HP 15c LE - Extended PSE Functionality?



#20

Dear HP!

I'm sure you're busy fixing the PSE bug. While you're at it, might you consider to extend the functionality of the PSE command by making it possible to add a number afterwards to specify the length of the pause?

Example:

PSE - original behaviour, so old programs will still work

PSE 2 - 2 seconds pause

PSE 3 - 3 seconds pause and so on


#21

Quote:
Dear HP!

I'm sure you're busy fixing the PSE bug. While you're at it, might you consider to extend the functionality of the PSE command by making it possible to add a number afterwards to specify the length of the pause?

Example:

PSE - original behaviour, so old programs will still work

PSE 2 - 2 seconds pause

PSE 3 - 3 seconds pause and so on


I'll be happier to see the PSE command to accept keyboard input and so I can use it to write more HP-15C games! :)


#22

None of this will ever happen but you can still use the WP 34S where the behavior is implemented (taking an argument in tenth of seconds and being interruptible by keyboard input).

The 15C is based on the original firmware running in an emulated environment. So any changes to the firmware are restricted to the interface between emulation and original hardware layer. The PSE bug was introduced by a speed optimization of the emulation of the R2D2 LCD driver chip which sped up the integrator considerably (intended outcome) but broke the reliable update of the physical display when a program is running (unintended side-effect).


#23

It would be nice to see the PSE work as intended on the 15C LE (maybe internally force the calculator to wait a second?). Personally, I almost never use PSE - I use R/S instead because it gives you time to write the answer down.


#24

Same here. Either you want the program to run fast and unattended, in which case PSE will just slow it down, or you want to get a series of intermediate results, in which case PSE will be too rushed. It might be handy for debugging, but R/S and SST are probably better options.

Just use this instead of PSE:

F? 7

R/S

Then if you have flag 7 set, your program will stop to show you intermediate results, otherwise it will just keep going. If you want to get really fancy, you could have it optionally put all the sequential results into a matrix, or series of registers so you can go back to them afterward. Maybe I'll do this to my prime factors program.

Edited: 30 Sept 2011, 10:52 a.m. after one or more responses were posted


#25

If you set flag 9 on the HP 15C/15C LE, the display blinks until the calculator is turned off or flag 9 is cleared. Flag 9 is one of two system flags, and is set by overflow conditions or set manually. See page 100 of the Owner's Handbook.


#26

Yeah, slipped my mind. Just use 7 instead.


#27

I thought you used Flag 9 on purpose. That way the display would be flashing when it stopped, reminding you that you needed to do something. Of course then it keeps flashing while you enter a number or whatever, so you'd have manually clear flag 9, or have a CF 9 be the next instruction. Perhaps not as useful as I first thought.

#28

I use PSE a lot when debugging programs...

- Pauli

#29

I'm looking forward to someone commenting on my suggestion and not on what they'd rather like or why they don't use PSE at all. :-)


#30

I believe that Marcus answered your question here. As he says, it is not going to happen because HP is *not* modifying the original firmware but just the emulator running underneath it.

#31

Quote:
I'm looking forward to someone commenting on my suggestion and not on what they'd rather like or why they don't use PSE at all. :-)

As I've already pointed out, the 15C will never see your improvements. It is likely impossible to add any more instructions or modify the existing ones due to limitations in the op-code space even if the source code were available.

#32

Besides, TW has already said HP does not have the source code, and editing the binary seems too much like asking for more bugs.

#33

Sorry, I thought you commented on From Hong Kong's idea.

Still, if HP would not release the original firmware, wouldn't that be a shame? :(
In that case the flashing connector would merely serve to fix emulator bugs and nothing more...

Edit: They don' have the code? I'm learning the strangest things nowadays! ;(


Edited: 30 Sept 2011, 11:08 a.m.


#34

You still do not seem to understand: HP has full control over the 15C LE software but part of it is just a hex dump of the original 15C code. The source code of the latter is simply lost. :-(

They could, of course, write a completely new firmware which behaves the same as the original 15C did but is a native reimplementation of the functionality. Since there is no I/O, the internal representation of op-codes doesn't matter and additions may be made to the original code set.

If HP has no intentions to do this, the community may chime in...


#35

Quote:
You still do not seem to understand:

Certainly true! I'm only a user.

Quote:

If HP has no intentions to do this, the community may chime in...


So you say this is possible!? Great! I'm looking forward to it, as I am to every new development on the wonderful WP34s!

#36

Quote:
HP has full control over the 15C LE software but part of it is just a hex dump of the original 15C code. The source code of the latter is simply lost. :-(

I'd like to see it get found again by a
community effort something like this
(message #1 last paragraph).

Quote:
They could, of course, write a completely new firmware which behaves the same as the original 15C did but is a native reimplementation of the functionality.

If HP has no intentions to do this, the community may chime in...


That's really where this should lead, and having annotated
NUT source is the starting point. Perhaps the 15c le will
result in enough interest to have such an effort attain traction
even in light of the fact the end result would still export a
7 segment user interface.

Edited: 2 Oct 2011, 10:04 p.m.

#37

Quote:
I'm looking forward to someone commenting on my suggestion and not on what they'd rather like or why they don't use PSE at all. :-)

OK...here goes. I don't like your idea. What you want to do is very simply accomplished by adding another PSE command after the first (in a 15C-LE with the PSE bug fixed, of course).

I don't like anyone's ideas for tweaking and "improving" the 15C-LE programming model in any manner beyond the 30-year-old standard established by the original HP-15C. It will be sufficient when or if that ever takes place for the 15C-LE.

Sorry.


#38

It can be done with stringing PSEs, but wouldn't my idea save memory? And it wouldn't have to be an official HP thing that everybody needed to flash on his machine. Just the possibility to decide which version to take would be nice.

But it's moot without the firmware available.


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