My HP 35s keyboard improvements



#27

I love the new HP 35s and would make a couple of minor changes to the keyboard. I think these changes make an already fantastic product even better. (The original unmodified image is from hpcalc.org)

In this picture I have replaced the left-shift and right-shift keys with a modern take on 'f' and 'g'. I believe this change is an improvement given the key label placements, which are above and below the primary labels; not to the left or right of them.

The +/- key has been replaced with CHS which I prefer for aesthetic, logic, and consistency reasons. I consider it more correct.

Although I would like to repaint the keys on my 35s, I'm not certain just how to go about it.

For the yellow and blue backgrounds on the 'f' and 'g' keys, I'm considering using enamel paint and letraset rub-on letters. I am not certain how to do the CHS key, although I have a few ideas in mind.

I'm new to the HP world and to this forum - are there people who do this sort of repair or customization work on calculator keys, and have these proposed changes already been discussed somewhere? If there is a custom shop I could send my calculator to in order to have these changes done professionally, I would do so.

Many thanks!


Edited: 6 Jan 2010, 3:09 p.m.


#28

Amen, brother. You hit the main ones, but more would include (these
have been mentioned before) MILE and KM in lower case, give L.R two
periods, and for sure put A...F as hex labels. It's funny how this
buggy little beast has such a love/hate relationship with us!

Regards, Glenn


#29

My quibble is with the the time conversions symbol to decimal hr. on the keyboard.

All the other conversions have an arrow pointing to the new units but what should read ->HR (like on my 32Sii) reads HMS-> so the symbol tells you where you're coming from but not where you are going!

I would also switch R/S and Sigma+ which is more like the 41 but maybe that's just me.

#30

Move the cursor "compass" keys (up, down, left, right) one row down, leaving a six-key row below the LCD that would be labeled with "A"-"F" for hexadecimal input . . .

Oh. You're talking about changes that are actually possible using an existing 35s? Well, then, I guess you've got most of them.

Really, very nice looking! HP will do well to consult their rabid fan base when designing the keyboard for their HP-35sII+ Ultra Turbo Palladium LX Commemorative Special Edition.

(Personally, I think the "f" & "g" would invoke extraneous and misleading -- albeit historical -- UI elements, just as do the left & right arrows. I'd like to see simply a yellow patch on the keyboard face immediately above the upper shift key, and a blue patch on the front face of the lower shift key.)

Edited: 6 Jan 2010, 5:54 p.m.


#31

I miss a dedicated store key instead of a roll key. Is there anyone that can't convert inches to cms or F to C degrees? I think that is trivial. Sam


#32

I like the conversions although in my field, more appropriate would be (in) -> (mm) but I digress. Yes it's trivial but there is always the case of messing up the conversion factor when you type it in. Also F->C is a two step conversion so 2 chances to type in the wrong thing.

But, all the conversions could be Under a couple menus and that would free up a lot of space.

And Yes, Yes, Yes to a dedicated Store function.


#33

I too find conversions useful. But there are so many possible choices to put on a pocket calculator, that no matter what ones the designers include, each user will want something different. That's one reason I like the rich conversion capabilities of the 48 series.

Also a good conversion program for the 42s.


Edited to correct typo.


Edited: 7 Jan 2010, 1:56 p.m. after one or more responses were posted


#34

Quote:
...
Also s good conversion program for the 42s.

???

#35

Reth, I was referring to a program Thomas Okken has published on his website. It is available here, and the documentation, if you want to get an idea what it's like, is here.

I confess I have used it on Free42, but have not yet gotten it onto my physical 42s. The files he offers are RAW files, and he has a conversion program to turn text files into RAW, but I need the opposite, to enter his programs into my 42s.

Anyone know how to do this?


#36

Never mind, I figured it out. Just load the program into Free42, go to "Preferences" on the top menu, and select to write the printer output to a text file, then on the Free42 keyboard, PRINT PRP, and Voila!

Edited to correct typo.

Edited: 8 Jan 2010, 8:51 a.m.

#37

Thanks, Martin, now I know what you meant. BTW I'd modify that program for use in 42S iPhone app by adding functionality similar to the HP48's and using the 2 display lines.

Cheers


#38

I'm using the Windows version of Fee42, and have yet to get my feet wet programming the 42. That will come.

#39

Quote:
I miss a dedicated store key instead of a roll key. Is there anyone that can't convert inches to cms or F to C degrees? I think that is trivial. Sam

I like the dedicated STO key too. It doesn't make sense to make STO a shifted function.

#40

Quote:
(Personally, I think the "f" & "g" would invoke extraneous and misleading -- albeit historical -- UI elements, just as do the left & right arrows. I'd like to see simply a yellow patch on the keyboard face immediately above the upper shift key, and a blue patch on the front face of the lower shift key.)

I thought the same thing but then something occurred to me - how would you represent the shift keys in a black&white printed manual? I suspect this problem is the reason that the shift keys are labeled.

I agree with the poster who said they'd like to see a dedicated STO key. I think that "more complicated" calculators should add to, but not remove from, "less complicated" ones. Of course this isn't always possible, but to me, STO/RCL are such basic features that they should have top priority for key space.


#41

Quote:
how would you represent the shift keys in a black&white printed manual?

Perhaps

<blu>
<yel>
or something like it

#42

I'm sure you're correct.

But how 'bout graphics: line drawings of the outline of a key -- one with a white (or colored) patch above it, the other with the patch on the front of the key.

(We're all frustrated, would-be design geniuses!)


#43

Hey, I *am* a design genius--frustrated or not ;-D

Edited: 7 Jan 2010, 8:39 p.m.

#44

Reminds me of some old work of mine, one going back to 2007:

The last one is of summer 08 and was presented at HHC 2008. It's not a lack of proposals preventing better calculators d:(


#45

Just curious--

how do you go about making these amazing "pictures" of non-existent calculators? It looks like you somehow modify a bitmap photo--and yet it all looks so clean and natural.


#46

Thanks, Bill, for your kind words. But the base is as usual: 5% inspiration plus 95% transpiration d:-)

@Paul: You're right, it all comes down to the "real estate challenge". Recent designs have Rv unshifted, but had to drop other goodies. Even by repeated counting you won't get more keys than there are on a given calculator d;-)

#47

Quote:
(Personally, I think the "f" & "g" would invoke extraneous and misleading -- albeit historical -- UI elements, just as do the left & right arrows. I'd like to see simply a yellow patch on the keyboard face immediately above the upper shift key, and a blue patch on the front face of the lower shift key.)

I'm missing something here. What would the extraneous and misleading UI elements be?

David wondered how to represent the shift keys in a black&white printed manual - it seems to me that if the L/R shift labels are replaced with f/g on the keys, the LCD display indicators, and in the manuals; that would solve all the problems. How would it be misleading? Did 'f' and 'g' used to have some other meaning than just to differentiate the shift keys? That's all they seem to do on the 16C that I have.

#48

I assume you just bought your 35s. Are you aware of the bugs mentioned here? Could you please check if anything from that list has been corrected in your 35s and if so post your s/n?

#49

Quote:
The +/- key has been replaced with CHS which I prefer for aesthetic, logic, and consistency reasons. I consider it more correct.

For international users, I'd prefer +/- over CHS because it's far more intuitive.


#50

Hmm, the more I stare at my HP-35s the more changes I'd like! I like all the suggestions above.

One area that annoys me is not having all the "stack manip" keys close together - for example Rv and X<>Y so far away from ENTER..

And STO should definitely be unshifted!!


#51

I agree re: stack manipulation keys. Re: Walter's 2nd design (Thanks, Walter!), Roll Down shouldn't be shifted any more than STO.

What it comes down to is: Most of us will agree on the large Enter key. Beyond that, we'll all have our favorites which will, one way or another, clash with someone else's ideas re: highest priorities for limited keytop real estate.

(I think I'm beginning to see why H-P doesn't ask us! ;-) Keep the passion, folks!

Edited: 7 Jan 2010, 7:41 p.m.


#52

Quote:

(I think I'm beginning to see why H-P doesn't ask us! ;-) Keep the passion, folks!


It was a frustrated hp that produced a 41C blacknut :)


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