Talking about eBay craziness ...



#17

... have you seen this ? :

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1386148962

Can you imagine, paying $263 for a Forth/Assembler ROM
for the 71B ? Not the machine plus the ROM and a
complementary lollipop, just the ROM and its manual ?

When I tried to sell mine in the Add sections of MoHP a few
years ago I got no takers at all, despite the fact that
the three volumes of the IDS (Internal Design Especifications) and a lot more 71B assembler listings and info were included as well, and that I wasn't specifying any particular price at all. Finally, just one person
wrote offering $50, and he got them all, a massive package.

Seems to me that prices such as the ones recently seen
for such crappy machines as the newest incarnation of
32SII just demonstrate that the market has gone crazy and
there are no longer bona-fide collectors, but just people
who are inflating the bubble more and more.

It won't
collapse, mind you, but people will simply give HPs a miss and
begin collecting more affordable machines. And some people
are going to find themselves with a lot of unsold machines,
after having paid preposterous prices to get them in the
first place.


#18

First, the market is CRAZY. And as a collector, I cannot afford to finish my collection from ebay at this time. But a calculator is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it (actually with ebays policy, what two people are willing to pay for it).

I feel the high prices are due to three factors:

1. Stupid, sentamental, over-attached, dimwitted collectors with more $$$ than brains (That probalby applies to each of us at some time or another, ie. I've got to HAVE IT!).

2. Most often, an engineer whose caclulator finally gives out or is lost, can't find Hp anymore, and has to resort to ebay and isn't in the mood to shop, has no idea about prices, and wants that replacement, come hell or high water.

3. I suspect every so often SHILLING does take place. Even if a sale or trans-action doesn't go through, a new high in calculator prices is made and this drives up the value of a well stocked and deep inventory. No way is an Hp32 worth over a $120 as a tool, when you can buy a much more capable Hp48 for under $100 new, retail. But since the 32 is not made any longer, it is now a collectable. And as such, it commands whatever the market will bear.

I liked my 15c best for daily use, but I now use a 48G exclusively for any work, just because IT IS EXPENDABLE and REPLACABLE. It is even a better calculator as long as it is on my desk. But I sure do miss the pocket size calc and would buy another if Hp were to still make an 11c or 15c (and they could, they still make a 12c).

But since I live in a real world where Hp calcs are collected (and Why not!, I engage in this myself, from time to time), I just am thankful of the collection I already have. And exercise patience. 20-40 years from now, our children just might put our Calculators out on the curb and sell for a buck apiece (Now that Hurts, a collection of Thousands of dollars, being sold for $20-50 total). Definitely a possiblity for some of us. Nightmares, anyone?

#19

I'm not a "collector" per se. I don't honestly care about boxes, sales brochures, or whatnot. I'm not even *particularly* attached to comsetics. (that being said, I do have some calcs I'm collecting because I can afford to and they are also backups to models I do use at loeast occasionally)

I just want usable machines, of the type I use. I'm enough of an explorer that this list is pretty large- basically from the 67 on. I can't afford a 71, haven't seen one in usable condition (I do like manuals of some sort. and battery coverplates) that I can afford. I'm certianly not paying the eternal $550 buyitnow price!

I'm glad the machines I love are valued. And I like finding a good deal once in a while. But the ebay insanity is more annoying to my usage based collecting habit than my plans for retirement or whatnot.I'd love to see the "ubble" deflate some.

#20

I'm not a "collector" per se. I don't honestly care about boxes, sales brochures, or whatnot. I'm not even *particularly* attached to comsetics. (that being said, I do have some calcs I'm collecting because I can afford to and they are also backups to models I do use at loeast occasionally)

I just want usable machines, of the type I use. I'm enough of an explorer that this list is pretty large- basically from the 67 on. I can't afford a 71, haven't seen one in usable condition (I do like manuals of some sort. and battery coverplates) that I can afford. I'm certianly not paying the eternal $550 buyitnow price!

I'm glad the machines I love are valued. And I like finding a good deal once in a while. But the ebay insanity is more annoying to my usage based collecting habit than my plans for retirement or whatnot.I'd love to see the "bubble" deflate some.


#21

I assume you are referring to my 71B on ebay. Yes, the price is high but not higher than anyone elses. The 71 that I have is near mint, includes a card reader that can sell for $200 (yes, that's high too but it would sell in 1 hour, if I sold it seperately). It also includes a 64K RAM (front plug-in) and mint manuals still in original shrinkwrap.

The reason for the post is to show how things are exagerated here that $550 is not for a mere 71B.

Now, after having said all of that, send me your mailing address and I'll send you a good usable 71B for FREE. Of course, it won't include card reader, RAM modules, docs, HP-IL or case. But since you are not looking for these things, that shouldn't be a problem.


#22

I wasn't trying to suggest that there was anything fundamentally wrong with the price for that partcular one- other than the general inflation annoyances. *all* the 71B setups are pricey.

Believe me, I've drooled over that 71 setup a bit.

No problem with you getting the going rates. I just dislike the going rates.

The rest I will do in email :)


#23

Mike: I always enjoy looking at your auctions because of your thorough item description (including all of the pictures!) I wish all eBayers were as diligent as you...then we'd have a better idea of the quality of the item before we bought it. Unfortunately, "mint" means different things to different people (one seller once told me that his calc was mint, except for the fact that the battery cover was cracked and a few pixels on the screen didn't work!).

B.


#24

But my auctions are always 100% tested. Ocasionally I'll sell something that has a problem but the problem is disclosed. Like my 9825. But what people don't see are the literally hundreds of garbage (or parts only) items that were sold originally as good and working only to show up as junk.

I enjoy restoring, repairing and finding a great deal. Some I sell, some I keep, some I give away. But there is little risk in any of my auctions.

I know what you mean by "mint" meaning different things. To me, mint means "can't tell it from one right off the assembly line." That is why I rarely use the term mint and when I do it's more likely that it is "near mint." Near mint is what I use to mean better than other people's mint:-) (not really)

Many are trying to leverage off of my prices but still don't state clearly what they are selling. Too many, "not tested" by collectors. Or "unknown condition" by collectors or other such vague statements.

Here is a tip sheet that I put together for those bidding on ebay. Tip Sheet

Maybe it will help some new ebayers.


#25

I thought "Near Mint" was a flavor for a weak, caffeine-free herbal tea . . . {8-)

#26

Christof, contact me. I have some 'paperwork' regarding the 71 you might be interested in (free of charge).


#27

yknow, all things considered, I have to say this is definitely the overall best community of users I've ever been a part of.

#28

And if that were not enough, the HP 82490A, HP41 Translator Pac for the HP-71 (Item # 1386397239) went for $210.50.

Outrageous! This kind of behaviour must be
outlawed. :-)

Seriously, I am a bit tired of the continuous bitching about high prices on eBay. If you don't like it, don't use it. Complaining about it won't make any difference.

People who have the time to shop around find good prices, people who don't (or do not know how to shop around), pay high prices. This is how the market works.

However, lets look at the beneficial aspects for these "high" prices. If an HP71B cost $30.00, then it wouldn't be worthwhile creating an auction for the translator module. The owner would either leave it were it was, or just throw it away.

Here the difference between user and collector becomes significant. I use my HP41CXs and my HP33C every day. I woudn't use an HP48G or an HP49GX because they are ugly, their form factor is inconvenient and I find their user interface too heavy for my casual use.
I have also purchased replacements for these calculators in case they break down.

I am not a collector. I don't care one bit that I am using scanned manuals from the MoHPC CDROM, I couldn't care less that my HP33C does not have a battery pack, or charger (it uses two NiMH cells that are charged in an external charger). And if one of the calculators did come in a box, I'd probably throw it away (especially if it was one of these infernal styrofoam contraptions that shed bits all over the carpet).

I, therefore, do not mind getting calculators without boxes or manuals. And since I indend to use them, I don't mind the odd scratch here and there.

This allows me to purchase stuff that go for lower prices, but I have to wait longer for the right price. Patience and vigilance are eventually rewarded.

For us users, the MoPC is an invaluable resource, because it provides us with information and access to manuals and programs that are extremly difficult to find on the open market. The collector will always purchase an original manual, this means that scanning it and contributing to the MoHPC will not reduce its retail price. I encourage people who have manuals that are not in the MoHPC collection, to scan them and contribute them, as they are the lifeblood of the museum. Special thanks are, of course, due the currator.

Thanks Dave.

**vp


#29

>>>And if that were not enough, the HP 82490A, HP41 Translator Pac for the HP-71 (Item # 1386397239) went for $210.50.
<<<

Well- what is the status on the 71 ROMs? I'm game to try and make some rom packages, or ram packages, if I can get the bits and plans (assmebly, yes. design, not yet.)

(making an HPIL module is probably a bit more involved, alas)


#30

Looks like the 71 ROM prices are going up. I'm one more of those who stopped trying to understand the HP market prices. We've seen $1000 HP-65s and I myself got an expensive HEPAX module a while ago. Perhaps I contributed to inflate prices, I am afraid. On the other hand, some collectors will pay anything for an item they want: it happened to me, and can happen to anyone.

I know it is a little bit off-topic, but does anyone out there have a copy of the HP-41 Translator user's manual? I have been looking for one lately, and it is not on the Museum CDs.

Thanks in advance.


#31

I saw an Altair computer go for $5000 just about 2 weeks ago. Altair was the first but $5000?

#32

John Smith on 14 Oct 2002, 8:13 a.m. wrote:

... people who are inflating the bubble more and
more.

It won't collapse, mind you, but people will simply give HPs a miss and begin collecting more affordable machines. And some
people are going to find themselves with a lot of unsold machines, after having paid preposterous prices to get them in the first place.

People ending up with unsellable overpriced stuff, is the definition of a burst bubble.

**vp


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