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The perils of asking questions on ebay



#19

Some time ago I took the advice of many and asked a series of questions on a HP38 (I think) for sale on the UK ebay site.

The item was reasonably described but a bit breif. The photo's showed a half lit display. So I asked the questions like 'If you put new batteries in does the display improve and show "all 8's", do all the buttons work, what does the calc come with...'

The seller answered with all the right answers so I thought this would be the one to go for. However the seller posted a new photo with the display corectly lit, added text saying that all the buttons worked etc. This atracted many more buyers and the price went way above what I was expecting. I can't blame the seller for doing this, he got a good price.

So the moral of the story is: If the calc looks good enough, the seller looks honest and the price is low it may be better NOT to ask too many detailed questions... or ask them late in the auction so the listing is not updated. I hope peole don't think I'm being deceptive with this advice, after all any buyer can ask questions and with an auction it is supposed to be a buyers market (if the seller is honest and does not bid on his own items).

PS If the price is high already then you MUST ask questions.


#20

I think it's too late for those sort of concerns. The genie really is out of the bottle with regard to HP calculator prices. The fortunate people are really the ones who own something they enjoy, and don't get too worked up about what they don't own. Who among us wouldn't have been delighted with an HP 49G or Ti 92 at the start of our calculating careers, yet these calculators don't seem to be respected at all!

I often wonder: Is collecting good for one?

Thanks, David


#21

If the HP49 had been available twentyfive years ago, yes, I would have been very excited to own one. Today, I can't see anyone get *excited* over a calculator when real computers with much more computing power can be had for almost as much money. It is an artifact of a broken educational system that these things are still being sold. Certainly no engineer needs one.


#22

John I can't agree that one shouldn't get excited over a calculator: A small, low-power, fast-boot device with no Windows or Linux overhead and which can perform symbolic manipulations - that still sounds exciting to me!

When a calculator "fits" the task at hand, then a nice experience results.

Thanks, David

#23

john; please do not take this as a personal attack, i don't even know what branch of engineering you are talking about, but i disagree with you about your computers vs calculators statement.

i am constantly, as in every week, finding large expensive errors in things i am supposed to build that were made "by or under the direction of" registered professionals using the latest computers and software. most of these would not be made by someone doing the calcs on a handheld. by far the most common reason stuff gets designed wrong seems to be that it is so easy to make a pretty picture in autocad type programs that no one bothers to check if it can be constructed in three dimensional space or not. other reasons like the structural engineer and architect not communicating or the survey field crew doing layout for a wall that does not exist because someone in the office grabbed the wrong line on the screen would also be caught more often if someone who could do more than play etch-a sketch was looking at the product.

yes i agree that those fancy computers can do a lot - and do it fast. but they can sure print up garbage too, faster and i believe more often than the ways we learned first. - d


#24

Besides of all that has been said on the computers vs calculators debate in this thread: For me it's just a great joy to create intelligent, sophisticated solutions on a limited machine with a limited operating system and limited programming language. Besides, I'm not at all talking about those powerful, unbelievable versatile machines like a 48G or 49G, but I'm talking about a 41C or even a 25! Passionate programming machines like the 41 indeed might turn into beautiful art: just think of Synthetic Programming! However, to my opinion the calculator still has a serious meaning in the field of science (and business, just remind the 12C). Just imagine a situation where you have the need for a quick programmed math application. As for me, I'd truly prefer my calc solution over a big C++ fuss on a PC which most probably even took significantly more time ... but also much less fun :-)


#25

I understand exactly what Juergen is saying. I have been active in the comp.sys.hp48 newsgroup for awhile, but all they want when thay talk about dream calcs, are supt up Gameboys. I very much like the people and information in this forum over the newsgroup.

I started out with the 41cx and moved up from there through the different models to the 48gx. But when I want to do some quick and dirty number crunching I revert to the 41cx or 42s. I don't know what others use as CAD programs, but I use AutoCAD Map, and I have to reach for a calculator to do some calculation the the CAD program does not do or I have to do a conversion that it does not do. Besides its easier to carry a 4oz. calc out in the field than it is to carry a 5lb. computer and it is up to speed and ready for work as soon as you hit the on key. No waiting for the OS to find itself before you can do anything.

#26

CAD systems (I've only used electronic-CAD systems, but I guess the same applies to mechanical ones) are undoubtedly useful tools. But like all tools, they need to be used correctly.
A CAD ssytem will not turn an unknowledgable person into a good engineer, no matter what the marketing types will tell you and what many managers seem to believe.
I've got countless examples of circuits that a CAD sysetm will tell you will 'work', but which could never work in practice, or they'd be too sensitive to component value changes, or...
Conversely, I've got circuits that _no_ CAD system (that I've tried) gets 'right' (I mean that the predicted behaviour is totally difffernet from the observed behaviour).
What this means (at least to me) is that the results of CAD systems need to be checked carefully, by somebody who actually knows what they are doing. Most of the time it doesn't take too long to spot
gross errors....
But for a lot of tasks the CAD system is overkill. I have found I can design with pen and paper and solder up the prototype in less time than it takes most people to use the CAD system. I will use a computer when it truely _AIDs_ me. Until then, I'll stick with the pen, paper, and HP...

#27

Clearly I am not an engineer, because I most definitely _do_ need a handheld calculator. And I use it for something that would generally be called 'engineering'.
I guess if you're the sort of engineer who designs things on a CAD system and gets somebody else to make one then you don't need a calculator. But I design with pen and paper (it's quicker, and I understand what is going on). I build the device myself (solder up the circuit boards, program the microocontrollers/ROMs,
machine the mechanical parts, etc). A PC is totally useless for that sort of thing. I need a calculator that can sit on my workbench next to the 'scope and DVM one minute (it's even better if it can connect to the test instruments, as the HP41 can), and on the lathe bed the next.
Yes, I do use my HPs for something other than just playing with calculators!

#28

The UK HP market is small and fairly quiet. The bargain days have gone but there are some good buys especialy those that look as though they don't work very well or have minor damage.

I'd guess both the US and UK buyers have difficulty buying from each others markets because of postal and exchange costs.


#29

Hi there, my first entry to this site...

I am about to list an HP calculator on e-bay, and thought I'd chime in. It's an HP-27S.

I looked at the most recent calculators that sold that were the same as mine...

$255 - mint condition, includes manual
$157.50 - mind condition, includes manual and destroyed original box
$46.02 - battered calculator, no battery case or manual, listed only for parts

Now, my calculator isn't mint, but it's in EXCELLENT shape, considering it was born (according to the serial number and the guide to using it on this site) in the 28th week of 1988. I have the protective case, and I'm 90% certain that I have the manual. I sure as heck don't have the box.

My conundrum is just what the heck I should be expecting for this calculator. E-bay can hyper-inflate the price of a lot of things, but the difference between $255 and $157.50 is staggering...it is either TIMING (a bunch of people who desperately want it at the same time) or, as referenced on this site, shills and thieves are at work.

Either way, I just wanted to say that as a seller, it can also be confusing.

Patrick


#30

Ahh, the subtle wonders of Ebay. I have paid from $25 to $250 for PPC ROM modules there. Same thing, same condition. You get whatever the market will give at the time. Frankly, nothing could be fairer... illogical, puzzling, just plain stupid... but basic supply and demand economics at its finest.

List it with a low starting bid (reserves are just plain stupid), spin the wheel, and see what the ebay roulette wheel will cough up. Almost all HP calulator items have enough bidders where you (probably) won't be taken.

As far as the difference between $250 and $150 for a mint item versus nice item is concerned, you are in the realm of collectibles. A microscopic (literally) nick on a rare coin can mean the difference between a piece of pocket change and something that will bring thousands of dollars. A MINT-in-box HP65 can bring over $2000, a REALLY nice one a few hundred.

#31

I just listed two HP-14B calculators, mint in plastic, one right after the other.

The first went for $52.00 . (Obviously there's not much market for a low-end financial, even in mint condition.)

The second went for $20.00 . (?)

One difference: the second auction ended on the afternoon of July 4th. (And was bought by someone in Australia!)

So, I suspect you want your auction to end late afternoon or evening on a non-holiday weekend.


#32

Apparently the best results on Ebay occur when the auction ends around 9 on Sunday evenings EST..

#33

I was the seller of that $157.50 MIB one. The problem was as someone else mentioned here, I mistakenly ended the auction on July 4. Big mistake, because it certainly should have gone for at least $200, maybe a lot more -- it was perfect! But that's what auctions are all about; sometimes you do better than expected other times worse. You could use a reserve price to protect yourself against selling too low, but I think that limits the number of bidders and hence the momentum and besides it's not very sporting!


#34

And one can pick up a nice, boxed HP21 for less than 50 bucks... ;)


#35

Wait for auctions that end on Christmas morning...

Some months ago I bought a piece of ancient gear on eBay... was the only bidder, but thought that (as usual) more bidders would jump in at the last seconds. Little did I know how cheaply I was to pick up that piece of equipment, the morning of Sept 11, 2001...

I even emailed the seller to say he could relist under the circumstances and I would not mind. He would have none of that: he said I was probably the only one who really wanted it anyway-- and that those who wait, lose. I appreciated that!

Nowadays when you can bid with a "bot" at the last seconds or have outbid alerts sent to your cellphone, I wonder if sellers really have to worry so much about whether to schedule around such things as sporting events and holidays, or maybe the REAL bugaboo is selling an HP65 on the same week as two others are being marketed.

-------

On occasions, I have seen people interested in one auction transfer their attentions to a later auction when the first item reaches a certain price barrier-- and other times I have seen some things virtually ignored in favor of others, because one says mint IN BOX and mentions no batteries or power adapter, and the other has both but no box.

Collectors are obviously driving the market in those cases-- for users need no box, but collectors know the box is worth more than a power-brick. (If I had a time-machine, I'd go back and ask new buyers just to let me have their packaging!!)

Won't future collectors be the poorer over the introduction of the "blister pack", which you can't open without destroying? ;-)


#36

As any Star Wars collector will tell you, one NEVER opens the package... there was even a Simpsons cartoon on the subject.


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