at the same time. You have to pass the calc back and forth to both get a look.


#11

Can I get away with saying, "You're looking at it wrong?"? ;-P

TW

Edited: 19 Nov 2013, 2:44 p.m.


#12

I KNEW Steve J. was still alive! I never believed the headlines... how much did HP have to pay to get him to jump ship?

#13

To be honest, I must recognize that the former keyboard issues I experienced the first days I used my Prime are now almost gone.
Knowing that the major issue is concerning the numerical (grey) keys, I now know by heart where each blue labelled function is located, and have memorized the Shift + N related combination of keys.
This is now for me rather a cosmetic issue than an actual "where is this function located on the keyboard" one.
The same way, I had problems to distinguish ":" and ";", but all of this is now history after just a couple of days of use.
I guess most of the people don't need to look at the keys of their TV remote control once they used it for enough time... and it's a good thing because on most of them, printings vanish very fast !
Just my two cents of Euro.

#14

In my opinion the problem is that the HP Prime is a HP39gii (or HP40gs or HP38g from 1995) adapted with XCAS from B. Parisse. And here beginns the trouble. Why haven't you take the modern XCAS from B. Parisse (which have all required features: CAS, Spreadsheet, Graph-Apps, 2D-geometry and now attention: 3D-geometry and they all CAST IN ONE POUR - on single source) and ported this sophisticated software on HP Prime hardware? And all would working just fine like clockwork.

So in my opinion XCAS should be the center, the heart of Prime. All other things should be adopted around them.


PS: I have your previous posting. If you want i can repost it.


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