Talking to HP



#31

Does anyone here know who to talk to at HP about what's being discussed or done regarding the HP35s bugs? I tried the "ask HP" thingy from the website and haven't received an answer.


#32

I don't think they'll ever fix the existing 35s machines. The only way they could do that would be to replace those units, and they have apparently sold a lot of them.

I don't have any idea why they haven't fixed the firmware in newer units.


#33

This is irritating. I'd be willing to spend twice as much as the 35s typically goes for as long as the bugs are fixed. I'm hoping that they have something like a 35sii waiting in the wings that would address the objections many of us have.

No idea who to talk to?


#34

HP's calculator engineers, cyrille de Brébisson and Tim Wessman, both occasionally post to this forum. It seems certain to me that neither had much say in whether the problems would be fixed or not. Tim gives some hints about how things went wrong at the beginning of this thread. Given those conditions, you might be able to make a reasonable guess as to why they haven't fixed it.

Bashing the 35s is an ever green topic here, and that's what the referenced thread devolves into. It's interesting if you haven't heard it all before. :)


#35

I posted to the HP Communities calculator forum and got the attention of Miguel Angel Caporalini, the guy who runs it. He replied to my post with this:

Quote:
If you have existing warranty for your HP35S, you must contact, with the HP Technical Service near, at you home. Is important see, the inform, from ... http://www.hpcc.org/datafile/V26Special/the35s.pdf


#36

No, Miguel Angel Caporalini does not run the site, he is just an enthusistic supporter of Hp calculators and helps as many posters as He possibly can.

I posted a response to your concerns about the Hp35s on the comp.sys site and won't bother to boar other here. Mike Morrow has consistantly given you Hp's unofficial reasons for their lack of action. Does Mike speak directly for Hp? No, but his comment is on point and I would bet, accurate.

Tim and Cryille cannot give you any official words due to legal commitments infirred due to comments ie legal BS or being subjected to a corporate whipping or other such punishment. American corporate policies are often JUST LIKE THAT, for better or worse.

I do notice you have become an avid Hp calculator user and have selected a well loved model in the Hp 32sii.

Welcome.


#37

I understand Tim and Cryille not being able to talk <shrug>. I'm just chomping at the bit at the thought of a new scientific calculator using the chassis of the 20b. I'm very pleased with my new (old) 32sii. In the meantime I'll keep my eye on things.

It seems to me that sometime after the 35s came out, subsequent calculators were designed internally instead of contracted out. Am I correct?


#38

I believe that's true. Tim said as much in the referenced thread.


#39

That's reassuring.

#40

Quote:
I'm just chomping at the bit at the thought of a new scientific calculator using the chassis of the 20b.

Are you aware of wp34s? I don't see how hp could top what Walter, Pauli and Marcus have created for the 30b/20b hardware platform. (The 30b is so far superior to the 20b that the 20b should not even be considered.) Get a 30b, a cable from Gene, an overlay from Eric, and the v2.2 rev 1797 version of wp34s and have fun. If you don’t want to go to the hassle of getting the cable and learning how to download the rom, I’m sure someone here would do it for you.


#41

I've been vaguely aware of that project. I'll carefully consider doing it. Let me clarify what I meant by using the chassis of the 20b or 30b. The keyboard is essentially identical to the 32sii. Only the legends need to be changed. The WP34s project seems to have taken care of that problem in the best way practically available. Also, I'd like to see in it the LCD from the 35s. That's something that can only be changed by a complete rework of the mainboard. I've settled into really liking the entirely dot-matrixy (save for annunciators) way of doing things presented by the 32sii and the 35s.

Some other things for my fantasy calculator, hoping HP is reading:
Use screws instead of plastic rivets.
Include a means for updating the firmware.
USB and IR ports.
Even more memory than the 35s.


#42

Quote:
Let me clarify what I meant by using the chassis of the 20b or 30b. The keyboard is essentially identical to the 32sii. Only the legends need to be changed. The WP34s project seems to have taken care of that problem in the best way practically available.
Thanks. See my post below.
Quote:
Also, I'd like to see in it the LCD from the 35s. That's something that can only be changed by a complete rework of the mainboard. I've settled into really liking the entirely dot-matrixy (save for annunciators) way of doing things presented by the 32sii and the 35s.

Some other things for my fantasy calculator, hoping HP is reading:
Use screws instead of plastic rivets.
Include a means for updating the firmware.
USB and IR ports.
Even more memory than the 35s.


Santa's coming soon ;-) If you search the archives a little, you'll find that many people here share your wishes and will most happily sign your wishlist. Alas ... life is different :-/
#43

I second Jeff for obvious reasons. Here's what you'll get:

from us :-) There are emulators for Windows, Linux, and Mac OS available as well :-) And you'll also get a documentation of some 100 pages.

Enjoy,

Walter

#44

Quote:
I don't have any idea why they haven't fixed the firmware in newer units.

That's probably hard to correct, so that becomes the justification. What I really don't understand is why an obsolete version of HP 12C+ firmware is being used on the most recent HP 12C 30th Anniversary Edition. That doesn't indicate much value is being attached to "attention to detail"!


#45

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought one of the reasons the 35s doesn't have R-P or P-R is that they were deleted to make room for 'improved' functionality over the 33s. To me, that indicates the firmware ROM is full and to fix these issues would require more ROM space that what is left. So, it would require re-engineering the calculator with more space to make it work as we would like. Hmmm, what would HP do in this case?

Gerry
(I must be in a bad mood today.)


#46

I thought the 35s has the same amount of ROM as the 20b has flash. Look at the 34S for what can be done in that amount of space :-)

Okay, not a completely fair comparison since they have completely different CPUs. My suspicion would also be that the 35s's CPU is capable of having denser code...


- Pauli

#47

I'd honestly call the firmware issue a screwup on the part of the manufacturing contractor. More recent 12Cs appear to have been made by Inventec, the 12C AE appears to have been made by Kinpo, it's entirely possible their assembly line workers just flashed the image they were used to using the last time they built 12Cs (which could also explain the poor guy who got a 15C LE with 12C+ firmware).

#48

It seems strange that the HP35s was ever brought out. I have only recently acquired a HP32Sii. It does all that a HP35s does, without any bugs, great layout, the keys have a great feel and it is easy to write simple programs. My main calculator is a HP50. I like it for its power, versatility and its ability to transfer data to USB sticks and computers.

But when I am in the office doing simple calcs ( I am a Surveyor), I find that I nearly always reach for the 32sii. Its size is also a great positive. It reminds me of the HP 42s. Another great calculator.

Why did HP ditch a perfectly good calculator that was popular? I guess that this question has been asked by many before on this forum. But it is still frustrating. The bean counters have a lot to answer for.


#49

Quote:
HP32Sii. It does all that a HP35s does,

It doesn't.

Yes the 35S has bugs but there are at least a few improvements over the 32Sii starting with much more memory. This has been rehashed so often here that I am not going to go into details again but to say that there were no improvements is disingenuous. It might be true to say that the bugs, lack of R-P / P-R and some badly implemented features such as the binary mode ended up overshadowing the upgrades and ruined what might otherwise have been a very nice machine.

Cheers,

-Marwan


#50

I think the biggest improvement of the 35S over the 33S (I don't have a 32Sii - yet) is the ability to branch to program lines within labels (i.e. GTO A025). I love the carrying case.

My biggest beefs with it are (1) the lack of >Polar and >Rect functions - thankfully a work around has been presented and (2) the limited complex number support (despite that it has more than most of all the current non-graphing calculators on the market today).


#51

Agreed. That branch to line number feature is great and makes the huge memory usable (whereas the 33S with the same memory is hobbled in this regard). However, while the 32Sii does not have this feature it can be argued that it is not needed because it has much less memory and it is unlikely that you will ever need to use all the available labels to write a program that will fit in available memory. I would respond that even with a bunch of small programs it is a nice feature to have since each main label is a separate program and you don't have to figure out what goes with what. E.g. anything that has a line number starting with A... belongs to program A. Not true for either the 32Sii or the 33S.

This is one of the improvements that I was referring to above.

Cheers,

-Marwan

#52

Quote:
It seems strange that the HP35s was ever brought out. I have only recently acquired a HP32Sii.

The 32sii has been out of production since 2003, I think. So there is no relationship between them, as far as marketing is concerned. rather the 35s was meant to supersede the 33s, as Tim seems to point out in the thread Howard Owen referenced.

The 35s is never going to be fixed, because it was entirely outsourced under independent contract; WYSIWYG.

However, note in the same referenced thread there was a tiny hint about future scientific models(s).


#53

Quote:
However, note in the same referenced thread there was a tiny hint about future scientific models(s).

Yes, I noticed this. Let's hope it is far and away better than the 34S.


- Pauli


#54

34S? <g>. Do you have something on the brain? <bg>


#55

Perhaps :-)

The 34S is keeping me from playing with the 41CL :-(


- Pauli

#56

Quote:
However, note in the same referenced thread there was a tiny hint about future scientific models(s).

I think Tim was hinting at the 15C LE.

#57

Quote:
I think Tim was hinting at the 15C LE.

Possibly, but the 15c LE had already been "outed" when that thread appeared.
#58

Quote:
The 35s is never going to be fixed, because it was entirely outsourced under independent contract; WYSIWYG.
Why haven't bug fixes been outsourced? This other company apparently did the 33S, too (both calculators even share the same bugs where applicable), so there's some relationship. And the 33S actually underwent a bugfix.

The explanation is a different one, imo. The 35s sells, and so is bug free from the business point of view :-(.


#59

I wonder if the 35S being on the NCEES calculator list has something to do with the lack of changes/updates. The 33S is also on the list, so both calculators would need at least some of the same changes so that the results would be consistent between them. I was thinking about the cos bug specifically.
So, HP would have to change both calculators, then try go get them both to pass NCEES testing again. I can see why HP would be hesitant to do this. It is a slippery slope with the risk of getting banned by NCEES for the short term if all doesn't go well. I think we would all like to see some of these things changed, but probably won't happen.


Also just noticed that the NCEES calculator policy page got an update today:
NCEES

I think TI added a calculator, but I might be wrong on that.

#60

I love my 32sii no matter the minimal bugs in it.


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