HP 15C LE in Berlin (Germany)



#47

HP 15C LE in Berlin (Germany)



Finally, my copy of the HP 15C made its way to Berlin (Europe! not Texas or equivalent).

Today in the morning I went to customs to get it from there. A notice from the parcel service arrived yesterday stating that the invoice was not accessible from outside of the parcel. However, I saw that it was clearly visible and suppose hat the parcel service (DHL) was too lazy to manage customs for me.

It has been a long time since I have ordered the calc at Samson Cables (16 Sep). I spent $99.99 for the machine and $40 for the delivery. For this kind of service German customs wanted 19% sales tax, i.e. $26.60 (what I can calculate easily with the 15C now :-), interestingly the transport costs were added to the costs of the item itself (luckily no additional fees for items below EURO 150).

This makes a total sum of $139.19 for the HP 15C LE getting from the Americas to my home.



Regards

Frido


#48

Hallo Frido,

taxes include shipping from US to Europe, but not transport to the customs! If you file an objection, you'll get some money back (look up this matter on TSS).

Thomas

P.S.: I consider my parcel lost. It's not trackable on the DHL site and last USPS status update is from 9/16. Sent by SC as a 'letter'. Consider youself lucky, Frido ;-(.


#49

Afraid mine is also MIA - same situation as yours. :-(

I was hopping it was hostage at customs but I've given up the idea - simply too much time has passed now.


#50

I don't know how serious such reports are, but USPS is quite well known for lost packages in Germany. Never had any problems receiving something from Singapore or China, but then, quite some parcels successfully arrived from the US. All in all this is the 2nd lost parcel in my whole life - and the most expensive. Darn.

As an interesting note, USPS cannot be easily contacted by email as a non residential customer. I chose deliberately a wrong option to get at least heard, but aren't sure they will respond. Will wait for another week and then try my limited english knowlegde on the phone, but probably just to make a complete fool out of me. Oh well...


#51

Thomas,

I have never shipped to Germany, but I did ship once to Italy via USPS priority mail, and it took almost a full month to arrive. By contrast, I recently shipped the same way to Singapore, and it only took 6 days. Also, I always buy insurance so that a claim can be filed if the parcel is lost. Did SC buy insurance ? If so, I would contact them and let them make the claim for you.

Michael


#52

Michael,

it's not isured. When I preordered, I had no other choice than Priority Mail, so I wonder how others did the trick to get the express service, which is apparently insured. But then, I don't know if I had chosen it, for $18 I paid was quite a good deal as it seemd ;-(.

I drew my conclusions about the parcel being lost from the last sign of life from the US west coast, sorting station, on 9/16. I'd rather expected it to get to the east coast. Second, it was declared as 'letter', which is what I don't understand, and third, we've had lots of reports of successful deliveries to Germany (also Priority Mail, some after one week), and just one other person is also waiting for it.

Maybe it got homesick and took the next junk across the Pacific to China, don't know.

Thomas


#53

Don't worry - yet! If for some reason it was send as a letter than there is no tracking available beyond the US border. Letters take considerably longer to deliver - I had one seemingly lost for over six weeks before it was delivered by the letterman of Deutsche Post (a letterwoman in my case) and not by DHL's truck. This can have the bonus that it will skip customs inspection... ;)


#54

I don't undertand how a parcel that size can be sent as a "letter." A padded envelope is not considered a letter, but is classified as a parcel, just the same as if it had been packaged in a rigid box. The $18 fee seems low considering the size and weight of the package. Anyway, I hope I'm wrong on this and Thomas receives his calculator, but it doesn't sound right to me.

#55

Don't worry - yet. If for some reason it was send as a letter, which your tracking number indicates, there is no tracking available beyond the US border. A letter takes considerably longer to deliver, I had one seemingly lost for six weeks before I finally got it from the Deutsche Post letterwoman - not the DHL truck. Mine came also via West coast, as a parcel. 'Letter' may have the bonus of skipping the customs inspection... ;) So, keep your fingers crossed for a little longer!

Edited: 30 Sept 2011, 2:19 p.m.


#56

Thanks for bolstering! :-)

#57

Thomas,

Insurance is an available option for a USPS Priority Mail Medium Flat Rate Box, and the cost to Germany would be $50 USD including insurance for $200 USD. It sounds like it was never actually shipped as it could not possibly be a letter or cost only $18. SC has made mistakes with other orders, such as shipping only one unit when two were ordered and showing two on the invoice and customs form. If you bought from SC, I would demand a refund and buy from someone else.

Michael


#58

If it was rejected by USPS, it would show up on their status page, right? Could be as well that the tracking number SC gave me doesn't belong to my order.

Of course, I contacted SC and Chris ensured me it would arrive. We'll see.

#59

Hi Frido,

at which custom office (Kufsteiner Str.?) you pick up your 15c?
How long you had to wait?


Andreas

#60

I knew it!!!

My TI-30 with AOS:

$99.99 + $40.00 + $26.60 = $166.59

Your HP 15c returned according to your email:

$139.19

Want a spare TI-30???

Viele Gruesse aus Rochester,

Joerg

#61

Hello,

my 15c (also from SC) for 99 USD + 24+8 USD shiping + 46 USD swedish tax + handling fee, makes 178 USD in total.

So your baby was a real bargain.

Glueckwunsch, billig geschosen!

Greetings from Sweden

#62

To Thomas:

Quote:
taxes include shipping from US to Europe, but not transport to the customs! If you file an objection, you'll get some money back (look up this matter on TSS).




According to this site, taxes are accounted to price of item + transport + fees. Anyway, it would make a difference of +/- 5 Euros, and I think is it not worth the time you spend to get some bucks back.



Too bad that your 15C apparently got lost. Maybe you receive it on Christmas then ;-)







To Andreas:

Quote:
at which custom office (Kufsteiner Str.?) you pick up your 15c? How long you had to wait?




Yes ,it was there and it took about 2 hours to get my parcel :-(







To Joerg:

Quote:
Your HP 15c returned according to your email:

$139.19




Well, you are completely right: it should have been $166.59.

I re-calculated this with the fingers of my 4-years old and got the correct answer :-)







To Frank:

Quote:
my 15c (also from SC) for 99 USD + 24+8 USD shiping + 46 USD swedish tax + handling fee, makes 178 USD in total.




Sweden is (in)famous for its taxes, isn't it? There is how you delivered a good example. Wasn't it Astrid Lindgren who claimed in the 1970ies to pay income taxes of about 103%?

Well, at least the transportation company seemed to be merciful with you as it was not as costly as for Germany. Or could it be that Sweden is closer to the States? ;-)






Regards

Frido

#63

Hi Frido,

I was also today there and picked up my 15c with the nice LE number of 00142.
I had to wait only for round about 90 minutes to pay my Taxes.

Andreas


#64

From time to time I hear these stories and find them quite baffling.

#65

This waiting time at the local customs office really baffles me. In Belgium, where I live, I can pay the VAT charged by the customs office directly to the postman or at the post office (when I am not at home when the postman tried to deliver the package). I only had to pay 10 euros, quite reasonable for a sale price of $99.99.

I have had my personal experiences (back when I was studying in Germany) with the stubborness of German administration, but this is really outreageous. Does this mean that for every purchase of goods in the US (e.g. books through amazon.com), you have to go through this ordeal?

OTOH, Andreas, your LE number of 142 more than makes up for this. Mine is 726 ;-)


Edited: 29 Sept 2011, 6:54 p.m.


#66

Quote:
Does this mean that for every purchase of goods in the US (e.g. books through amazon.com), you have to go through this ordeal?

For books and CDs I ordered from the U.S. the intervention of customs was not perceptible. May be, because you won't have to pay taxes for items below 22 Euros.

Years ago, I purchased a multimeter from the U.S. (value ~$200) and customs was managed by the transportation company. The argument of the company sending the HP 15C LE was that the invoice was not attached outside the parcel. As they were not allowed to open the parcel to search for an invoice they had no idea which taxed should be raised and therefore I had to pick up my parcel personally. However, I could not follow that argument as there was a receipt form in which the price of the item was listed. Possibly, the parcel service (UPS + DHL) not willing to manage customs and refused to demand the taxes afterwards.



Other question in this general context: are there any signs that HP will distribute HP 15C LE to Europe?



BTW: my copy has LEN no. 01587, so there is room for 99999 calcs?

#67

Actually there is room for 100000, as Cyrille reports that he has LE no. 00000.

#68

Quote:

Other question in this general context: are there any signs that HP will distribute HP 15C LE to Europe?



Quote:
I'm likely to buy one or maybe two more if/when European sales finally start (November?) - but I wonder if they'll be much cheaper?

Yes, they will be available in Europe from january most probably, at SRP of €129.99. In case you need more information, send me a quick email. :)


#69

130 Euros - that is pretty steep - is that before or after VAT. I paid an absolute fortune to ship two from Samson by express UPS, but even so it was not so much more than that ! (It was less without the customs at this end)

130 Euros is $174 (Sorry I have no idea how to get a Euro symbol !)


#70

Using your numeric keypad with NumLk on, hold Alt and type 0128 €

#71

If you are using a standard UK keyboard simply try [AltGr] + [4].

Otherwise EUR, GBP and USD are fine as well. ;-)

Regarding prices: I do not know anything about the situation in other countries, but at least here in Germany all pricing information that addresses regular consumers has to include VAT. From what you write I see that even 129 Euros would be slightly less than the price you finally paid for your own US-import. Doesn't sound all too bad to me. ;-) IMHO the major problem is time: three more months... #-\

Dieter


#72

Thanks - the [AltGr]+[4} worked.

>>Doesn't sound all too bad to me. ;-)

But considering HP's shipping costs from China to Europe will be similar to those to the USA, before VAT is considered, we're being asked to pay about $145 against $99 in the USA. 'fraid I consider that a rip-off for European customers if that suggested price turns out to be correct :-(


Edited: 1 Oct 2011, 8:07 p.m.


#73

Quote:
But considering HP's shipping costs from China to Europe will be similar to those to the USA [...]
Is it a known fact that HP calculators for the european market are coming straight from China, not from the US? There's probably no european stock for this small market, but I have no clue about this.

For a LE calculator, I'd understand a different price. For each a couple of hundert calcs a translation of the manual into spanish, french, italian, german, BE(?) *g* and so on has to be made, adding to the costs.


#74

>>There's probably no european stock for this small market.

Huh ! The market's twice as big as the USA ! And HP will be shipping other stuff to Europe anyway, so will hardly be specially routing the HP15C/LE to the States and back !

And the manuals have already been translated apart from a few minor changes.

Edited: 2 Oct 2011, 6:43 a.m.


#75

Quote:
>>There's probably no european stock for this small market.

Huh ! The market's twice as big as the USA !


'Market' doesn't just mean the number of citizens, but the number of potential customers. This (germany) is Casio/TI land, and I suspect it's no different in other european countries.

Quote:
And the manuals have already been translated apart from a few minor changes.
If you have no translation memory system-and all chaos I see in HPs documentation work indicates this-everything has to be done from scratch. From my own experience, a professional translation of one of the manuals is likely around $3000 - $5000. From the 10,000 15C LE, given most of them (to be) sold in the USA, how much do you think will go to any of the other countries? Cannot be more than a few hundred each. Put localization costs and support documentation on every calculator sold outside the US and you likely end up with the any reasonable price HP could take below self costs.

#76

Hmmm - perhaps I should concede this ! I just found this table attempting to prove my point, but unfortunately it doesn't ! :-(

http://hp15c.org/Countries.php

I must admit to being surprised at the low number of requests from the UK - 500 by 361 people, but greater surprise at differences in the number requested per person:

China 164.4/ea (are these web retailers I wonder ?)
Australia: 48.0/ea
UK: 1.4/ea
USA 2.5/ea
Angola 500/ea !!!! (2 individuals)

Australian total is about 80% American total ! I guess HP might have been a bit dubious about some of these figures !

And maybe you're right - taking UK requests these should have been at least 10x higher based solely on population numbers, although I would have originally thought HP would be just as popular (or not) over here as in USA.

Trouble is we have no way of knowing how much these figures have been skewed by large reseller requests, or even daft mistakes.

Edited: 2 Oct 2011, 9:20 a.m.


#77

361-500 for the UK. Not a surprise for me.
I've recently had my 12C recognised at work for the first time in 3 years... By an American boss.
And I happen to work for a leading investment bank in the UK.
I can't even use my HP calcs to improve my arch-geek status at work - a contraption like 15C LE on my desk would easily go unnoticed. "An old calculator, big deal."
And I am not talking about shiny happy young bank employees who wouldn't recognise a PlayStation 2 if they saw it, as it was "before their time". I am talking about a large team of diverse 40-to-50-somethings from the UK and the rest of the world, seasoned IT and financial professionals, who should at least be able to tell a 12C. Nope.
So it goes. UK, probably not a good place for retro HP calc stuff.

#78

Are you sure there will be localized versions, i.e. containing a printed non-English manual? As of today I only know there will be a different item number for the European 15C LE, but the item itself will be the same - including the handbook. At least that's what I understand from previous posts. Looking at my "German" 35s manual I even think that's a good idea. ;-)

On the other hand there are EU regulations requiring a manual in the language of the country where the item is sold. So I assume there will be at least something like a localized quick reference guide.

Maybe "someone in the know" can shed a bit of light on this ?-)

Dieter


#79

Quote:
On the other hand there are EU regulations requiring a manual in the language of the country where the item is sold.
Exactly. In Germany, this regulation is reflected by the new 'Produktsicherheitsgesetz'. Ignore it and you're in for a fine of up to 100,000 EUR. Aren't we nice? ;-).

I was also thinking about call centers, placement on the Website and so on. A lot of things have to be done to bring a product to a specific country. Usually it wouldn't pay for just a few calculators imo.

Edited: 2 Oct 2011, 11:45 a.m.

#80

Quote:
Put localization costs and support documentation on every calculator sold outside the US and you likely end up with the any reasonable price HP could take below self costs.
I agree. For instance, the HP 35s manual exists in Dutch, which perhaps explains why I paid 78.95 euros for it in a local retail store. The quality of the translation is reasonable.
#81

Transport via US Postal Service Priority Mail 24 USD plus 8 USD box upgrade.

The tax in Sweden is high if you are wealthy. The direct income tax depends on where you live, use to be around 33%. The sales tax is 25%. But the income tax increases once you pass a certain income limit. I don´t belong to this group :-(

Astrid Lindgren was then. I don´t think a tax of >100% is possible anymore. But this fine old lady will be put on new banknotes as a kind of compensation.


#82

Spain:

I preordered on July from Samson for $94.99.

In Spain you have to pay VAT, a couple of small fees (1 euro each or so) and 21 euro to have the paperwork done for you. The Spanish Post service, Correos, has really done an effort to do it better, and, even though they delayed processing for a week, I just had to answer a couple of emails sending a copy of the bill, accept a pro forma invoice and do send a bank transfer.

Total:

$94.99 + $40 shipping = $134.99

in euros, that's 99.

To that I have to add 18% VAT, 3.2% customs tariff -> 120 euros

And, the charge for the custom processing service, which is 21.80 (subject to VAT) -> 25.70

Total: 145 euro.


Seems the European Union has taken a hard stance on overseas purchases. I understand, of course, but the cost is rather hefty. Fortunately, at least in Spain I don't need to visit the customs.


#83

I ordered from Samson at $99.99 + $40 for USPS tracked shipping. At this end, VAT was GBP15.97, and customs handling fee GBP13.50, so my total was just over GBP120, about $185. At least collection and customs payment at our local parcel depot only took a few minutes.

And all well worth it to finally have a new 15C in my hands after years of coveting one.

I'm likely to buy one or maybe two more if/when European sales finally start (November?) - but I wonder if they'll be much cheaper?


#84

When the good old British middle man goes in, I doubt we'll see 15C (LE or otherwise) for less than £200 online, if indeed it ever arrives to these shores.
My 15C LE (00927, keyboard 1:0), which I ordered from SC some two weeks ago (thanks, SC!) arrived yesterday, after I paid online the VAT and a mysterious handling fee to Parcel Force, a fee which my wife eloquently described as "a small fee for providing the fee collection service".
Then again, who am I to complain about the proverbial middle man and his mysterious fees? Without the middle man culture and abundance of such jobs in the UK, I wouldn't be here, let alone be able to afford to buy a totally unnecessary but oh-so-desired 15C :)


#85

Quote:
a mysterious handling fee to Parcel Force

The fee is for the priveledge of them taking your tax money and passing it onto HMRC. Royal Mail do the same.
#86

Quote:
and customs handling fee GBP13.50

Interesting, Parcelforce charged me the standard GBP8.00

#87

That's curious. It seems to be a flat fee, as I paid the same last year on a parcel of slide rules from Canada with a value of C$294, and the VAT then was GBP37.49.

#88

The handling fee is astounding. Here in Germany you just pay for the VAT.

#89

Same here (Wehrheim). I got the exact same message about the missing customs declaration on the front of the box (not a bubble envelope) and I payed the same taxes. All in, the calculator cost me around 120€.

The customs pickup is in Oberursel. I've been there for numerous occasions. From time to time, a package arrives without any duties or the customs are handled by the Deutsche Post. It seems to depend more on the weather than on anything else I can imagine.

Edit: Typo in title.


Edited: 30 Sept 2011, 9:04 a.m.

#90

Quote:
interestingly the transport costs were added to the costs of the item itself

Yes, here in the UK the Revenue services state that the value of the item(s) alone is used to determine if VAT payment is required (no VAT only if <£18), if it is then the transport costs are included in the calculation.
#91

Mine are in the UK! Received a notice from the local Parcelforce office. Nice printed notice detailing what I have to pay - exactly as I had calculated: 20% VAT on price + shipping, and an 8 pound "clearance fee" (AKA: what we charge you for taking your tax money and sending it to HMRC).


#92

Well, I have them now! a 15C LE # 01225 and 12C AE # 07362
Samson Cable price $99.99 each (ordered on 01 Sept '11), $35.00 combined shipping.

Charged to card = GBP 153.50 (includes bank fees) + GBP 36.51 (VAT + handling fees) = GBP 190.01 or GBP 95.005 each (I'll take a hacksaw to that penny ;-)).


I could have paid Parcelforce on the internet and they would have delivered, however I was impatient and went to get it in person. Took all of 5 mins at the depot to pay and collect.

For those interested,
this is the import tax invoice from ParcelForce.


Edited: 1 Oct 2011, 4:27 a.m.


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