Is the HP-35S bug free?



#24

Hello all,

Some time ago, at least half a year, there were threads about both the 33S and, most prominently, the 35S programming and calculation/algorithm bugs. Although the 33S is no longer available but the 35S is, has HP resolved the bugs which were discussed here?


#25

I don't believe that any of the bugs have been addressed. The only way to know for sure would be to buy a new device and check for them. I'm not going to waste any money doing this.

- Pauli

#26

These are both bug free and risk free :-)


#27

So, I guess HP got the message and got their act together and doctored up the 35S. Good news!!

Edited: 30 June 2013, 7:06 p.m.


#28

You deserve to own both of them.......

#29

I wouldn't go as far as bug free even though there are no known bugs at present in the v3 firmware.


- Pauli


#30

Thanks for the clarification. Which makes me wonder...why did HP drop the 33S?

Edited: 30 June 2013, 7:28 p.m.


#31

Quote:
Thanks for the clarification. Which makes me wonder...why did HP drop the 33S?




Well aside from the fact that it is one of the ugliest calculators ever designed....


I think the biggest reason is that with the introduction of the "improved" HP-35S, there was no longer a perceived need by HP management to sell the 33S. As far as why the bugs have not been fixed in the HP-35S, I don't think HP budgeted for software fixes when they green lighted the 35S.

#32

Whoa!! I'm confused here. If the 35S hasn't been revised to remedy the bugs, what's the 'improvement'?


#33

It was released 35 years after the HP 35, hence the name. But I suspect HP does not think there's any market for an RPN scientific, which is why we've seen no updates or new RPN scientific calculators since 2007. It's likely still produced because the 33S and 35S are the only RPN calculators allowed on the FE/PE exams in the US.

#34

The HP-35S has the following improvements (aside from cosmetic and improved keyboard feel) over the HP-33S:

* The HP 35s allows both label and line number addressing in programs. The HP 33s had only label addressing. With only 26 labels, it was difficult to write programs making use of the entire 30KB of memory.

* The memory in the HP 35s is also usable for data storage, in the form of an extra 801 numbered memory registers.

* Support for vector operations is new in the HP 35s.

* No arbitrary limit to length of equations (the 33s had a limit of 255 characters).



I can't find it right now but Tim Wessman wrote a brief explanation of how the 33S and 35S came to be designed, why they ended up with flaws and why they were not fixed.


#35

So, as I understand it, between the 35S from several years ago and the ones available today, there are no bug fixes (which was/is the intent of my initial question). The 'improvements' to which I was referring to are rather nil. But, the 'improvements' to which this thread was leading are only with regards to those of 35S over the 33S.

So, sorry for the miscommunication but, as I can tell, from what you've all been referring to, there are no firmware fixes from the 35S of years ago with its buggy algorithms and program looping glitches to today's 35S. Right?

Edited: 30 June 2013, 10:53 p.m.


#36

Quote:
So, sorry for the miscommunication but, as I can tell, from what you've all been referring to, there are no firmware fixes from the 35S of years ago with its buggy algorithms and program looping glitches to today's 35S. Right?

AFAIK: Yes. That's business nowadays.

d:-/

#37

Quote:
So, sorry for the miscommunication but, as I can tell, from what you've all been referring to, there are no firmware fixes from the 35S of years ago with its buggy algorithms and program looping glitches to today's 35S. Right?



AFAIK, none of the issues identified in the following HP-35S Bug List have ever been fixed.

HP-35S Bug List

#38

Thanks and thanks!!

Thanks for the full clarification and thank you for bearing with my questions

Much appreciated.

#39

Quote:


I can't find it right now but Tim Wessman wrote a brief explanation of how the 33S and 35S came to be designed, why they ended up with flaws and why they were not fixed.



IIRC Tim's explanation was that the HP35s had been developed by an outside company to meet an HP specification. Which it apparently did, despite bugs being revealed subsequently. The code remained the property of the developer, and so HP had (and has) no way to update it. I think Tim indicated that such a path would not be followed again.

#40

The post by Tim is here

http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/archv020.cgi?read=191740


#41

Well that is a nice long thread...

Come to HHC, you can ask about this and more! :-) </shameless advertisement>

TW

#42

What about the bugs in the 15c-LE firmware? Those are potentially user-fixable by re-flashing, yet no firmware update has been released (please DO correct me if I'm wrong!). Is HP caught in intellectual property land-of-doom (by having outsourced) in the case of the 15c-LE as well???

Eduardo

PS: Sorry for hijacking the 35S thread, but discussing this 15c-LE topic seems appropriate enough.

Quote:



IIRC Tim's explanation was that the HP35s had been developed by an outside company to meet an HP specification. Which it apparently did, despite bugs being revealed subsequently. The code remained the property of the developer, and so HP had (and has) no way to update it. I think Tim indicated that such a path would not be followed again.



#43

I have no inside information so the following is speculation on my part.

I suspect the management at HP has decided that the bugs in the 15C LE are not significant enough to warrant the expense and support costs of fixing them in the field. Even fixing the bugs (which are in the emulation software layer) and releasing the updated firmware has a lot of potential downfalls for HP. The cost of the special download cable, the complex update procedure and customer support costs for failed updates really prevent this from being an end user applied update. The costs involved with a recall to update each HP-15C LE are very significant. In the end, I suspect HP could not justify the costs involved.

#44

Quote:
there are no known bugs at present in the v3 firmware.

The LINEQS bug is not fixed as of 3425. Or is it not known? Or not a bug?


Edited: 1 July 2013, 2:44 p.m.


#45

Andrew,

I did my best to resolve the issue. Have you tested it again? It was a problem with the available size of the C stack when the temporary matrices and arrays are allocated in the linear equation solver. The display of an error message was just too much for the remaining memory thus clobbering some status info which caused all kind of strange behavior.

#46

I wouls say that "the HP-35S bug" is free indeed (or "the HP-35S bugs" are free), because it seems that nobody went after them, or otherwise chased them, in the last five years!

Please disregard any idiomatic mistake.


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