33s/35s Checksums paradigm



#2

Hello all.

If the checksums and lengths are meaningless, how then am I supposed to verify that my program was entered correctly. Or, am I back to square one and SST/BST through my program like I did in the 34C, 15C days?


#3

The latter. The 35s has a huge memory so you'll be single stepping for a lot longer.


- Pauli


#4

Well, maybe not that long as I'd be proofing the program I just wrote. And, even if I forgot and wrote a whole slew of programs, I'd take them one by one with a breather between sets.


#5

Better not try this little game then :-)


- Pauli


#6

This is a perfect example why all these current RPN machines (and all except the 65/67/41) are a PITA.

In RPL or in a 1, you could take that whole code listing and just copy the freaking thing into memory. But in a 35S etc you have to KEY IT IN. Ugh. The stone age.


#7

The 34S fits in line with the 65/67/41: You can transfer software from the PC to it. :-)


#8

And back.

And between 34S's.


- Pauli

#9

Where can I get the 34S


#10

You need a few things:

  1. An HP 30b (or 20b but the 30b has the better keyboard)
  2. A cable to change the firmware, available through Gene Wright, here in the forum
  3. A serial port on your PC, preferably an FTDI USB/serial adapter or a hardware port
  4. A keyboard overlay, made by Eric Rechlin
  5. And, of course, the firmware from http://wp34s.sf.net

The README file on our SourceForge pages gives you the necessary e-mail addresses.


#11

Or buy a preprogrammed ones with overlay.
There is at least one source for this currently.

- Pauli

#12

You'd think, within the era of the SD Card, HP'd design it newer models with an SD slot or some I/O. Look at the 48GX--even that had (although proprietary) expansion cards.

Edited: 3 Mar 2012, 8:16 a.m.


#13

Quote:
You'd think, .... HP'd design it newer models with an SD slot or some I/O.

The 50g: SD card, USB and serial I/O ;-)
#14

Calculators with memory card slots and I/O ports are prohibited on many tests (e.g., NCEES), and HP doesn't want to lose that market. TI, Sharp, Casio, etc. also make lots of calculators without I/O ports, for the same reasons.

From a marketing perspective, people that want memory cards and I/O ports on calculators are a tiny part of the market, and usually are willing to buy high-end calculators, so it is hard to justify trying to put those features into low-end calculators.

#15

!!Sorry for the double-post!!

As much as I see keystroke programming a catapult to the stone age, I'm rather fond of it for what it is meant for. Given, in the 65/67/34C eras, 100, 224 and 210 steps respectively, weren't that much, so a keystroke approach wasn't that painful. Although, the 15C's still ahead of its time, its 448 step limit is yes, a bit overwhelming and exhausting. But, given the 15C's capabilities and, although its lack of external storage into an SD card, etc, the 15C is worth the keystroke effort.

But, as for the new era of the 32SII and following keystroke programmables, I also limit myself to making concessions so as to merit the effort put into keying in relevant apps I need at the time.

Although yes, it is rather a PITA (not the bread, though) and gone are the days of Rapid Reverse Branching and the 67
& 34C's downward label searches from the current program step (and that was why it was so cool you could reuse labels), another way around it for me is that although I have 26-one-time-only labels at my disposal, I rewrite my code to use different labels then the ones currently in program memory.


Edited: 3 Mar 2012, 8:50 a.m.


#16

Quote:
Although yes, it is rather a PITA (not the bread, though) and gone are the days of Rapid Reverse Branching and the 67
& 34C's downward label searches from the current program step (and that was why it was so cool you could reuse labels), another way around it for me is that although I have 26-one-time-only labels at my disposal, I rewrite my code to use different labels then the ones currently in program memory.

Wrong! The 34S has something equivalent to rapid reverse branches. It supports label-less branches and subroutine calls a specific number of steps backwards *and* forwards.

That is in addition to a wealth of labels -- 100 numeric, 4 hot key and over fifteen million alphabetic. The 100 numeric and 4 hot key are per program as well.


- Pauli


#17

Sorry if you were misled. The 34C is the calculator I'm referring to
( here--HP-34C here at MoHPC )

Thanks for the update. As I'm unfamiliar with the WP-34S you speak of, thanks for informing me of its robust functionality.

Edited: 3 Mar 2012, 10:26 p.m.


#18

I know the 34c well -- my first ever HP.
I've definitely got a soft spot for it.


- Pauli

#19

Well, they said the same about the 28S, and that kept my programs safe for 15 years. Until a broken battery door caused the battries to fall out in my bag, and I didn't notice until it was too late.

But I agree, the 35s checksum problem makes it laborious to check that programs are keyed in correctly.

#20

H & S Game is that long?!?! That's NUTS! Someone actually wrote this 600+ step thing? Even chemical/mechanical/electrical engineering programs aren't this laborious! Must've drained the battery something terrible.

Edited: 3 Mar 2012, 8:12 a.m.


#21

See that chap that posted the link? He actually wrote it, within the first two weeks of the 35s being on sale! I have it in my 35s, it took me 2 days just to key it in (I had to take breaks when the lines started floating about).


#22

The 'chap' has become far more serious by now. ;-)

#23

I can't help remembering a scene from one of the Airport movies. Stewardess to passenger, who's reading a very thick book, "The Microchip Logic":
"How can you read such a book?"
"I wrote it!"


#24

Perhaps inspired by similar dialog between James Coburn and Lee Cobb's characters in _In Like Flint_ from 1967:

"Flint, how do you find time to read all these books?"

"No, no, no, sir, I wrote those."

#25

Yes, I wrote it. It has been typed in and used by more than a few people (not counting me who has typed it in a couple of times). There are several 41c games this size or larger, so it is nothing really exceptional.

And no, no batteries drained by this that I'm aware of.

I'll get around to a 34S version eventually, but you won't have to type it in, it will be part of the software library.


- Pauli

#26

Quote:
If the checksums and lengths are meaningless, how then am I supposed to verify that my program was entered correctly. Or, am I back to square one and SST/BST through my program like I did in the 34C, 15C days?

What ever happened to doing test cases?

#27

Yes, I see your point. That was part of my 34C, 15C, TI-58C and SR-56 days so, it'll be jut like old times (which were good).

Edited: 3 Mar 2012, 8:57 p.m.


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