HP 35s case change?



#38

Hi everyone and thanks in advance;

I just bought a replacement HP35s at a ubiquitous US "big box" retailer and found that the case it came with is a rather cheap "slip" affair. Has there been a change? I prefer the zip cases and have considered picking up another spare HP35s - but want to ensure that I get the proper case. Fortunately I saved the case left over from the "expended in duty" calculator, so I swapped it out. The calculator appears authentic (comparing to my remaining spare).

Anyone know what is going on, and where I can pick up another spare HP35s with zipper case? 'Can't have enough spare RPN calcs....

Thanks again,
Morse


#39

Both of my zip cases no longer zip rendering them useless, and they're very little used. (I no linger use either. I feel the calculator was a huge disappointment regardless of how many here extoll the the notion HP is "on the right track" with reproducing calculators.)

I would much rather have a (quality) slip case than a zippy one that fails after 50 uses.


#40

Hi Chuck

Faced with the same problem I only recently realized that it works when I pull the tab of the slider perpendicular to the zip case.

Hope this helps

Thomas


#41

Hi Thomas,

Thanks for the tip. I thought it was working, but it split again after about three inches. The killer for both zippers on each case are the corners; round the corners and she splits open. I'm not horribly upset because I was only going to repurpose the cases for pencil and pen pouches (since I don't use the 35s' anymore.)

CHUCK

#42

Hi,

there is an online seller where you can buy the 35s zipper cases w/o the calc. They look good, but unfortunately they seem to be of very poor quality. I did not use the calc, but both zippers of my 35s case are defective, and the batteries of the calc are empty. Not too good for an anniversary item.

OT: The protective case of the 12c anniversary edition also was a failure, but for different reasons. The 12c anniversary case is so bulky, ugly and impracticable that I doubt anyone is using it.

HTH

Raymond


#43

Quote:
The protective case of the 12c anniversary edition also was a failure, but for different reasons.

Bulky it was, but it also used magnets, and I made the mistake one day of placing my HP-65 standard pac next to or on top of that case, and I lost all the standard pac programs. After that, I relegated that case to the closet.

And, yes, I realize that other cases (like the 17bii+) use magnets too.


#44

When you say you lost all your 65 std pac, is that forever, or can you rewrite from somewhere?


#45

I've got the manual, which has all the code in it, if I wanted to enter the code and write it to a new mag strip. Or maybe I could rewrite it on the existing mag strip, but I think they are notched as read-only so that might require some trick with scotch tape or something.

So, no, they are not lost forever, it was just a disappointment when I tried to read one that had previously worked and it wouldn't read, then I tried another with the same result, and I eventually figured out why they were all wiped out.

Magnet-laden cases and mag strips from the 70's are not a good combination!

Don


#46

Hi Don,

how about replacing the magnets by Velcro strips?

HTH


#47

That would probably work fine, but I'd have to cut into the case to remove the magnets and I'd rather not do that. I don't use the 12c Platinum 25th anniversary edition much since the fast 12c+ came out about a year ago; that's the one I play with these days. So mostly the platinum sits in its case in the closet.

#48

Don, you can write to protected cards easily with an "unprotect" card - take an old card that you aren't otherwise using and cut its bottom right corner off so its right side is at a 45 degree slope to the upper right corner. Then, if you gently put that into the exit port of the card reader (the left slot), you can write to a protected (cut corner) card. The protected card will push this one out of its way as it goes through, but this card's pointed corner will fill the gap of the protected card's cut corner, fooling the HP-65 (or HP-67 or HP-97).

My '67 and '97 card collection has had such a card in it since 1976. Useful tool!


#49

Thanks Jim, I didn't know about that trick.

#50

I purchased a backup 35S recently and had left it in the package. After seeing your post I went and checked... Sure enough, it did not come with the zippered case. It also did not come with a manual. I realize that replacing manuals with CD's saves HP money, but I really like to be able to browse a manual away from my computer.


#51

here we go again: cost-cutting and corner-shaving on a product that could have been better to begin with. The pattern repeats itself.

And still there're those who believe a 41S will ever be done? I'm not holding my breath - and besides, the 41CL will be such a machine (or: the best replacement for a 41 is.. a faster 41!)


#52

Cost saving has very little to do with it.

The shape, size and most importantly *thickness* of a retail package is dictated almost exclusively by the stores which will say something like "to even be considered on my shelf you must have X number of units per Y sized box, and each must fit within W, H and be no more than T or I won't even consider giving you shelf space". It is the same for any retail item and will not change regardless how much you or I desire it.

TW

Edited: 27 Sept 2010, 9:36 a.m.


#53

Interesting. I am not, and have never been, in retail and I had no idea that such things were dictated by the stores selling the product.


#54

Bonjour M.,

Quote:
I had no idea that such things were dictated by the stores selling the product.

Tim was talking about real big shop chains in the USA, I assume, like Office Depot. We don't have too many of these stores in Europe, so the relations between manufacturer and store may be different here.

#55

Hi Walter,

Yes, I did realize that Tim was talking about the big stores that can dictate such things. I also realize (or I would have had I thought about it for any length of time--I was being a little provincial) from the fair amount of time I have spent in Europe over the years that Europe is a little different.

Cheers.

#56

So if I read this right, the HP 35s was first released only direct from HP, complete with the printed manual and zipper case. HP designed it this way, because it was the either the company policy to provide these accessories with the calculator as a matter of course, or because marketing determined that it would sell better as a professional tool if so supplied.

Then marketing decided the calculator needed to be in stores as well, and the chains insisted that the packaging be reduced to fit in their schemes. So HP complied.

But HP still sells them direct from their own website complete with the printed manual and zippered case, correct?

At least the "PDF version of all specs" on the HP website still says

Quote:
What's in the box - Calculator, batteries, user manual, premium protective case.


#57

Nope. I got mine directly from HP during their 15% off sale. No zippered case, no manual. I actually called to see if manuals were still available and was told that I could get them from a third party but that HP was not selling them.

Now I could always call back and hope that a different person gives me a different answer...


Actually that does not surprise me. I think it would probably be a headache to try to figure out what inventory goes where. Makes sense to just comply with the request of the big retailers. I just wish that the manuals were still available for purchase. I have several newer editions that did not come with manuals, including, as you noted, the HP50g. I seem to remember getting some sort of manual with my HP49g+ but I can't seem to find it.


Edited: 27 Sept 2010, 6:30 p.m.


#58

Quote:
Nope.

So maybe cost does have a little something to do with it?
#59

Quote:
I think it would probably be a headache to try to figure out what inventory goes where.



Actually, it's not. I would assume HP has a sufficient number space of GTINs available, so nothing would stop them to offer a "premium" and a "cost-saving" model.

And "we only have limited shelf space" is less than half the truth. More space is easily available - you just have to pay for it. Considering the enormous size of a calculator, it's probably not a lot.

So this leads us to the whole truth: cost reduction and (more) profit. This is rather annoying, as this calc isn't quite a 1$-shop item, nor did the manufacturing costs for a zippered case explode beyond belief...
#60

Quote:
I actually called to see if manuals were still available and was told that I could get them from a third party but that HP was not selling them.

Yea, just got off the phone and apparently they stopped that
deal recently. I'd requested my manual at the beginning of
the year.

I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it. The rigid binding of
the manual isn't exactly hp-friendly. I was planning to
cut the binding off of it and spiral or comb bind it to
lie flat in use. But it might not be too different just
printing off and binding a copy scaled to a size you actually
would want to lug around. Assuming you're inclined to
lug around the 35s itself given it isn't quite a "pocket"
footprint.

#61

Thanks for the info - now I know to be on the lookout for zip cased models. Anyone know which retailer has which?

Sorry to read about the negative experiences with the zip cases from some out there. FWIW, my experiences with the zip case have been very positive. The zip case on my "daily use" HP35s has held up since they first came out, with the calculator in and out of the case more than once daily on average. It even withstood service as an "emergency mailer" from Japan one time, just wrapped in plain paper. Both zippered case and denshi jisho (electronic dictionary) made it back in one piece, and the case went right back into service on my everyday HP35s.

All the best,
Morse


#62

I have to agree, the case is (was) the best thing about the 35s. The zipper works reliably every time I use it, which is more than I can say about the calculator inside the case. But I seem to recall an incidence where someone here reported the elastic in the case was sewn at the wrong location covering either their display or top row of keys. IOW typical hp hit or miss quality.


#63

Quote:
..recall an incidence where someone here reported the elastic in the case was sewn at the wrong location covering either their display or top row of keys. IOW typical hp hit or miss quality.

Hearing stuff like this is just painful. HP was one of the
engineer's engineering companies in its day. I recall an
ad run in a trade rag right around 1985 where a (IIRC) signal
generator fell out of a airplane cargo area in flight, plummeting
into a field. Somehow they managed to recover it and drug the
remains into the lab. The case was toast but the instrument
was still in calibration.

Closer to home I heard of a case where a calc user left the
unit where it received a fatal dose of radiation. The user
contacted HP wondering if service was even possible. HP
offered to send him a new calc if he would return the nuked
unit back to them for study. That is (sigh, was) an engineering
company.

#64

Quote:
It also did not come with a manual. I realize that replacing manuals with CD's saves HP money, but I really like to be able to browse a manual away from my computer.

I find this to be a far greater shortcoming than the quality / type of case. The quality of the printed manuals used to be what set HP apart from the competition. Were it not for the excellent printed manuals that came with my HP 48SX, I'd still be fumbling around trying to figure out how to efficiently use my HP 50g.


#65

>>>...Were it not for the excellent printed manuals that came with my HP 48SX, I'd still be fumbling around trying to figure out how to efficiently use my HP 50g...<<<

Agreed that the manual is important to fully utilize a programmable like the 48G, but for a simple scientific, I tend to wing it.

However, a first rate case is a must over here, since I carry the calculator at work and need to be able to hold/use it with one hand while writing on the board with the other. The zip case is perfect, since it offers good protection in the event of a drop, yet allows me to use the thing one-handed.

Everyday carry of the calculator pretty much sours the larger models for me, since they tend to damage my suit's pockets (too heavy). And I can't stand the odd placement of the tiny enter key on the 50G; what were they thinking?!

Argh! I just wish HP would get its act together and repurpose the 12C for scientific use. If they came out with a limited edition of 15C's I would stock up on the things, even if the keyboards aren't quite up to their old standard.

Vent over. All the best,
Morse


#66

Quote:
I can't stand the odd placement of the tiny enter key on the 50G; what were they thinking?!

At least they corrected that fundamental mistake of having the ENTER key in a key column different from the column with the / * - + keys. When HP shifted the / * - + keys to the right side while leaving the ENTER on the left side a couple of decades ago, it made key manipulation much more awkward and inefficient. It doesn't matter which side is chosen, but these five keys should *always* be in the same column.

I'd like to see a 50 percent wider HP 50G ENTER key, positioned *above* the / * - + keys. The additional key space which that would consume could be made up by arranging the arrow keys in the same manner as that of the HP 48GX (which would free two additional key locations of the HP 50G keyboard).

Quote:
Argh! I just wish HP would get its act together and repurpose the 12C for scientific use.If they came out with a limited edition of 15C's I would stock up.

I find absolutely nothing good about the landscape keyboard layout for a machine that may be used as a handheld. It is very awkward to hold and use a Voyager calculator in one hand.

I would be very enthusiastic about a scientific in the new HP 30b configuration. It's a joy to use in one hand.


#67

Just my feelings...

But the ENTER key should be on the left and the operation keys should line up with the numeric keypad not offset one key above the numeric keys as they are in the 50g.

I'll never understand why they moved the operator keys to the right side. Maybe it had something to do with the Voyager design? Am I right in saying that this was the first calculator with the operator keys on the right side? After that everything moved over. Maybe they did this for consistency among the different designs?

At any rate, I agree, the Enter key should be stacked above the operator keys. Give us back the layout of the 41C and the earlier calcs. And as pointed out, if extra keys are needed go back to the 48S/X 48G/X layout with the cursor keys. I liked it better anyway.

Cheers


#68

Quote:
I'll never understand why they moved the operator keys to the right side. Maybe it had something to do with the Voyager design?

The 41c and previous had Enter and operators on left. Voyagers went to operators on the right, Enter in the center. Pioneers, then 28c/s, 48 series kept operators on right, put Enter back on left. Ditto 35s, 20,30b. 49, 50 series put all on right. Confusing?

#69

Exactly. Just put everything back on the left where it belongs except for the Voyager series (right now limited to the 12C).

In a sense, if you think of just the numeric portion of the keyboard, everything since the Voyagers follows the Voyager layout--enter on left operator keys on right--of course the Voyager enter is vertical and on the same level as the numeric keys but that is a side effect of the landscape layout. However, the Voyager is a completely different layout and, IMHO, does not have to match the vertical format calculators, or vice versa as appears to be the case.

Also, with the Voyager, the order of the operator keys all changed. It went from - + * / on all the models from the 35 to the 41C (as far as I can tell) to / * - + on all the later calcs. I have lots of fun switching between my 48SX and my 41C. Switching to the HP50 is even more "fun".


#70

Having the operator keys on the right always seemed natural to me, since I started with a TI 59, then went to Pioneers, 38g, 48sx in that order (though I still use the Pioneers).

I had not thought much about the position of the Enter key before now, and it certainly seems logical that it should be grouped with the operator keys. Nevertheless, I have been used to it on the left so long, that is not an issue for me.


#71

I also would favor these five keys being grouped on the right, with a wider ENTER key at the top. I think that works much better than the old classic HP all-on-the-left design, at least for right-handed individuals.

The Voyager and later models which split the ENTER or INPUT key from the arithmetic operator keys represent poor human factoring. That appraisal applies even to the new HP 30b. Putting the ENTER/INPUT key on the side opposite the / * - + keys is the very worst possible layout.

I suspect that the continuation of this unfortunate key arrangement for models which appeared after the Voyager series (whose awkward landscape layout forced the awkward separation) is simply some HP manager's unthinking and wholly arbitrary decision. While HP learned their lesson about the poor handling qualities of landscape layout, the obviously poor separated key column design still persists today in most HP models.


#72

I guess, at least in part, it is what one is used to. I used the HP-41C and it's derivatives on an almost daily basis from 1980 through the early 90's before I began collecting some of the newer HP calculators. I have never found the "all-on-the-left" placement awkward and am not sure of the advantages for a right-handed person of all-on-the-right (I am right handed btw). I have to say that I even prefer the split arrangement with the double-wide enter key on the left to the stacked all-on-the-right arrangement found in the 49/50. However, that said, if it has to be all-on-the-right, please, please, please put the enter key on top and make it double-wide.

I have followed this forum over the years but not very closely. I have to wonder how many times this discussion has come up. It seems to me that it could be one of those things that generates very strong opinions.

Edited: 30 Sept 2010, 12:55 a.m.


#73

Quote:
I guess, at least in part, it is what one is used to.

Well, I was "used to" that classsic configuration. I was a sophmore at Georgia Tech when the HP-35 was announced. I used the HP-35 and -45 that friends had, but I couldn't afford my own HP until a couple of years after graduation with a B.E.E. when I got an HP-67.

In spite of my accustomization to the old "all-on-left-side" keys,
there was obviously never any justification for it, other than who ever specified it must have been left-handed (and very very evil :-) ). Though I was used to the left side keys, I knew a right side placement was more sensible for most, who are right handed.

It's a pity that HP didn't establish the all-on-right-side convention, and worse, then continues to put the ENTER/INPUT keys on the opposite side of the / * - + keys on most models from the past three decades. That's just plain stupid. I think that HP dosen't give a damn. The correction of such fundamental errors would not cost a penny before a new calculator like the HP30b is produced.


Edited: 30 Sept 2010, 3:44 a.m.

#74

Quote:


I find this to be a far greater shortcoming than the quality / type of case. The quality of the printed manuals used to be what set HP apart from the competition. Were it not for the excellent printed manuals that came with my HP 48SX, I'd still be fumbling around trying to figure out how to efficiently use my HP 50g.


I saw Eric Rechlin's (hpcalc.org) printed manuals at HHC2010 this weekend and won one as a door prize. They are really wonderful, laser printed on nice paper with heavy stock for the front and back covers and high quality spiral bindings so they lay flat when open. If you need manuals, get them from him.


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