Next HP scientific calculator



#24

Hi folks - anyone want to gaze into their crystal ball and predict when the next HP scientific calculator might be released?


#25

Quote:
Hi folks - anyone want to gaze into their crystal ball and predict when the next HP scientific calculator might be released?

Ok...

Eye spy with my little eye, a new HP15C using the new 12C ROM emulation scheme - by, oh, lets say mid year.

Caveat - I could be totally wrong. The next calc might be a Hello Kitty or My Little Pony branded algebraic, out next week.

Dave.


#26

Quote:
a new HP15C using the new 12C ROM emulation scheme - by, oh, lets say mid year.

Yes, I would agree this is much more likely than, say, a 45s or Walter's 43s...


#27

Quote:
Quote:
a new HP15C using the new 12C ROM emulation scheme - by, oh, lets say mid year.

Yes, I would agree this is much more likely than, say, a 45s or Walter's 43s...

As usual, something conservative is more likely than something new. After more than 20 years :-/ But better than nothing.

Edited: 2 Mar 2009, 2:37 a.m.

#28

I'm wondering if hp would provide new manuals for this new 15C or just provide scans of the old 15C excellent manuals ...

#29

First, I don't ever expect to see re-issues of the HP-15C or the HP42S, in any form. But...

A reincarnation of the HP42S (with a more attractive external color scheme) would be far better than wasting effort on the HP-15C. The HP42S has a two-line alphanumeric display, ten times the effective speed, 15 times the RAM, several orders of magnitude greater precision, audible beeps, IR printer output, alphanumeric program steps, more natural complex number handling (yea, I know you can't directly manually enter four complex numbers to the stack...big deal), much more natural matrix handling, a user accessible machine-level debugger, and other features that the HP-15C lacks or implements weakly. Overall, the increased capabilities and ease of use of the HP42S are an order of magnitude better. Plus, a "landscape" keyboard on a hand held calculator is cute (appeals to those business users of the HP-12C), but it is less effectively usable than the "portrait" arrangement when actually being used hand held!

Like many other calc nuts, I occasionally like to take a particular program I've written for a recent calculator, and implement it on older machines such as the HP-25, HP-34C, HP-41CX, HP-15C, and HP42S. Any time I use anything earlier than the HP42S, the advantages of the HP42S become immediately obvious.

I'm not knocking the HP-15C. IMHO, it's the second-best RPN calculator of all time. I've had one since 1986, using it daily at work for 11 years. But its HP42S replacement is simply stunning. Only the color scheme and display sharpness are inferior.

I believe that HP adapted the "Pioneer" HP17BII to Chinese technology (HP17BII+ ??), so the same could be done for the "Pioneer" HP42S. Even if Walter's HP43S could never be made, a re-issued HP42S would still be welcome.

The HP42S...I guess you could say I'm a fan. :-)


Edited: 1 Mar 2009, 12:05 p.m.


#30

Mike, I agree with everything you said; but I was responding to DaveJ's original answer, not what makes the most sense from a user's standpoint.

My opinion is based in part on HP's little poll they conducted a couple of months ago, which, IMO, was biased so that the 15c would come out on top. This suggests to me that HP has been considering just what DaveJ postulated.

It would seem that would be the easiest route for HP to take. The next easiest would be something based on the 20b platform.


#31

Quote:
Mike, I agree with everything you said; but I was responding to DaveJ's original answer, not what makes the most sense from a user's standpoint.

My opinion is based in part on HP's little poll they conducted a couple of months ago, which, IMO, was biased so that the 15c would come out on top. This suggests to me that HP has been considering just what DaveJ postulated.


Yes, and add to the fact that HP have recently "reclaimed" rights to all the Voyager ROM's as such.

http://nonpareil.brouhaha.com/

From a development point of view, a ROM emulated 15C is essentially trivial. I'd be very surprised if the HP engineers don't already have a proto on their desks (if anything, just for fun).

A new 15C in the market would have to be marketed with clear vintage/retro and form factor appeal, otherwise it's limited display/user interface would be considered a joke in the modern market.

Quote:
It would seem that would be the easiest route for HP to take. The next easiest would be something based on the 20b platform.

20B is the new HP platform so it's almost inevitable that we'll eventually see a scientific calc based on that platform. Just add firmware and a front panel. But please HP, fix the silly high clock speed/battery life design issue.

Dave.


#32

Quote:
A new 15C in the market would have to be marketed with clear vintage/retro and form factor appeal...

Let us hope that HP will invest enough to produce it with keys that are at least close to the look and feel of the original ones, with rounded edges and true colors, not like the cheaper-looking ones on the 12c Platinum 25 anniv. ed., (red-orange shift which should be yellow).
#33

Quote:
A new 15C in the market would have to be marketed with clear vintage/retro and form factor appeal, otherwise it's limited display/user interface would be considered a joke in the modern market.

Also this second half of the quoted sentence had to be said once. Thanks, Dave!
#34

Quote:
From a development point of view, a ROM emulated 15C is essentially trivial.

I would think the form factor is essentially trivial too, since they already have it - more or less - in the 12c. I also think the 15c style calculator is still very useful in today's workplace... Easily carried, can be used at the desk or in the field to do simple or more complex calculations. And it's programmable!

I've never owned a 42s but I suspect most people today use its extended capabilities to exercise their mind and not necessarily for production. Of course exercising retro geeks minds is a worthy proposition, I don't think it's profitable for HP.

Cheers,

Brent

Edited: 1 Mar 2009, 8:13 p.m.


#35

Quote:
I would think the form factor is essentially trivial too, since they already have it - more or less - in the 12c.

Yep, the only thing they would have to change is the key legends and front plate. The electronics platform is already in place, they could even use the same PCB, just requires different firmware.

It would even be worth it to do as a premium cost low volume niche market product. And I believe HP even once indicated they were willing to discuss such low volume (1000's) custom products with the appropriate people.

i.e. if someone was entrepreneurial enough to approach HP and say they would buy say 5000 15C's HP might actually consider it.

Dave.


#36

Quote:
Yep, the only thing they would have to change is the key legends and front plate. The electronics platform is already in place, they could even use the same PCB, just requires different firmware.

Same can be said of the new 17BII+. No reason it cannot be a 42S as well. Number/position of keys and the display are the same. I say, do them both. If HrastProgrammer can emulate the 42S with the original 42S ROM on the 48GX, then anything is possible.

#37

Does anyone knows which processor is used on the HP17BII+ silver?


#38

Bonjour Didier,

you may find an answer here.

#39

HP17BII+ has a lot better looking slanted keys and looks better than the HP42S overall, I hope the keys are as good mechanically as the ones on the original HP42S


#40

Quote:
I hope the keys are as good mechanically as the ones on the original HP42S

Only time can tell. But the tactile feedback feels definitively good - big advantage over the 20b as is.

The advantage the 17bii+ silver platform has over the 12cpt+ is it replaces a 28 year old LCD by a 21 year old. Soft keys are featured on the 17bii+, but impossible on the 12cpt+. OTOH the 12cpt+ is more compact and less load for the shirt pocket.

What a difference soft keys make was told here repeatedly. For example, a scientific "17bii+ silver" may look
like this. The display window would allow for better LCDs.


Edited: 2 Mar 2009, 2:24 a.m.


#41

I love your designs but where is the "silver" part here? 17BII+ looks cool partly because of that. I assume () is there to serve the equation writer, isn't it? But where are P-R and R-P? I'd stay away from 35S shortcomings.

Always enjoying your ideas
Best regards,
Reth

BTW nice place for R/S - exactly where it should be ;)


Edited: 2 Mar 2009, 5:25 a.m.


#42

Thanks, reth, for your friendly words. Of course, you can get this with a silver keyplate, too. Just the contrast of gold on silver is a bit low ;) but we'll find a solution for that.

Quote:
I assume ( ) is there to serve the equation writer, isn't it?

Correct. And it takes care of our algebraic friends.
Quote:
But where are P-R and R-P?

P>R and R>P are in the menu CONVERT. Keyboard space is limited.

After all, the 44s is just another second best solution - I prefer a 43s if I had a choice.

Best regards,

Walter


#43

Walter, a friendly advice:

go and do all you can to become a HP designer! Cheat, steal, lie, do anything you need: I want all real calculators of yours under my fingers! ;.)

-- Antonio


#44

Quote:
Cheat, steal, lie, do anything you need

That's exactly what us design engineers need to do to get a useful product out the door, instead of one that was designed by marketing!

I think you'd actually be surprised, in general, how little say design engineers have in the final released product design in large companies like HP.

Coincidentally, I almost applied for a job in the HP calculator design group way back when they were in Melbourne Australia and they advertised for a hardware designer. I think they went belly-up not long after, so probably wouldn't have been a good move.

Dave.


#45

Quote:
That's exactly what us design engineers need to do to get a useful product out the door, instead of one that was designed by marketing!

I think you'd actually be surprised, in general, how little say design engineers have in the final released product design in large companies like HP.


Judging from what I've observed over the last 20 years, I am not surprised.
#46

I think HP could greatly improve the 50g with two minor changes. Both changes make User-defined keys much easier to use.

1. Keyboard overlays similar to the 41 series. You could place these over the keyboard and a spring clip held them in place. You write the user-defined functions on the overlay to you knew which key did what. This would require some physical changes to the case and, of course, the overlays themselves. But they could charge for the overlays.

2. On the HP 41, if you pressed and held a key for a few moments, the display would show the function that they would perform. Continue holding the key for about 2 seconds and the display would change to "NULL" which meant you could release the key now and it wouldn't do anything. This was another handy way to know what user-defined keys did in case you'd forgotten (or lost your overlay :) ).

With these changes, you could modify the keyboard to suit the problem at hand. Doing calculus today? Slap in your calculus overlay and load the calculus key definitions. No need now to hunt through the menus for the functions and you can use the soft keys for other things. Doing some programming this evening? Drop in the programming overlay and definitions.


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