Where is the HP Prime User Guide?

[Steve S]

Just received my Prime from Amazon and am working my way through the "Quick Start" guide. In numerous places, the Quick Start Guide references the "Users Guide," but I can't find it. It isn't on the CD included with the prime, and I haven't been able to find it on HP.com. What am I missing, here...???

[Michael de Estrada]

Well, according to the HP website, it's supposed to be on the CD along with the connectivity software. Maybe Tim will chime in to provide some help.

[Steve S]

Explored the CD. There is a folder of Quick Start manuals in a variety of languages, but that seems to be it. No Users Guide that I could find...

[Richard Garner]

A User Guide is provided in the emulator installation software. Is that anywhere on the disk? If not you could download that and install it to get the User Guide.

[Tim Wessman]

Yes, the emulator installs a slightly older manual then the link I posted below. I think the size went up by about 600kb of content between those two versions.

TW

[Steve S]

Just for the record, opened the emulator (provided on the CD with my Prime) and found a Quick Start Guide, but no User Guide.

Perhaps earlier versions were structured differently?

[Mark Storkamp]

If you have to install the emulator to get the manual off of the CD, as it seems you are saying, then is there a version of the emulator for Mac OS X included?

[Tim Wessman]

Here you go. http://h30499.www3.hp.com/hpeb/attachments/hpeb/bsc-408/13750/1/HP_Prime_User_Guide_EN.pdf

This is the "final" version for first release and is newer then what is packaged in the emulator on the CD. Discs generally have at fairly long lead time to make it inside a package.

TW

Edited: 18 Sept 2013, 11:11 p.m.

[Steve S]

Tim, thanks for your help, but the link doesn't seem to want to open. IE just sits there and grinds...

Will try again, however!

[Bruce Bergman]

Do a right-click "Save link as..." instead.

[Steve S]

That worked!

Tim and Bruce, thanks for the assistance. So far, I'm pretty impressed with the Prime...!

[Tim Wessman]

Just know there is an IE joke hidden in there somewhere... ;-P

It is posted on an HP forum. Maybe you can just go there and look at my post with the download there instead...

http://h30499.www3.hp.com/t5/Calculators/The-future-is-realized-Gen5-arrives/td-p/6204209#.Ujpxd7zWaSU

TW

Edited: 18 Sept 2013, 11:38 p.m.

[Michael de Estrada]

Or he can dump IE and get Google Chrome. It worked just fine for me and automatically invokes the Adobe file saver.

[Bruce Bergman]

That WAS Google Chrome. I haven't used IE in years... :-)

[Jean-Michel]

Hello Tim
Replacing "_EN" by "_FR" in the link you provided does not download a FRENCH version of the User's Guide, but the English one...
Help much appreciated.
Kind regards.

[Dieter]

I tried the obvious as well and replaced _EN with _DE, expecting a German manual. But the result was the same: all I got was the English version.

BTW, Tim: who does the translations at HP? Are there native speakers of the various languages with at least some basic knowledge in mathematics and/or programming?

Dieter

[Software49g]

AFAIK the German translations of the horrible manual(s) for the HP 50g
were done by Chinese translators [sic]!



And, AFAIK, all over time submitted German corrections (for various
products) have been rejected by HP.



Instead of a correct translation by a native speaker HP prefers the
translation of someone with a certificate, regardless of his/her
knowledge of the language.



Now this in fact really is German behaviour - where a title is
often more important than knowledge, especially for politicians

(as you remember Karl-Theodor zu Guttenberg, Silvana Koch-Mehrin,
Jorgo Chatzimarkakis et al.)



So hold your breathe whether this has changed or not ;-)



Regards,

Andreas

http://www.software49g.gmxhome.de

Edited: 19 Sept 2013, 6:44 a.m.

[Pier Aiello]

Quote:

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Now this in fact really is German behaviour - where a title is
often more important than knowledge.

---

I think that it is true for several countries in the world. The contradiction is that a title is only a certificate of knowledge, but if the certifier is unreliable the whole procedure is useless.

Edited: 19 Sept 2013, 8:08 a.m.

[CompSystems]

My review

http://www.adictoshp.org/topic/443-hp-prime-manual-de-la-hp-prime-actualizado-ingl%C3%A9s/

for when the advanced user guide?

Edited: 19 Sept 2013, 10:29 a.m.

[Chris Tvergard]

It is inherently risky to translate as one may inadvertently be subject to unintentional mistranslations. This could harm one's reputation in that language group. I certainly do not mean any disrespect to any other language group but just how many scientists and business people using computers today do not have a working knowledge of English? I would not myself provide translations.

Chris

[Software49g]

You are talking about a unit that is targeted to education.



I doubt that pupils / students from <insert your country here>

learning mathematics must/should understand English for that.



Although I believe that I am able to make a conservation in

English and hope that I am fluent enough in written English

I *do* struggle in mathematical terms and *do* need a

dictionary for it once in a while.



I, for myself, do not buy a product that does not provide at

least a decent German manual, for various reasons. One of

them is respect towards the customer.



And my computers at work and at home are running in German.



Reading scientific publications is a completely different thing.

In this case I do prefer the original language, although it is

helpful to have a German translation at hand.



For your entertainment I am quoting the joke of a young

American from my last Trans-Atlantic flight:

“There are people talking three languages, they are called tri-lingual.

There are people talking two languages, they are called bi-lingual.

And there are people talking one language, they are called Americans.”



Languages are cultural richness.



Have a nice weekend,

Andreas

http://www.software49g.gmxhome.de

Edited: 19 Sept 2013, 6:10 p.m.

[Chris Tvergard]

Andreas,

Thanks for your opinion. Just how many countries do not teach English in school at an age relevant to computer and math use (like in your country? Your English seems near perfect to me). And using these devices to learn English and math at the same time is only an added advantage in preparation for their entry into the world scene where English is the factual international standard. The costs and synchronizations of multiple language manuals is an added cost item that may not give enough return by selling more units. Making devices is after all a business and one often goes for 80 percent of the market or so. Obviously I can only speak for my own business as I am in no way connected to the device maker in question. The success and continuation of the product we are talking about will to a large extent depend on keeping the production lean. So far, in my opinion, Tim et. al. are making all the right moves.

Yours,
Chris

[Marcus von Cube, Germany]

In the EU it is mandatory to provide a manual in the language of the country the merchandise is intended to be sold in. I guess the "Quick Start Guide" is sufficient in this respect.

In German schools, English education and math & science are kept strictly separate. When I left school with my Abitur in my pocket I didn't even know the English words for common scientific and mathematical terms. That didn't help much at University where many books wee only available in English... In other words: If you want to reach the German educational market, all written material needs to be available in German!

[Thomas Klemm]

Quote:

---

I didn't even know the English words for common scientific and mathematical terms

---

It took me too long to figure out the meaning of eigenvalue.

Cheers

Thomas

[Chris Tvergard]

Thomas,

So what is the Swiss/German word for eigenvalue?

Chris

[Thomas Klemm]

German: Eigenwert

Swiss-Gernan: Aigewärt (but that's not written)

Honestly, I was surprised to find German words (or parts of it) in English mathematical expressions. I assume they come from a time when German (or Swiss) mathematicians were prominent . Too bad a lot of them were killed or had to flee Germany during WW II.

Cheers

Thomas

[Chris Tvergard]

Thomas,

Thanks that is interesting. And yes, very sad. In the case of Einstein some wonder why his best days were while in your country and once over here seemingly "slowed" down. He got older too, though.

Chris

[Chris Tvergard]

Hi Marcus,
Good to hear from you again. Walter's manual for your magnificent WP34S is at the pinnacle of quality. But can you imagine doing such a large investment for each EU country? Plus updates every when? I do understand the EU mechanics behind your language issues, but if I were a vendor I would look for the least costly way out. One thing I do not understand, however, is the resistance (perhaps I am imagining here) by say German parents to having their kids learn English. I would most likely myself (if I were German) buy the English language version rather than the German version in order to facilitate my kids' future competitiveness in both science and business. Another issue is the product costs which can only increase as a consequence. Man, all these taboos. Some won't buy the first edition even if it gives you the edge, some won't buy if the language isn't their own, and so on... And as you say English is kept "strictly" separate from math (for just what purpose?). Why all these self-imposed restrictions in your lives? And here I thought that school was to enrich your lives with knowledge and tolerance! And "if you want to reach the German educational market" ... and if you want your kids to grow up and interface the world they must keep English separate from it all? Wouldn't "immersion" be a more productive way? Anyhow, good to hear from you guys again.
Your freund,
Chris

[Dieter]

Chris, I see your point but I beg to differ.

Quote:

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Just how many countries do not teach English in school at an age relevant to computer and math use. (...) And using these devices to learn English and math at the same time is only an added advantage in preparation for their entry into the world scene where English is the factual international standard.

---

A user manual is intended to enable the user to handle the device correctly. Not to teach him/her a foreign language, including English. The average German/French/Italian... student may know that a square is an even shape with four sides and corners, that trees have roots and power is something that is rated in Watts, but what does he/she know about English mathematical terms? Not even HP does so. They do not even know common terms like the German word for logarithm (Logarithmus - that was easy). Proof: HP35s manual with a hilarious paragraph on "logs". #-) So why should one expect this from the user?

Let's assume you own a German digital camera, e.g. a Leica M or S. Set the menu to German and read the German version of the manual that comes with it. Do you think the average photographer knows the meaning of Weißabgleichsfeineinstellung or Belichtungsmesswertspeicher ?-) No? Why should a German/French/Italian/... Prime user have to know the meaning of explicitly-defined sequences or what an linear explorer app might be?

There are good reasons why products that are distributed in the European Union must come with a manual in the language(s) of the country they are sold in. I would consider this a matter of course for any technical product of a certain level.

Dieter

Edited: 21 Sept 2013, 12:15 p.m.

[Chris Tvergard]

Dieter,

Good to hear from you again. And thanks for your great response. From my point of view I believe the consumer should decide to buy a product as-is or not; government has no such business! Your argument is strong: students don't have enough foreign language abilities at that age. But that assumes your are right about the knowledge assumption. When do kids in your country begin to learn English, and then for how long have they been such exposed by the time they study say calculus?

Is it possible that politics are subconsciously underlying our discussion? The EU wants integration, but it seems to me like it always has to be the other guy who does the integration. The EU apparently doesn't even have a common language yet and it seems that member states set up language barriers all over in order to protect themselves. In the old days Europe dug trenches until your army walked around them giving way to language trenches instead. Anything new over there?

Dieter, I hugely enjoy this Forum. There are so many talented people here, you and many of your countrymen in particular. You give me great exclusive cultural "gedanken" insights.

Many thanks,

Chris

PS: Why shouldn't a manual have the added purpose of teaching their future de facto language as well? It seems like your culture likes pure one-at-a-time concepts and multipurpose investments in your time are seen as "unclean"? Am I right? Isn't this never ending subdivision of every possible concept hugely inefficient?

[Dieter]

Thank you for your kind words. I would like to summarize my point of view this way:

I do not think the user of a technical product should be expected to have skills in a foreign language that cover even special terms. A French or English photographer should not be required to know what "Weissabgleichsfeinkorrektur" means if his Leica camera only came with a German manual and/or menu language setting. He/she should know what "white balance fine adjustment" means, but the foreign language term should not be required. Even if he/she might read German quite well, special terms like this can not be expected from the average or even professional user. Let alone from students who just received their new HP Prime calculator.

In most German schools, English is introduced in the 5th grade, sometimes even earlier. So at the time when students have to deal with calculus and linear algebra, they will easily understand an English text by Ernest Hemingway or William Golding, but you cannot expect them to know the meaning of something like "explicitly-defined sequences" or special mathematical terms. They understand the common meaning of "root" and "power", but not the mathematical sense behind these words.

Kind regards,

Dieter

[Chris Tvergard]

Dieter,

I have to admit that you give very compelling arguments against mine. And I have to say that your English grammar is perfect as well. I have no such competency in your language regrettably. You are apparently a person who values quality which makes us very alike. From a few posts by your countrymen one may conclude or shall I say I will postulate: German youth are not necessarily benefitting from your system as anticipated, as they admit having problems as young adults in this particular linguistic area.

We have thus three issues: (I) shall one be required to produce German manuals for sales in Germany, (II) shall school children be taught foreign languages separately from math, and (III) is there a measuring rod applicable to our divergent views.

(I) I understand the German & EU requirements, but I disagree with the requirement being mandatory. The German people should be allowed to buy a product which is say in English only. The marketplace will regulate itself. If there are enough German only customers they will accommodate the market. The catch is that some products may never arrive in Germany as the makers have enough sales elsewhere and many Germans will buy it from England or on-line directly. Thus the requirement may actually backfire by excluding yourselves from non German innovation.

(II) The way you teach language and math strictly separate is inefficient from my point of view. By teaching that way you will cover way too much ground on both sides, leaving much learning of no use later on. By narrowing the scopes (via science and technical papers in say English) from the beginning you will focus on what is in use later.

(III) The lack of a measuring rod for which way (in II) is best will force us to simply admit that we disagree. I tried to look up under educational psychology any experiments that could help us out. I am probably not conceptualizing myself correctly because my results were negative.

I greatly appreciate this unique insight into your cultural behaviors and value systems.

Yours,

Chris

[CompSystems]

Andreas dice

For your entertainment I am quoting the joke of a young
American from my last Trans-Atlantic flight:
“There are people talking three languages, they are called tri-lingual.
There are people talking two languages, they are called bi-lingual.
And there are people talking one language, they are called Americans.”

Traducción por google

Para su entretenimiento cito la broma de un joven
Americana de mi último vuelo transatlántico:
"Hay gente que habla tres idiomas, se les llama tri-lingues.
Hay personas que hablan dos idiomas, se les llama bi-lingues.
Y hay gente que habla un idioma, se llaman, Americanos"(de toda américa o solo de USA?)

////

Eso es verdad en un alto %, pero esta cambiando, en las universidades de mi ciudad me asombro cuando veo a estudiantes hablar en ingles, en mi tiempo hace 20 años, eso solo era posible si eran extranjeros

PD: Una gringa muy linda que habla muy bien español y dice que lo aprendió en solo 7 meses

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkFi039aS5E

Ella dice en mi pais (USA) nadie sabe otro idioma ...

Yo si solo se un idioma :(

Edited: 20 Sept 2013, 3:30 p.m.

[Marcus von Cube, Germany]

Here is a really bad example in French. Enjoy!

[Chris Tvergard]

Marcus,

Nice pic! So why would the Spanish, Italian, Greek, German, and other language "police" inductees not buy this product? Sure it is efficient, but its language sucks? Are you kidding me? What kind of a business plan is that?

Chris

Edited: 20 Sept 2013, 10:55 a.m.