How do you sell your HP calculators?



#84

This question is mainly geared towards self-proclaimed collectors of these wonderful machines. I am faced with the prospect of having to sell a NIB Singapore 48GX, and the prospect of using eBay seems a little scary. I would rather this calculator ends up in the hands of a serious collector which will treasure it and take care of it, and I'm afraid it might end up in the hands of a college kid that doesn't know what he has.


One of the simple examples of why I cringe thinking about eBay is the fact that 48GX units with black LCD are promoted in auctions always as superior, without regards for other factors.

Besides the Classified Ads section in this very website, is there anywhere else that you guys use for this?


#85

Hi R. J.

For such a prized machine as yours, the bidding on Ebay would quickly escalate beyond what a college kid would would want to pay, and into the realm of collectible value. I would think anyone who was willing to pay what I know it would go for would treat it with kid gloves.

As for myself, I have an "as new" 48GX black LCD that is the centerpiece of my collection. Nobody touches it but me, and then only after I've washed my hands and cleaned the entire surface where it will be used. So you see, I would give your 48GX the home it deserves :)
Best regards, Hal


#86

Hi Hal,

Thanks for your answer. I suppose you are correct about the bidding process taking care of unqualified buyers by virtue of the price itself.

I completely understand your feelings about your 48GX, I treat mine with the same care, which sadly reaches the level of unabashed OCD ritual. :)

I really hate to part with it, but it must go. I'm still holding on to my NIB 42S and NIB 48SX. I know the 48SX is less valuable than the 48GX regarding market price, but it holds more personal value to me.

Regards,

Ruben


#87

Why would an SX hold more personal value for you than a GX if they're both NIB? Cause you used an SX a couple times on your exams? ... only to switch to TI?

You just finished your exams 3 years ago but you have all these classic HPs NIB? Start school late?

In later threads, you are found whimsically adding and removing folks from your list of potential buyers.... I smell a troll. There, I said it.

PS - I am pleased to report I just bought a 48G (not + or X) for $34, incl. shipping, to replace my busted 49g+, that I actually used every day. People are paying way too much for 48GXs to put in glass boxes under warm lights and alarm systems.


#88

You smell a troll? Listen, Pal. Get your nose checked. And while you are at it, take care of your mouth too, because you have a big one. Public forums can afford a sort of anonimity that tends to infuse courage in people that in real life would be quite meeker. I believe I have kept my discussion here so far civil, and I intend to continue doing that.

Why do you have to question why a 48SX holds more value to me personally than a 48GX? It is none of your business, but for the benefit of the other well intentioned folks in this forum, here are some of the reasons:
- Manufactured in the U.S.A. If you think it is irrelevant, don't tell me about it, because I'm not interested.
- When I was studying engineering 18 years ago, it was the calculator to have, and I used to covet one.
- It is the original 48 design, and it looks better than the later models.

I started "collecting" HP calculators about 7 years ago. Why does this matter to you, anyway? And I don't consider myself a collector, because I have too few of them due to several reasons.

Edited: 13 Oct 2009, 11:02 p.m.

#89

The auction site which shall remain nameless seems to have the highest prices. Of course presentation is everything, as a search through "completed listings" will demonstrate. We "collectors" tend to be a bit more savvy about this which is good for us. Of course as collectors, we all hope for a badly presented listing--tends to reduce the price :-)

So list it as an HP47 GX Claculator please ;-)


#90

HA, good one Bill. I'll list my Helewt Parckard 47GT Carculator soon, and I'll send you a PM so that you can be the only bidder.

Seriously though, I understand about the presentation. I have taken quite a few pictures of the machine and its accompanying items, which I have already uploaded to a PhotoBucket album (if you are interested, the URL is listed in the Classified Ads secction.) I'm going to take a video of me running the tests also.

Another thing I hate about EvilBay is that you pay through the nose not just for the eBay fees, but for the PayPal fees (since eBay owns PayPal and PayPal has pretty much become a monopoly, you end up paying eBay twice.) I sometimes wonder with such a brilliant business model, how come their stock is not soaring.

Regards,

Ruben


#91

Quote:
...how come their stock is not soaring.

They have to pay high-priced consultants to evaluate and change their screwed up feedback system every few quarters.

#92

HEHEHE. Ain't that the truth. Another thing that really irked me (this time about PayPal) is that they used to, up until a few weeks ago, discourage buyers from paying with a credit card, and instead favoured using direct bank transfers. Obviously, if you make a payment with your credit card and the transaction goes sour, you can issue a chargeback against PayPal, which then has to deal with the seller/provider. But if you make a payment via a direct transfer and the deal goes south, you are pretty much out of luck (despite what PayPal may tell you about buyer protection.) I was very surprised that they changed this practice of discouraging buyers to use credit cards, because it had been in place for as long as I can remember. Someone must have threatened a class order lawsuit or something, because otherwise it does not compute.

#93

Good morning!

Quote:
... towards self-proclaimed collectors ...

... I would rather this calculator ends up in the hands of a serious collector ...


If you consider this forum here to be a playing ground for "self-proclaimed" collectors, and on the other hand you want to make sure your calculator finds it's way to a "serious collector", this is hardly the place to ask your question, isn't it?

If it was my calculator, I would sell it locally to some college kid, because then it will get a chance to be used as a tool for education and science. And this is what it was designed and built for.

Greetings, Max


#94

Quote:
If it was my calculator, I would sell it locally to some college kid, because then it will get a chance to be used as a tool for education and science. And this is what it was designed and built for.

That is an excellent point. What better tribute to our favorite calculators than to have them continue to be used for the purpose of making the world a better place, rather than sitting on a shelf in a personal shrine.


#95

I'm sorry, but that is not an excellent point. It is a horrible point. At least in my opinion, for the reasons which I have already explained. These machines are more than tools, more than the sum of their parts and the technological abilities which they implement. So yes, they deserve to be kept in a shrine. Collecting is a free endeavour, and I reserve the right to sell my calculator to whomever I please (and as of now, you two have ceased to form a part of that select group of potential buyers.) No offense whatsoever, I just really like my calculator, and would like it to be kept in good shape for as long as possible.

Edited: 13 Oct 2009, 6:02 a.m.


#96

Quote:
and as of now, you two have ceased to form a part of that select group of potential buyers

Well, you've certainly ruined my day! : )

Hey Max and DaveJ, let's go have a beer and not worry if some of it spills on our calculator!


#97

Quote:
Hey Max and DaveJ, let's go have a beer and not worry if some of it spills on our calculator!

May I join you? I'll bring my 35s. ;^)

#98

Hello!

Quote:
May I join you? I'll bring my 35s. ;^)

Sure! And I will bring the HP22 that I got in the mail today :-) With charged batteries! Another gap closed. And at a reasonable price too (less than 100 Euros). I think I'll have a beer to celebrate right now...

Greetings, Max


#99

Congrats, enjoy!

This makes me believe you're just using these forums to find a potential buyer, knowing that the true collectors here will pay a premium for an excellent-condition machine.

If so, just be up front and say you want as much money for it as you can get. There's no reason to use the "high and mighty" road here because you're preaching to the choir. We all appreciate HP calculators, including those that are rare and in great condition. But you're either missing the point, or you're purposefully avoiding it. The guys above made an EXCELLENT suggestion -- find someone who will use it and let them have it at a discount. There's no reason to put these calculators on a shrine (at least, not until there's only one left in the world).

Don't use the forums to sell your product. Either use an auction site or the classifieds here. Be up front about what you want.

I suspect this will remove me from the pool of potential buyers too, and if so, then you've just proven my point.

Thanks,
Bruce

Edited: 13 Oct 2009, 11:13 a.m.


Hi Bruce,

You are partially right. I am of course interested in getting as much money for my calculator as possible. I even put an add in the Classified Ads section asking for offers, because I'm trying to determine how viable it would be to sell it directly through these forums. However, that is not the whole story. I truly wish to find a buyer for it that will take care of it. Call me crazy, but if someone with a sledgehammer offered me $1000 for the calculator with the purpose of smashing it in a commercial for Texas Instruments, I would not sell it. Life is not black and white. Most all human intentions are fraught with conflict and compromise. Yes, I want to get a good price for my calculator (who wouldn't?) But I also want to find a good home for it, and I'm horrified by the herd of beer-spilling ghouls that call themselves collectors which inhabit these forums (Don't be outraged, I'm just being humorous.)

You are still part of the select group of buyers, but you are pushing it...


Quote:
...I'm horrified by the herd of beer-spilling ghouls that call themselves collectors which inhabit these forums (Don't be outraged, I'm just being humorous.)

This is your fundamental mistake: not everyone here is a collector.

- Pauli


I understand that now. I also have come to realize that collectors follow different patterns. I have a very limited amount of calculators that I seldom use (unless you want to consider running the self test sequence using it.) Whereas some people have 700+ calculators that they use often ;)

Add my vote for that.

Those who keep such things in original shrink wrap etc lest they let the new product smell out, don't deserve'em I say!

Flames invited :-P

Dave.


Quote:
Those who keep such things in original shrink wrap etc lest they let the new product smell out, don't deserve'em I say!

IMHO, things that were designed to be used should be used. You'll extract more joy out of your collection by using it, than by knowing its just there.

How people choose to collect and what they do with that collection is their own business. Personally my stuff is all over the place (on desk, on shelves, on the floor). I try to take care of them, but I also use them frequently, so I never remove the batteries.

Stuff that I have no use for (e.g. LED calculators) I give away or put back in the community so that another can exact some joy from using it.

I have to agree with the OP that a modern university student would have little use for a 48GX. It'd be a frustrating experience (RPN only, hard to read display, slow). Most university students in the US today were raised on TI. My own kid (NYU freshmen) took her TI to school with her. She really likes her TI because she knows how to use it and it makes her successful. That said there will always be exceptions (I can think of one, a Theoretical Physics Ph.D student) that would truly appreciate and use legacy HP calculators in new and interesting ways.

My advice for the OP, if you are going to sell it, then sell it, why do you care what the buyer does with it? If you do care, then don't sell it.

I think I'll go visit Dave's "Museum of Amazing Used and Mostly Functioning Things".

Edited: 13 Oct 2009, 11:16 a.m.


Quote:
IMHO, things that were designed to be used should be used. You'll extract more joy out of your collection by using it, than by knowing its just there.

My advice for the OP, if you are going to sell it, then sell it, why do you care what the buyer does with it? If you do care, then don't sell it.


Amen.


You guys are missing the point. Let me just throw a couple of semi-random thoughts that might shed some light into my philosophy:

1: HP 48GX emulation has been perfected. Therefore, nothing would be lost if all HP 48GX calculators ceased to exist, given that their functionality can be preserved.

2: Since calculators like the HP 48GX were made to be used, aren't collectors that hoard a large number of such calculators doing a disservice to the human race? Wouldn't it be more in the spirit of the intent of such calculators to give them away to people that can use them? How many calculators can you use simultaneously, anyway? And, is there anything every single one of those calculators can do that no other calculator in the collection can do?

I'm just trying to be the devil's advocate and go against the prevailing tree-hugging mentality here.

Edited: 13 Oct 2009, 4:04 p.m.


Okay, not that I want to give Ms. Soto any credibility here whatsoever, I think I have to give her credit -- just a little -- for this last post. It got me thinking. Maybe the issue here for me is that this is a 48 we're talking about.

I went back to some of the posts and inserted "HP-01" or "HP-10" or "HP-19c" in there, in place of "48" and found that when I did that, I had a bit of agreement with Ms. Soto. There is something to be said for those devices that are truly unique and more museum quality than day-to-day. For example, I could not fathom buying an HP-01 and then actually wearing it on a daily basis. One small mistake and the thing could be history. A scratch across the glass, or a button jammed in and it would detract from the whole thing. Same for my prized possession, my HP-19c (original owner) -- it's probably my most prized calc, and even though I do use it occasionally, it's not one I would want to give to a high-schooler.

In a like vein, I would have no problem giving a 32sii to a high schooler to use because -- although it is relatively valuable -- it is a powerhouse calc, and it would be used.

So, is this whole argument centered around the relative worth/value of the calculator? If so, where do we draw the line? I personally don't think a 48GX, even one with immaculate black text, is worth the hubbub that this is all about. To me it's in the same class as a 32sii or a 16c -- it's a great calc, and I'd have no problem seeing it used on a daily basis.

I still think I'd rather see it used.

thanks,
bruce


Maybe my perspective as to the actual value of the 48GX is skewed. Will it be more valuable in 50 years?

What I really don't get is who Ms. Soto is. :)

Regarding "buying an HP-01 and wearing it on a daily basis" - I did for quite a while. But the $30 per year for the batteries back then ($100 / year now after inflation) to wear a 1/4 pound (115 gram?) watch which required you to press a button just to know the time got pretty old. Casio "Data Bank" calculator watches replaced it (the first was the oh-so-missed scientific model). With an LCD and 75% less weight and thinner, they are vastly more practical.

Still have my '01 though - if only to wear to HHCs when I can get to 'em. Still works fine, too. Not bad after having it for 30 years now...

Jim (still have the buckle button pusher - and a spare!) Horn

Quote:
2: Since calculators like the HP 48GX were made to be used, aren't collectors that hoard a large number of such calculators doing a disservice to the human race?


I have a number. That will be diminishing soon, as I lost my job, and at some point, extras will have to go. I will always keep a beater HP-15C around. Not worried about it dying. By the time that thing goes, we'll be able to get them implanted in our heads.

Still, except for a mint HP-16C, that I've kept tucked away, mostly because I have a pair of well used 16s in use, I use most all mine. To me, they only really hold value when I'm using them. I could often get by with software cals, and all too often end up just pulling up one for a quick calc, but I like using them too much to lock them away. I guess I'm not a very good collector. Just like them a lot.


You actually make a good point. Maybe collectors who rarely turn on their machines don't really like the machines, but the idea of having them. What I really don't understand very well is how someone with a large number of different models can use all of them. It takes some time to know the intricacies of each model and to become proficient with it. Unless you are going to use core functionality, but then what's the point of having so many different ones, if most of what you do with each one of them could be done with a single one? In other words, you might be using all of them, but you are not using them to their full potential. And isn't that what they were designed to do?

Quote:
IMHO, things that were designed to be used should be used. You'll extract more joy out of your collection by using it, than by knowing its just there.

Amen to that, Egan. Perhaps the late Grace Hopper (computer pioneer, Navy Admiral, and co-inventor of COBOL) said it best: a ship in port is safe, but that's not what ships are for."

May she RIP.


But the problem is that a calculator like the HP 48GX is used regularly, it will eventually fail just due to simple mechanical wear and tear. I'm just trying to postpone that fate by using it in a controlled environment and in a limited fashion, because to me it is more than a calculator.

Hey, I got the same message in my fortune cookie last week. I have it right here. It says:

"A ship in harbor is safe, but that's not why ships are built."

Cool! :-)

Thanks,
Bruce

Yours is a very reasonable post, Egan. I can find no fault with it, yet at the same time I can't agree with it, because I'm a very unreasonable man. I do extract a lot of joy from simply looking at my calculator, holding it, and occasionally turning it on (just to reciprocate, and if you get this last joke you are as sick as I am.)

Unfortunately you are right about TI. I graduated in Mathematics 3 years ago, and my TI-89 served me well. Yet, I find it hard to feel sentimental about that machine. I even tried to take a 48SX to a couple of exams, but I wasn't able to use it as efficiently as the TI-89 for that purpose, so I ceased the experiment (my GPA was at stake.)

I don't claim to be reasonable or even rational. I'm not a hypocrite either, although perhaps I should have been more forward in my original post by saying I'm also interested in getting a good price for it (although I think that was implied.)

As much as I find reason and logic in your post, unfortunately I must cross you out of my pool of potential buyers. The idea of my 48GX laying on the floor gives me squalors.

Regards,

Ruben


Quote:
As much as I find reason and logic in your post, unfortunately I must cross you out of my pool of potential buyers. The idea of my 48GX laying on the floor gives me squalors.

I already have a 48GX, I do not need another. However if you gave it to me, then I assure you that it would not sit on my floor. Instead it'd sit in a padded box on its way to a student that I know would use it.

I actually agree with you. I take my calculator out to admire it every few months actually. Once I even used it to calculate the square root of 9. It was an exhilarating experience...

Quote:
Quote:
If it was my calculator, I would sell it locally to some college kid, because then it will get a chance to be used as a tool for education and science. And this is what it was designed and built for.
That is an excellent point. What better tribute to our favorite calculators than to have them continue to be used for the purpose of making the world a better place, rather than sitting on a shelf in a personal shrine.

I've been taking a similar approach by foisting HP calculators on my kids. (How many 7th graders do you know swinging an HP-33s in class?) Of course, that regularly forces me back to the auction site that shall not be named when a kid succeeds in breaking or losing a calculator. ('My calculator won't turn on.' ... 'What did you do to it?' ... 'Nothing.' - another HP48G bites the dust :< )

Fortunately my wife is an engineer with a HP-11C in her purse, so I can get away with such behavior.


Hi, all;

Quote:
(...) to be used as a tool for education and science. And this is what it was designed and built for.
Could not agree more. In fact, I agree with all in this 'subthread', or "My name in the list, please!"

Luiz (Brazil)


Edited: 14 Oct 2009, 11:24 a.m.

As a teacher and math tutor, I have given several calculators to my students over the years, if I thought they could benefit from them. I gave a 12c platinum to a seventh-grader who expressed interest in how programming on a calculator worked. I gave a TI-34 Multiview (excellent calculator for middle-school kids) to my entire 8th grade class last year as a graduation present (it was a very small school and the 8th grade consisted of only three girls).

And each year I take my HP-65 with its flashing LEDs to school, and the kids are always intrigued by that. Face it, kids are into electronics these days, and anything that gets them interested in math and its operations is a good thing.


This is my experience as well. In the sea of iPod Touches and iPhones, a calculator still resonates with teens, which actually runs contrary to my expectations. My HP-41CV and TI-59 are the biggest hits. The HP-42s is so discrete that it fails to impress. The 48GX doesn't excite as much interest as the 50g, presumably because mine is a well used example and the 50g looks "new".

Quote:
How many 7th graders do you know swinging an HP-33s in class?

My daughters both have HP-35s :-)
They were in grades 6 & 7 when they got them but are now in 7 & 8.


- Pauli

Hi there,

I do not find any contradiction in my statement. Collecting is a voluntary activity which doesn't depend on talent or ability, but rather in the will and passion to collect something which is the object of your devotion. Therefore, a self-proclaimed collector is for all intents and purposes, a collector. In contrast, a self-proclaimed rocket scientist might be nothing more than a hack, due to lack of talent, knowledge, or ability. Basically, what I'm trying to tell you, is that I didn't mean "self-proclaimed collector" in any pejorative sense, but rather as a way to denote the self-conscious nature of a given activity (collecting HP calculators in this case.)

I also disagree with your second point. These calculators are a species near extinction, and a specimen of the kind I have stands a better chance of being preserved and admired by a collector. What you are saying is that I should sell this to a college kid so that the calculator can be used as a tool. I have to disagree with this for a couple of reasons:
1) At this point in time, there are machines which are far more capable tools, from the purely technological point of view, than a HP 48GX. As a matter of fact, you can probably run a perfect 48GX emulation using PDA hardware.
2) Most importantly, you are forgetting that a machine like the HP 48GX is much more than a simple tool. Some snobs (I'm saying this with tongue in cheek by the way) might even consider it a piece of artistic industrial design due to some of its qualities: Solid construction, materials, layout, etc. After all, we are in a museum, aren't we?

To make a crude analogy, what you are saying is that someone willing to part with a Hispano-Suiza with all original parts should sell it to someone who will drive it to the store and back just because that's what all cars were created for.

Edited: 13 Oct 2009, 5:58 a.m.


Quote:
These calculators are a species near extinction

This is not nearly as true of 48GX as it is of 41C(V,X), and people have used those older models to death and then restored them for more _use_. PDA's don't quite fill the bill, as there is a constant battle for appearance rather than ergonomics. A touch screen is quite difficult to one-hand. 48GX isn't great for one hand, so maybe, when surveyors (TDS is doomed ;-) ) lecturers and students have all got 50g's...


I sort of understand collecting, but for me there is much more satisfaction using something I don't have to sling over my shoulder that was very carefully designed for my hand and brain.

Richard


Very reasonable post. Again, I can not agree though, because I'm not reasonable. I can envision a future, 200 years ago, when children won't be able to lay their eyes (multiple eyes, due to mutations caused by the great war of 2012) onto a mint 48GX. If this is not enough to give you nightmares, what is? OK, perhaps the idea of a braless Woopi Goldberg jumping rope with Rosie O'Donnell. But besides that, what is?

Quote:
2) Most importantly, you are forgetting that a machine like the HP 48GX is much more than a simple tool. Some snobs (I'm saying this with tongue in cheek by the way) might even consider it a piece of artistic industrial design due to some of its qualities: Solid construction, materials, layout, etc. After all, we are in a museum, aren't we?

If I was in a real museum, I'd actually want to see a beat-up used HP48GX in the glass cabinet running a program. Rather than a shiny virginal one through its original bubble packaging without the batteries in lest they leak.

It gives it some character, history, and a sense of worth.

But that's just me...

Quote:
To make a crude analogy, what you are saying is that someone willing to part with a Hispano-Suiza with all original parts should sell it to someone who will drive it to the store and back just because that's what all cars were created for.

Hey, why not?

I'm in a Youtube kinda mood today, so here is another one that is just so apt, err, I mean so choice, for you collectors...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MxPoxxt7n0

Dave.


100% agree!!!

That's what makes me think if I'm a collector or simply a user that likes to use great calcs instead of seeing them in a drawer.

Regards

DaveJ,

But you are missing the point of a museum. There is no shortage of beat up, dirty 48GX calculators full of character. Museums are for the excellent pieces.

That video brought a smile to my weathered convict-like mug. :)


Quote:
But you are missing the point of a museum. There is no shortage of beat up, dirty 48GX calculators full of character. Museums are for the excellent pieces.

No I'm not missing the point, because my viewpoint is different. That's what I'd prefer to see in a museum when it comes to technology like this.

Try going to the Computer History Museum some time. I don't believe there is a single item in the collection that hasn't been used and is beat-up in some way. You won't find any original boxes on display, that's for sure. I liked it.

Here is the calc section PHOTO 1 PHOTO 2

The only exception is the HP01, and that kinda makes sense because the box is designed for display. The other cals are in reasonable condition, but I like that they looked used, that's what I expected to see.

If pristine units in their original bubble packaging floats your boat, then that's fine too, just don't be surprised when others don't get so excited!

Dave.


Edited: 13 Oct 2009, 5:32 p.m.


I'm not surprised actually. I thought the feeling would be more prevalent, specially here. Maybe the term "Museum" should be changed to "Repository". I'm not arguing that my 48GX should be considered art, by the way. Even I can see the difference between a Picasso and a chunk of plastic with buttons on it.

Hello!

Quote:
To make a crude analogy, what you are saying is that someone willing to part with a Hispano-Suiza with all original parts should sell it to someone who will drive it to the store and back just because that's what all cars were created for.

Yes :-) This summer, I had the chance to go to the Duxford Flying Legends weekend ( http://duxford.iwm.org.uk/ ) with a couple of colleagues. For two days in a row, we saw a stunning performance by dozens of aeroplanes, some of which were nearly 100 years old. Some of them one-of-a-kind specimens. Worth millions (of dollars/pounds/euros/whatever). But far too rare and precious to be left gathering dust in a museum. These things were built for flying, and the air is the place where they belong. If one of them gets damaged or destroyed in the process, then at least it has not "died" for nothing.

Today I had a day off and went flying with two students (I consider instructing as recreation, not work). We had the rare luck, to encounter the "Breitling Super Constellation" ( http://www.superconstellation.org/ ) at the airfield where we practised instrument approaches. What a joy! What a pity and loss it would be to let this beauty rust away in some museum.

So when I say, that calculators should be used for calculating, I really mean it. Sometimes I feel guilty for not letting (most of) my 700+ calculators do what they are best at...

Greetings, Max


Hello Maximilian,

I understand your point of view. But I think there is a limit to everything. You must be very conflicted about your 700+ calculator collection, because it radically goes against that theory. This leads me to believe that you at least partially understand some of my feelings.

How often do you use each one of your calculators? Wouldn't it be more in tune with your philosophy to donate all but 10 or 20 of them to people which would use them everyday in a practical context?

Do you have any duplicates? (I think this question answers itself.) If so, how can you justify that fact? Having more than one item which can exactly perform the same function does not make any sense, at least according to your feelings that things should be used for that which they were intended. How does the superfluousness and waste inherent in owning two items of one kind fit with your theory, when you can only use one of them at a time?

The main thing that I disagree with is your attitude that you should use things "because that's what they were created for." Things are nothing but inanimate objects, and I think they should be used for that which their owner can derive the most pleasure from. If that is gazing at them, holding them, and occasionally using them, so be it. If that is using them without constraints or care, that's fine too. But there is no greater purpose to be fulfilled, no promise to be satisfied, in using a calculator for that which it was designed for. At least, not when it transcends the realm of utilitarian tools, and reaches the domain of industrial art. And perhaps the 48GX doesn't reach that level, but it is mightlily close.


Hi R.J.,

You are a person of contradiction yourself. You say:

Quote:
Things are nothing but inanimate objects,...

Yet you attach emotion to these things as if they were your child.

also
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... and I think they should be used for that which their owner can derive the most pleasure from.

so why care if the next owner gets the most pleasure out of it by smashing it for a TI ad?

Bart

Edited: 13 Oct 2009, 7:24 p.m.


How's it going, Bart.

I don't claim to be fully rational (and whoever does is a fool.) And yes, I see the contradiction in what I say. Let me see if I can rationalize some of it...

People get attached to things regardless of things themselves being inanimate objects. It happens all the time. Why is that? My guess is that things can sometimes be vehicles to spark remembrances of places in time, to evoke memories of times past. I'm not defending this as rational behavior, but emotion in itself is the antithesis of reason (and I hope it stays that way, because otherwise we would all be a bunch of robots.)

Why would I care someone smashing my calculator? Because I like my calculator, it's as simple as that.

Cheers,

Ruben

Edited: 13 Oct 2009, 11:16 p.m.


Quote:
Why would I care someone smashing my calculator? Because I like my calculator, it's as simple as that.

Then why don't you keep it? Are you really *that* desperate for the cash?

With your sort of attachment it might be perhaps something you'll come to regret one day if you do sell it?

Dave.


It it were only that simple...

It's not as much about the cash as it is about my life in general. I have too much stuff and I need to get rid of some of it, because it has gotten to a point that it is ruling my life. I do tend to get obsessed as a matter of fact, and I have realized that I need to simplify. I am going to end up selling a bunch of stuff in eBay in the short run, and for the 48GX I wanted to figure out if there existed a different channel for collectors only that I may try. The first couple of very helpful responses I got made the point that I should just put it on eBay and let things sort themselves out. So that's what I'm going to do. I apologize if I created a stir with my views about how to deal with these calculators. It wasn't my intention to do that, it just happens to be the way I feel about it.

Cheers,

Ruben

Hello!

Quote:
How often do you use each one of your calculators?

Not as often as I would like to!

Quote:
Wouldn't it be more in tune with your philosophy to donate all but 10 or 20 of them to people which would use them everyday in a practical context?

I have never suggested that you donate your calculator to anybody! But if you sell it, then (as others have pointed out already) I think it is the buyer alone who has to decide what's best for his newly acquired calculator.

And yes: It would be good if I could give away/sell most my calculators and keep only 20. My wife would love the idea! But as of now, I simply can't decide which ones to keep...

Quote:
Do you have any duplicates? (I think this question answers itself.)

Not so many, actually. Because I don't collect HP exclusively, but (in order of importance to me): Navigation calculators, exotic calculators of all sorts, programmable scientific with luminous display, scientific with luminous display, all others with luminous display, very smart calculators with LC display. As a matter of fact, I do not own a working HP-48GX, because it does not fit any of these categories...

Quote:
If so, how can you justify that fact? Having more than one item which can exactly perform the same function does not make any sense, at least according to your feelings that things should be used for that which they were intended. How does the superfluousness and waste inherent in owning two items of one kind fit with your theory, when you can only use one of them at a time?

I keep some duplicates for the purpose of trading or as spares for calculators that I actually use regularly. And especially the old ones really break if you continue using them.

Quote:
The main thing that I disagree with is your attitude that you should use things "because that's what they were created for."

I'm not all that strict about this point. But, as said before, if I had the choice to sell a calculator to either a collector or a user, than I would choose the latter. And be happy for "my" calculator!

Greetings, Max


Hello Max,

I think you have explained your feelings well enough. I hope my previous post didn't sound too hostile. Your collection sounds quite amazing. I used to have a Russian calculator with light tubes (I forget the name of the company, but it might have been Elektronika or something similar,) but I gave it away to a college friend from Russia whose father worked for Sun Microsystems.

How do you manage the storage and organization of your collection? That sounds like a great task in itself.

Edited: 14 Oct 2009, 3:41 a.m.


Hello!

Quote:
How do you manage the storage and organization of your collection? That sounds like a great task in itself.

First: My collection is a very small and humble one. Some people who post on this forum (and some who don't) have 3000 or more...

As for the organisation, I have a little database with a short description and a photo of each calculator. And with storage, I must confess, I have a litte (or big, according to my wife) problem... I'm afraid, the day is coming close when I will have to focus on two or three specific classes of calculators and part with all the rest.

Greetings, Max


Fair enough.

I suggest that if you enjoy your calculator collection and wish to maintain it complete, you bring your wife flowers from time to time. Lobying of (and preemptive apologizing to) wives accounts for 79% of the fresh flower sales in the U.S. according to recent statistics. :)

Cheers!

Yes but even Valentin (who takes impeccable care of his collection) made a very good point one day some years back when he asserted that all of these glorious HPs will one day stop working--even if you never touch them--as certain critical key components will decay and unlike an old National or Hallicrafters with dead-bug construction, you cannot bring one back phoenix-like.

So live a little--and use them claculaters! :-)


I understand what you say. Nothing lasts forever. Even the Universe is in a process of constant death. I just want to preserve some things for as long as possible.

Slightly out of topic, I hope you guys have looked into Faraday cages, because there is a world wide EM pulse attack at hand. It's just a question of time. And when that happens, bye bye calculator collection!

Also, I happen to admire my calculators when they are off as well (which happens to be most of the time.) Even without its innards a 48GX is a thing of beauty.


My faraday cage is a 1949 Porsche 356 with an aluminium body.

Edited: 13 Oct 2009, 9:28 p.m.


Obviously it must not be a convertible model. Keep your windows rolled up and you will be fine.


Quote:
Keep your windows rolled up and you will be fine.

Oh, I didn't know Porsche sports conductive windows :))

That's what I was told as a kid, to always keep the windows rolled up during a thunderstorm. As a matter of fact, I vividly remember seeing a demonstration of TV with a rat inside a model car submitted to some electrical discharge, which seemed to confirm that theory. So what you are saying is that the foundation on which I have based all my life is nothing but a lie?

Quote:
If it was my calculator, I would sell it locally to some college kid, because then it will get a chance to be used as a tool for education and science. And this is what it was designed and built for.

That so reminded me of this James May's Top Toys segment about collecting model trains, and all the kill-joys who won't take them out of the box to play with them:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZ8IjZ3tUas

James has a great solution to that!

Dave.


:-)

I like.

- Pauli

I love it!

Very nice! Thanks. My favorite part was the glee expressed with the possible one hour task to connect two trains.

Sadly, I gave away my HO gauge set when I moved away from home. If I had it now I'd find a way to control it with HP-IL.

Thanks again.

I don't understand? This question is foreign to me. Sell.. my.. HP calculators???? Not gonna happen ;-)

I use a variety, about 8-10 different ones, here at work, and have a few more at home that the family uses for homework and account balancing.

But sell them? That's kind of funny!! (Half joking, half serious :-)

Matt

p.s. Call me old fashioned, but I recently bought an old Swingline stapler, just for the quality of it. Same thing about an old metronome. I just hate to see the race-to-bottom.. all the throw away stuff that isn't worth keeping. But that's just me.

p.p.s. I would however, easily consider selling some old TI's.


Quote:
... I recently bought an old Swingline stapler ...

LOL, I have one sitting right next to me. It has got to be one of the oldest things I own. Still works.

Staplers, huh? One of my most precious momentos is an Ace Scout Model 202 stapler given to me for my fifth birthday by my father 58 years ago. It was made in Chicago, Il by the Ace Fastener Co., and is built entirely of steel, except for the rubber feet. It uses these heavy duty buckle-proof undulated staples. Inside the box of staples is a small inspection card that states in part "If your Clipper or Scout does not function perfectly with these staples, send it to us with this card. This will assure only a minimum charge for putting the machine in working order."

And, yes, it still works perfectly.

Edited: 15 Oct 2009, 5:52 p.m. after one or more responses were posted


Tops me. Bostich B8, 1968. Someday I might run out of the large box of staples from the U-Store.

Richard

Hi, Matt! --

Quote:
I recently bought an old Swingline stapler, just for the quality of it.

I bought one when starting college in 1981, paying around $20 for an all-metal, made in USA, Swingline Model 747. Pea-soup green, like the earth tones so in vogue back then. It's never given me a bit of trouble, and I still use it.

Just a few years ago, I bought a made-in-China Swingline 747 for about $11. It looked the same, but was not as solid, and some imprecise manufacturing made it jam frequently. I sent it to the metals-recycling bin.

Recently, I bought for about $20(?) a Swingline spring-loaded model (also made in China) that uses the same kind of staples, and is better-built than others of this type. So far, so good. The spring-loading is a clever innovation that gives more stapling power. The innards aren't accessible for safety reasons.


This is all very mundane, but what is significant are the familiar themes:

  • How expensive, but durable, the original product was.
  • The original, mass-produced low-tech product utilized domestic labor.
  • Today's more-sophisticated product might still be lower-priced in inflation-adjusted dollars if it were domestically made, but is not -- with the US public generally unwilling to pay for high quality or for labor wages commensurate with their own.

-- KS


Edited: 15 Oct 2009, 4:03 a.m.


Quote:
Today's more-sophisticated product might still be lower-priced in inflation-adjusted dollars if it were domestically made, but is not -- with the US public generally unwilling to pay for high quality or for labor wages commensurate with their own.

I think it's important to differentiate between individual consumer products and business use products. Staplers are mostly used by businesses and considered office supplies, whereas small calculators are generally purchased by private individuals. I think that businesses place more importance on durability and reliability, and are often willing to pay more for this. Individuals look more at cost and value, and are not so concerned with longevity, especially with rapidly evolving technological products. I personally get a kick out of playing with my ancient calculators and computers, but when it comes down to doing some serious work, I still use the newest ones.

Edited: 15 Oct 2009, 5:50 p.m.


Quote:
I think it's important to differentiate between individual consumer products and business use products. ... I think that businesses place more importance on durability and reliability, and are often willing to pay more for this.

It's a good point that businesses place more of a premium on quality, due to heavier use. Commercial-grade printers and appliances, for example, are certainly better-built and much more expensive.

Let's also remember that the purchaser for a large business is not spending his own money. Purchases made by someone for his small business may entail a tax deduction.

Still, the "devolution", or "race to the bottom" associated with outsourcing practically all US consumer-product manufacturing to cheap-labor countries is having serious consequences -- loss of family-wage jobs, loss of know-how and capability, dramatic increase in trade deficits.

That $20 I spent almost 30 years ago for a quality low-tech stapler and box of staples would be about $45 today. Who'd pay that much, when cheaper options abound? Hardly anyone...

-- KS


Edited: 16 Oct 2009, 2:03 a.m.

Hi Ruben,

On behalf of all the members, welcome to the forum ;-)

Myself? I have been a member for only a few months, and had been reading it for quite some time before that. It's a fantastic place.
As you found out, it's full of argumentative and opinionated people :-D

If you were in a room with them, you wouldn't hear the music for the din, and the police would probably knock on the door to ask to keep it down because they'd had complaints from the town next door.

But the wealth of knowledge is staggering; they are argumentative and opinionated, but passionate; they are also very helpful.
Being so "green" myself (or "blue", depending on your custom), I feel a bit awkward putting myself forward like this; I feel it would be more up to long-time members like Maximilian, Egan, Michael, or Luiz, to welcome you...but they were all busy arguing.

Who would have thought that asking a seemingly innocent question would spawn a thread that exploded in just a few days! Talk about baptism of fire. But I see that you held your end very well, parrying and thrusting; I am personally very impressed, although that would hardly count.

So again, welcome, and your HP-48GX looks very nice (I'm not in the running, I've got one like that already :)

Regards (to all),

Philippe


Hello Philippe,

Thank you very much for the warm welcome. I actually have no issue with arguments myself, as you have probably noticed. Regardless, I appreciate all the input received, and I have tried to put each of it in its proper context. Nothing like someone with a view completely different from your own to make you question your own actions. :)

Congratulations on your budding collection! Not everybody can perhaps even attempt to approach the gigantic collections of some of the folks here, but the important thing is not the magnitude of your collection, but your level of enjoyment (and after the discussions in this thread, I'm questioning whether I even am enjoying my meager collection enough to justify being the custodian of it.)

Out of curiosity, how did you get started with HP calculators? Like I said, I became immediately impressed after seeing several 48SX pieces in my old university days. Then, after going back to college to study Math, and despite the absolute dominance of Texas Instruments by then (I'm talking circa 2002,) at least in the U.S., it was only normal that my old interest in these machines would be rekindled.

Thanks again for your welcome!

Regards,

Ruben


In my case the story goes back to the (late 70's and) early 80's. At that time, while in high school (US meaning) in the scientific classes, I managed to acquire an HP-41C. I don't remember how exactly; I think it was second-hand. Before that, I had been using a TI-57. The TI was a great machine to learn on, and it taught me things that I've been using ever since; but the HP was a 'wow' moment. It was simply brilliant, and it got used extensively. At that time, TI and HP were at war, and the top calculators doing battle were the TI-59 and the HP-41. Frankly, I admired the TI-59 too, but the HP-41 was better ;-)

The accessories for the HP were too expensive, and I didn't have any, so when a few years later I needed something more practical, I sold the HP-41 and bought a Casio PB-700 with printer and cassette storage. I always regretted selling the HP-41 (although I know it got to someone who put it to good use, like I had), but a cash-poor student has little choice. Don't get me wrong, the Casio was very good, and it got used nearly every day until the early 90's.

Forward many years, and I thought that I must have enough money now to buy an HP-41 again, this time with accessories - mostly for nostalgia; but I wondered if there were still any out there. Boy, was I surprised! So I got one, then two (you need a backup, right?), got the tape reader for it, then wondered what else from HP was worth looking for (I had seen HP-67s in my youth...). I spare you the details, but I turned into a collector without really realising it. I went through a magpie phase (I'm better now, thanks). It's not just HPs (I've got TIs, Casios, Sharps...), but HPs are the bulk of my collection.

In short, in my case it was nostalgia that made me look again for *the* machine of my youth, and it went on from there :-)

Philippe


Thanks for explaining your path to being a collector. Regarding Casio calculators, I seem to remember there was a Casio calculator which actually had a C compiler built in (or was it a Sharp calculator?) I thought this was quite surprising when I found out about it. You probably know (and possibly own) the calculator that I'm talking about.

Quote:
At that time, TI and HP were at war, and the top calculators doing battle were the TI-59 and the HP-41. Frankly, I admired the TI-59 too, but the HP-41 was better ;-)

The HP-67 was introduced in late 1976, and in response the TI-59 was introduced a few months later in May, 1977. I had both. Although the TI-59 is more technically innovative and has better performance than the HP-67, I went through several TI-59s by 1979 due to reliability problems. I never experienced any problems with my HP-67 until it had been in service more than four years, and the RPN programming was far more efficient than TI's AOS.

Thus, the numeric-only LED HP-67 was the true competitor to the numeric-only-except-for-printing LED TI-59. Introduced in 1979, the fully alphanumeric LCD HP-41C was in the "next generation." It is unfair to characterize the TI-59 as TI's competitor to the HP-41C.


Thanks for the precisions about the dates Mike. I need to put my statement in a narrower time-frame, and then it will be more accurate: I bought my HP-41C probably in late 1979 or early-to-mid 1980, in France. Going by the dates, the HP-41C would have been out (eclipsing the HP-67), with the TI-59 being still alive and kicking (and no sign of any successor until the TI-66 in 1982). At that moment in time then, it is correct that the top calculators doing battle were the TI-59 and the HP-41 ;-)

I agree that the comparison was not fair though, so I stand corrected.

Ruben, I know the Casio you mean. Actually, there are many! But no, I don't own any, yet...I'm aiming for the PB-2000C and the FX-890P. Sharp had similar machines, but I haven't checked in detail.

Oops, we're getting off topic here...

Bonsoir,

Philippe


Philippe,

I apologize if my post sounded like a correction...it was really just an opinion.

Best regards!

Edited: 16 Oct 2009, 10:15 p.m.

Quote:
Ruben, I know the Casio you mean. Actually, there are many! But no, I don't own any, yet...I'm aiming for the PB-2000C and the FX-890P. Sharp had similar machines, but I haven't checked in detail.

Ah, so my memory wasn't completely wrong. Good luck with the hunt for one of these calculators!

Regards,

Ruben


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