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HP 9G and HP 9S
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Post: #3
11-16-2002, 10:50 PM
 Hi; as far as I was recently told (too much coincidence), the two new ones would be HP9 with an identification letter. You bet these are the ones announced in London. Th HP9G has graphics, is programmable and HP claims that "it works on a variety of system modes" (????) I think this is a good reading, too. Cheers.
Post: #4
11-16-2002, 11:32 PM
It looks like they used the same company that made the 30S for them :(, but hopefully they've put RPN in there. The promising clue is from their bullet point on the 9S: "Works in a variety of system modes" ▼
Post: #5
11-17-2002, 01:31 AM
Hi I've been wondering about it, too; I tried to reason about ALGEBRAIC or RPN or RPL or whatever, but system modes may refer to Binary, Octal, Degrees, Radians, programming, graphics... all of these modes are valid system modes, right? I think variety of operating modes would be the stuff I'd like to read. The shape identifies an HP30S, indeed; and the replaceable covers that would last longer are probably the same fashion we find in the HP30S. Well, let's celebrate! RPN is back, and whatever we have now, it is a brand-new RPN machine. I'll try writing books about it, ask people to try to use RPN and, who knows, we may offer another possibility for reasoning about solutions... as we, once, had. Cheers.
Post: #6
11-17-2002, 04:52 AM
It probably is. At the HPCC conference in London **vp
Post: #7
11-17-2002, 11:04 AM
Please note that the HP30S is algebraic, despite the ENTER key it has... The "many system modes" phrase applies to the 9S / 9G, but also the 30S had four "modes": 1) HOME (default) 2) STAT 3) Linear, 2x2 equation system mode 4) Quadratic equation solver mode In fact, the LCD had annunciators for such modes. Some puzzling captions in HP Calculator web pages about the new models, like "Programmable: Put in your own data" are not the best to encourage us ... On the other hand (possible pun), models evolved from the 30S may not be that bad; at least we may be able to use them, preventing risks and wear to the older, venerable models we will leave safe at home. ▼
Post: #8
11-17-2002, 12:30 PM
IMHO, if HP9S is not an RPN calculator, or does not at least have an RPN mode, what difference would it make to a HP6/6S, or any other today's ten dollars scientific calculator.
Post: #11
11-17-2002, 09:50 PM
From what I can tell, there is a "PROG" button so there may be some true programmability on the 9G. I was trying to determine from the image whether there was some ability to enter individual letters and it looks like there may be some sort of "LOCK" label so that could indicate ability to enter letters. Anyway, enough of the speculation ...
I think the funniest line [for the 9S] is I suspect they are referring to the 4 modes, but my first thoughts upon reading this were: Wow, it can handle addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division. After all it is amazing how many problems you can solve with these four basic operations. :) ▼
Post: #12
11-17-2002, 11:00 PM
Hi; after filtering the HP9G image a bit, you can see the alphabet starts in the second row and >=, <=, > and < operators can be distinguished over [4], [5], [1] and [2], say, IF structure is available and it does make sense only in math expressions or programming. But the [M+] key scares me a bit... (beside [1] key) Well, I think HP called our attention. We're turning our eyes to the low-definition photos of their most recent calculators and forward discussing their unknown resources... I'd rather having a high-resolution photo and their owner's manual in PDF format to download. Cheers.
Post: #13
11-17-2002, 12:50 PM
...if you look on the page linking to the HP-9S and 9G: http://staging.porternovelli.com/sanfrancisco/preview/hpcalc1/ It states at the bottom that the 9S and 9G are entry-level products, where above (in the paragraph New Products and Promotions) it states the HP-30S is a mid-range product. I don't believe that they would put RPN in an entry level product and not in a mid-level product. I think our only hope is to hold out for what they call their "high-range" product. Tony David Potter ▼
Post: #14
11-17-2002, 01:19 PM
RPN calcs designed for students of 10-16 yo? I wish but the market doesn't believe these ones can do *any* effort. ("...easy to see the problem and then Raul ▼
Post: #15
11-17-2002, 05:00 PM
At least, I have a 18 year old daughter who is about to enter university for an engineering degree, and she is as dependent on RPN as I am. She has a 32Sii, and I bought her a spare 32Sii just before they disappear from the shelves... ▼
Post: #16
11-17-2002, 07:55 PM
Hi, Andrés; I intend showing my daughter how do RPN calculators works and, if I get success, I hope she will use it, too (she is 10 Y.O. now). But let's face one thing: for as long as math teachers write expressions like 2+3X4 and solv them in the black board like this 2 they are teaching that an RPN-like notation is used to find answers to algebraic expressions. Best regards. ▼
Post: #17
11-18-2002, 09:20 AM
Perhaps a "language problem" does not let me know what you mean... but math's teachers don't solve in that way algebraic expresions. At least not me. ▼
Post: #18
11-18-2002, 10:09 AM
Hi; maybe I'm not posting exactly what I tried to, but I learnt arithmetic that way: putting numbers in a stack fashion so I could add, subtract and multiply. Dividing two numbers is accomplished by a series of multiplications and divisions, so the stack fashion arithmetic is also used. When I wrote: they are teaching that an RPN-like notation is used to find answers to algebraic expressions. maybe I should have written: they are teaching that an RPN-like notation is used to find answers to numeric expressions. Is that what you mean? As a teacher (and English learner) I'd like posting messages in the best way. I just want to know what is wrong: the concept itself or its expression. Thank you and best regards.
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Post: #19
11-18-2002, 11:35 AM
Hi Luiz, In much of the literature including manuals that came with the RPN calculators, HP would present just this sort of "vertical" calculation arrangement and associate it with the numbers on the stack during an analogous calculation on the calculator. I frequently do calculations "vertically" in my algebra classes. The issue was probably not with the "vertical" calculation arrangement, but that the steps you showed in the posting were for (2+3)*4 rather than 2+3*4. I'm just guessing. ▼
Post: #20
11-18-2002, 11:52 AM
And you guessed, rsenzer: 2+3*4 is not 20, but 16. That's what I mean in my answer.
Regards ▼
Post: #21
11-18-2002, 12:53 PM
And you guessed, rsenzer: 2+3*4 is not 20, but 16. That's what I mean in my answer. Luiz: I'm spanish, and not a good english speaker...I'm not the best english teacher you can get: belive me that when I said "language problem" I was referring to my understanding, not to your expresion. I don't know in Spain but here in Italy 2+3*4=14 not 16... ;)
Greetings,
Post: #24
11-18-2002, 11:54 AM
Hi; instead of: "Dividing two numbers is accomplished by a series of multiplications and divisions, so the stack fashion arithmetic is also used." please, read: "Dividing two numbers is accomplished by a series of multiplications and subtractions, so the stack fashion arithmetic is also used." Based on previous posts, I must agree with the fact i wrote the expression in a wrong way: indeed, its (2+3)*4 instead of 2+3*4. Thank you, guys, and forgive-me. Best regards.
Post: #25
11-17-2002, 01:48 PM
... why do you think they are RPN machines ?
True, they do have an ENTER key. But for proper usability
My best guess is they are HP6S-like, and thus, unappealing ▼
Post: #27
11-17-2002, 09:57 PM
I expect that these calculators use a two line system in which the first line is the entered expression and the second represents the evaluation of the expression once it is entered. Essentially equivalent to placing an expression in tick marks on a 48. This is the system that the 30S uses. On the other hand, the 30S along with the 9S and 9G could, arguably, be the best of these types of calculators due to the attention to accuracy inherent in these calculators. Accuracy is a minor detail, largely, ignored by the other major calculator vendors. Still, I wish it had RPN or, at the very least, AOS, as options. It is a sad irony that the message touting the HP-35 as a major breakthrough would be associated with a pair of calculators that, more than likely, do not incorporate RPN.
Post: #28
11-17-2002, 02:06 PM
The current tendency is not any more with the RPN. I want some for proof for example the savage will of the teachers not to yield to it. I was in my time in science section, one saw only by Texas Instruments and his AOS (I started on Ti-57 with LED and I always have it). My daughter is also in this type of die and one defends Casio Graph 100. Moreover the general policy of Hewlett-Packard worries me at the most point. I think that last computer RPN could be well the HP-12c which with the passage would need to be 'relookée'. With good entendor hello. ▼
Post: #29
11-18-2002, 06:10 AM
Hi Emmanuel, Yes, the HP39/40G calculators have an enter key. But they're used to evaluate an expression, like the '=' key on algebraic calculators. Arnold ▼
Post: #30
11-20-2002, 12:16 PM
You raise an interesting point, Arnold. We're used to "ENTER" implying RPN, and "=", well DUH! So placing the ENTER down in the lower-right corner for the 49G allows it to perform double duty, depending upon whether you're running Algebraic or RPN (RPL). Having now blurred the distinction, why not just continue it, let all the calculators use ENTER, and when that pesky reminder of early days (the Golden Days, IMHO), RPN, goes the way of buggy whips & dodos, the original use of ENTER will just be a minor footnote in some history texts. So goes the marketing reasoning (possibly that phrase is an oxymoron :). And to be fair, when dot-matrix displays and RAM to burn allow you to see both the equation and its result at the same time, perhaps register efficiency doesn't have the value / importance that it once had (those wanting to burn me at the stake will have to take a number :). I can argue that the language of mathematics is written in equations, in _equality_, and seeing equations on the blackboard / screen / whatever makes for human efficiency (gestalt) sense, but this is a minor quibble, *we* all like RPN for esthetic reasons as much as efficiency. I believe that we've already seen the last of RPN on low- and mid-range calculators. Whether it continues on high-end (undoubtedly as RPL, like the 49G), that I'm less willing to make a guess, just hope that this pleasing alternative (these, both, RPN & RPL) continues to be around.... ▼
Post: #31
11-21-2002, 04:08 AM
Is this the world of calculators according to Glen Kilpatrick, give us a break mate. Hope you aren't writing any history books.
Post: #32
11-20-2002, 02:15 PM
to get a response from the appropriate people? There are three business listed as the "master distributors" I've called both Jeff Haas and Barbara Nordberg to see if they would have any information, but they haven't returned my messages yet. Has anyone outside North America tried to contact the appropriate distributor to find out any more information? (I'm just a poor high school teacher passing the gospel of RPN to my students.)
Thanks in advance. ▼
Post: #33
11-20-2002, 02:51 PM
Hi, from another poor (, poor) teacher; Yesterday morning I sent an e-mail to Hewlett-Packard Education, Brazil, mentioning that I am interested on supporting Hewlett-Packard calculators by writing books and "teaching" (showing) how to use them. I also mentioned both HP9G and HP9S and added to the e-mail their e-address. No answer so far. Well, they are probably putting themselves in the business... Cheers.
Post: #34
11-20-2002, 06:07 PM
I sent an e-mail to Moravia Consulting on Nov 1st asking if they could recommend a distributor in Brno the Czech Republic (where, by coincidence, MC are also located) who could take my order for a 48G+ and deliver to the Czech Republic. Their web site also said they were resposible for the localization of manuals, so I asked about the availability of a Russian or Czech manual for the 48G. No reply to date. I've had my e-mail translated into Czech and I've sent it again today (20th). See if that fares any better.
Post: #35
11-21-2002, 04:55 AM
Hello, I am writing a little review of hp9g for next HPCC Datafile. Both machines have been left by Spanish distributor and I've got info from Moravia-Consulting. Don't expect much from these machines. Just keep the hope for next year... Regards, J.Manrique ▼
Post: #36
11-21-2002, 08:21 AM
Hi; please, help us solving this doubt: is there any RPN activity related to them? Just disclose this info. Thank you. And best regards. ▼
Post: #37
11-21-2002, 09:16 AM
I second Vieira's request. It's probably the single most important thing about the new 9's to us at the Forum (and would incidentally prove my previouly voiced speculations false, something that would delight me :). Please advise if they do Algebraic, RPN, and/or RPL (maybe that modes is something like what the 49G has). ▼
Post: #38
11-21-2002, 09:54 AM
Hello, Don't expect much from them. Didn't I say it before? hp9g can be programmed, and it is very similar to a casio machine I am comparing with.
Next year we will see more news.
Regards, ▼
Post: #39
11-21-2002, 10:55 AM
Hi; let's hold our breath and ask again: no RPN? I mean, no stack registers, no x<>y, no roll-down and roll-up, no ENTER in the way ENTER applies to stack registers? Ahn? Tell us a bit more, please. Just this: are both HP9 algebraic-only? Thank you again and best regards.
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Post: #40
11-22-2002, 04:54 AM
Yes, no RPN For hp9g you could take a casio fx6300g and see how it works. Of course, hp9g offers some features than this casio, i.e. some menus. And as I said before don't expect these calcs to be the reference, new calculator divison is working in real HP products, I hope. Regards, J.Manrique
Post: #41
11-21-2002, 04:06 PM
J. Manrique, Have you actually had your hands on one of these calculators? If so, I think the question of these assembled masses is whether or not the "enter" key functions like the enter key on regular RPN calculators (like the '32, 42, etc.) A simple yes-or-no answer will break (or make) many hearts. I was fooled into buying a '30 two years ago because it had an "enter" key - inside the box where I could not push it myself to see what happened - until I spent $15 and took it home to learn the sad truth. ▼
Post: #42
11-21-2002, 05:43 PM
"...I was fooled into buying a '30 two years ago because it had an "enter" key - inside the box where I could not push it myself to see what happened - until I spent $15 and took it home to learn the sad truth..." I think you would make the same experience with the 9x . Don't forget: at least the 9g is based on the 30S
Post: #43
11-21-2002, 05:09 PM
Here is the sad reality for ALL of US. Hp’s marketing is now in charge. They have given us the Hp6s, Hp30s and the Hp39G/40G and Hp49G. Why aren’t these calculators more popular? The reason was obvious, CHEAP SPONGY RUBBER KEYS (aside from the Hp30s). Function wise, great calculators, but no RPN. And marketing is CLUELESS. What you are We all would wish for a RPN selection feature, but as I have stated so many times, "Marketing has determined that >95% of the market doesn't even know what RPN is, so therefore don't bother to add the 0.50-1.00 option."
My take on the matter is, that the small 5% will buy and that will easily generate enough sales and perpetuate HP's name in the calc business. Considering how many calculator makers are out there (selling $10-20), a 5% market share of the low end market at a premium would be a nice slice of the pie. Hp could charge a premium (as if it doesn't or
Case in point, the only difference in cost between an Hp20s and an Hp32s was LCD display and Hp priced the 20s at $30 and the 32s at $60. Hp could still easily release an Hp20s with RPN (and no extra memory) and have it sell like hotcakes. Or re-release an Hp11c, (since they still make the Hp12c) and sell it for about $30 and sell like hotcakes
I feel that while the Hp Calculator group didn't haul in the $$$ that Carly wanted (but they were profitable, just not enuff $$$ for continued growth), there was more to Hp name recognition in technology that was given up when Hp abandoned ACO and its manufactoring. In fact, Hp has only tarnished its image with the release of the Hp6s. The Hp30s
I believe when you buy an Hp, you should be getting THE HP UNfair advandage of owning an Hp. SCREW the RULES. That is what makes an Hp48 such a great calc. Hp put everything in that calc, including the kitchen sink (if you figure in the eq. lib with fluid flow). If the calculator ends up banned, so WHAT! Hp doesn't get sold en masse anyway. The Hp38 then 39/40G should have included units conversions
As it stands now Ti has a great marketing plan, Sell the Ti-83 (actually, sell the Ti73, worthless as it is, to 6th graders) to the high school market, then sell the Ti-89, to the college market. Three calculator sales to the right crowd, and at least one to every student. I say snag that Ti-89 sale, and also crowd in on the Ti-83 market buy offering a superior calculator to the discerning customer Just my ranting, as if anyone at Hp is ever going to listen to their once dedicated customer base. ▼
Post: #44
11-22-2002, 08:40 AM
Do you know if anyone from HP calculators monitors Comp48 and mines it for marketing input data ? If so, maybe they will respond. If not, I would recommend that we organize a writing campaign to let them know what an already loyal group would like to see (and buy) in the calculator market. The funny thing is, most companies would love to be able to directly interact with such loyal fan base. Anybody know the appropriate email addresses ? ▼
Post: #45
11-23-2002, 10:43 AM
If HP won't produce the calculators we want, maybe it is time to start lobbying another manufacturer. Calculated Industries appears to be able to profitably sell calculators which appeal to niche markets. Their cheapest calculators sell for $20 (e.g. the ProjectCalc, or the KitchenCalc), and rapidly increase in price from there. From a cursory review of their product line, it appears that part of their marketing strategy is to simply avoid the brutally competitive educational calculator market that the HP 9G and HP 9S are aimed at. ▼
Post: #46
11-23-2002, 12:38 PM
Hi Mike, I think that's a great idea. I also have two more potential suggestions for possible companies to contact. One possible company might be C. Crane. Another might be one of the consumer astronomy/telescope companies, the Questars or Celestrons of the world, etc. [On the other hand, maybe I've been listening to too much of Art Bell :)] ▼
Post: #47
11-23-2002, 01:20 PM
How can you listen to too much Art Bell??? The Truth Is Out There, 'way out there if my handful of listening experiences was any guide :). And BTW, has *NO ONE* yet seen either of these, do we still Not Have A Clue as to whether the 9[SG] can (also?) do RPN??? I checked Google & Yahoo, all the (usually "one") useful hits point back here, to the MoHPC :).
Post: #50
11-25-2002, 06:20 AM
I've touched a Calculated Industries machine once and had a feeling of a cheap low-capability machine. They are very very basic, for instance date calculations are unaware of any irregularity in the calendar (base 30/360 only). Your idea is interesting still, for example take a look at what Karce builds, mainly as OEM.
On the HP9G, it looks like a Casio 6300. Note that Casio seems to have licensed the same machine to Lexibook last year, giving birth to their nice (at the price) 500 & 1000 models. Also, I recently found a Citizen 365G which has very similar features (but the numeric display is 7-segments, and its programming language is very C-like). ▼
Post: #51
11-25-2002, 10:57 PM
I purchased the ProjectCalc a couple of years ago to add to my collection. Ignoring the all too common rubber keys, it is fairly made. It has a good solid feel. The fit and finish is very good. The display is good. While certainly not as nice as a Voyager or older Pioneer from HP, I'd have to say it is higher quality than much of what is currently on the market. Besides Karce (the Karce KC-117 looks suspiciously like an HP6S), Truly has started producing some calculators with unique features. |
