New HP Solve issue now posted at HP site

[Gene Wright]

New HP Solve issue is out

[Mark Harman]

Thanks for the link, Gene.

I read Palmer Hanson's interesting article on algebraic, with its comparison and contrast to RPN. He made the point at the end of the article:

Quote:

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Here's a possible solution for calculators which offer both RPN and algebraic: RPNers frequently use RollDown and x<>y. Algebraic users rarely, if ever, do. Why not share the RollDown function with the left parenthesis function and the x<>y function with the right parenthesis function with the software deciding which option to use depending on which mode the calculator is in.

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I actually think HP has gone in the right direction with having already done this on both the 20b and 30b.

Mark

[Katie Wasserman]

Isn't this exactly what HP did in 1990 on the 17bii?

[Mark Harman]

Actually, on the 17bII and 17bII+, the roll down and x<>y functions are shifted. Even with the most recent versions, this is the case. On the 20b and 30b, the roll down and x<>y functions share the keys with the parentheses and are engaged based upon the mode that is selected. This functionality is what Palmer is suggesting as a solution.

Mark

Edited: 19 Jan 2011, 10:56 p.m.

[Bruce Bergman]

Um, no I don't think that's right. I don't have my 17bii+ around right now, but when it is in RPN mode, the parenthesis function as the swap and drop keys. I distinctly remember that being the case.

Can anyone confirm or deny?

thanks,

Bruce

[Mark Harman]

I guess I could be wrong as I have never used the 17bII+ in RPN - just algebraic when it was on a store display a number of years ago. What I have seen in pics, and in person, have suggested to me that they are shifted functions. However, I can concede to the idea that the key cap labeling is idiosyncratic.

Regards,

Mark

[Bruce Bergman]

Ah, it's definitely a shifted function in algebraic, yes.

(I've been searching through piles for the last hour trying to find my 17bii+ now... lol)

Thanks,

Bruce

[Katie Wasserman]

I've got a 17bii (not a 17bii+) in front of me:

In ALG mode parens are available without shifting, while in RPN mode the unshifted-paren keys are roll-down and swap. You can shift for these if you'd like to but the shift is not needed.

Additionally, in ALG mode you can use the roll-down and swap functions if you shift first.

Edited: 20 Jan 2011, 2:15 a.m.

[Walter B]

Same for 17bii+ Silver.

[Martin Pinckney]

Quote:

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I read Palmer Hanson's interesting article on algebraic...

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I, too enjoyed this article, and I like Palmer's categorization of the three main types of "algebraic" calculators.

Nitpicking, Palmer, I wish you had included reference to the "almost algebraic" HP's that operate similar to the TI's you mentioned, such as 20s, 21s, 22s and 27s.

Except I would further break them down into those that do or don't actually display the parentheses. I.E., some are more "almost" than others!