HP-41C SKWIDBC Barcode Generation ROM



#29

Does anyone have a manual or instructions?


#30

Already checked on TOS?


#31

nothing shows up in USA...


#32

Not TAS, but TOS instead. It's an HP41 related ORG website;-)

I just looked, it's there, although as single pages download.

Edited: 4 Sept 2011, 12:59 p.m.


#33

Hey, what's the URL of TAS? I think I saw someone once post it means "That auction site". Googling for "That auction site" brings up no link to such site however. And searching for "TAS" brings up a lot of results related to Tasmania.

Thanks.

Edited: 4 Sept 2011, 1:57 p.m.


#34

There is the well known auction site but there is also The Other Site, a web site dealing with HP calculators (especially the HP41) which should not be directly linked to because there are issues with copyrighted material from HP. You'll find it. :-)


#35

There is a disagreement between the museum curator and the TOS site creator about whether there is a problem with materials on the TOS site.

The TOS creator has stated on multiple times that he has written permission to host the materials on his site. The museum curator here does not believe that is possible or correct.

So, what to do? :-)


#36

It's an issue nonetheless, even if it's "only" between the two curators. We are guests here and thus have to adhere to the rules set-up by our host.


#37

Agreed, not disputing that.

I was just making sure that someone reading that did not automatically assume that there WAS an issue with copyright with the materials at TOS.

The TOS site curator has paperwork from someone at HP that he claims authorizes the distribution of the materials.

The Museum curator seems to have been told by someone else at HP that that is hogwash.

Hence, the dispute. That's all I was trying to clarify. :-)

Edited: 5 Sept 2011, 9:26 a.m.

#38

Well, it is indeed somewhat confusing for the newcomer to figure out what "TOS" means. For myself, it took some time to get behind it.

I have to admit that my first contact over the internet to HP41-related material led me to TOS. The site really offers a whole cornucopia of documents related to that calculator and its peripherals. I was astounded of the collection and wondered why HP did not sue against TOS. May be there is a secret standstill agreement between TOS and HP. However, I can not imagine that the offering of so much HP41 material is the base of the dispute between HP-Museum and TOS. It would be HP's part to undertake something against the practice of TOS. But why should the Museum curator bother? Does no other than the curator have the right to disseminate material of discontinued HP calculators?


#39

my thoughts exactly...

#40

For me, it's not a question of whether TOS violates copyrights or not. It's not a question of whether the curator has acted appropriately or not. What stands out for me is the notice that appears on this posting form:

Posting indicates your agreement with the Museum of HP Calculators Terms of Use

It's right above the buttons for previewing or posting. That trumps the discussion, in my mind.


#41

Well, I confess I still am in the dark. I suppose the unmentionable site is either HPCC.org or HPCalc.org - whoops!

What part of the TOU applies to this discussion about either of these sites?


#42

Those are both OK. If you can post them to the forum without their text being filtered out, and you receiving a stern warning, then they aren't TOS.

Its in the org domain. with .org on the end. It's concerned with the hp-41c, but the webmaster doesn't like hyphens.

:)

#43

Hmm, I see what you mean. There's no specific exclusion for TOS, but there is a section that I believe relates to it:

Quote:
You agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or by this forum. You also agree not to use this forum to request or trade copies of copyrighted material. For example, most ROMs are copyrighted. Therefore, it is OK to buy and sell original ROM chips or calculators containing original ROM chips but in most cases it is not OK to buy and sell copies of those ROMs or ROM image files..

I believe I remember the curator worrying about contributory infringement if he allowed links to copyrighted materials, ROMS in particular, at another site. Turns out he may be correct about that, given the Pirate Bay and others recently. (I'm sure we could have a long discussion over that, but let's not. :)

I do think HP could clear things up by simply cutting those ROMS loose, but notice that they have just retrieved one of those from the past and issued it as the HP-15C LE. I remember several years ago when Eric removed the Voyager ROMs from Nonpareil saying that HP had asked him to do so. Seeing the 15C come out now connects the dots for me on that one.

There are several 15C software clones out there and my guess is that many are using the original ROM. HP has never gone after any of them. They haven't tried to stop Victor from selling that laughably trashy hardware 12C clone either. They haven't moved legally against anyone distributing old ROMs, so far as I know. But they clearly demure from giving their old IP away wholesale. As long as that's the case, I can understand the curator's point of view.


Edited: 5 Sept 2011, 11:21 p.m.


#44

I don't think either Victor or Aurora used the actual HP firmware. On the other hand, it does appear that the manual for the Aurora infringed the copyright of HP's manual.


#45

I thought it was pretty clear that they did. Did I miss something?

TW


#46

To the extent that the keyboard test terminates with a "12" on success. Or at least so I have heard--I don't actually own one.

Seems pretty clear to me.

-Marwan

#47

Clear that the Aurora copied the manual, the firmware, or both?

I haven't compared the manual myself, but others have said that it was a blatant copy.

There are enough differences in the calculator's behavior that it seems unlikely to me that they copied the firmware. However, I have not tried to extract firmware from it.


#48

Sorry, I retract my earlier statements. I was thinking of this calculator.

Cheers,

-Marwan

#49

I have 3 12C-like calculators, here's my take on them.

Victor V-12: Is likely a modified copy of the first version of the 12CP source code. It doesn't allow for CF(0) to be changed -- this was only in the early 12CP and it doens't implement the self tests.

Compucessory CCS28956: Is also a modified version of the an early version of the 12CP source code. However, it implements the undo functions, has the same self tests (but they make no sense since the key mappings are all wrong) and adds in some new code for cost/sell/margin.

Aurora FN1000: This appears to be a re-implementation of the original 12C. The self tests are similar but not identical and it adds a COM key that (I think) performs the same mode setting as <STO> <EEX> in the original 12C.

In short: I don't think any of these are ROM image clones, but likely the Victor and definitely the Compucessory are based on copied source code.

-Katie


#50

Quote:
In short: I don't think any of these are ROM image clones, but likely the Victor and definitely the Compucessory are based on copied source code.

I feel like I have to own these as a collector, but they make me feel a little slimy. :(

#51

The 12CP source being used in the V-12 is entirely possible since that code was apparently developed by Kinpo from HP docs. Depending on what kind of contract HP signed with Kinpo when they had the 12CP design done, this may or may not be legal. Also, HP may or may not be interested in going to court in Taiwan over a few poor imitations of the 12CP.

#52

There were many related threads here in the hpmuseum forum years ago.

TAS means That Auction Site aka *Bay, TOS means the HP41 site with the ORG domain.

Note there is no "-" in the name, so just add the domain, and you're there...

Why all this obfuscation? Ask the museum curator and the maintainer of TOS

Maybe they finally have solved their issues, so that the one can spell out the full web site name w/o getting filtered.


#53

There's actually no filter in the forum software for "eBay," as there is for TOS. People were complaining about all the auctions a few years back, and TAS was coined as a joke on TOS.

#54

Dunno, but I found this interesting program. :-)


#55

LOL!

#56

Very clever! I was pretty sure what it was but I just had to dig my wand out just to make sure <g>.

Cheers,

-Marwan


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