17B/II, different models...

[Guido Fernandes]

I've seen that there are several models of 17B and 17BII financial calculators... and I'd like to know the complete succession of these models...


Regarding 17B:

a) I only know display with flat bezel around... is it correct?

b) I've only seen it with 5 rubber feet (1 larger behind the screen and 2 couple smaller at the bottom)and brown bi-colour bezel among keys... right?

c) it exists for sure in two language version: only English and multi-language (DEUT, ENGL, ESPN, FRAN, ITAL, PORT)... are there any others? which country does HP sell them in? is it possible to understand the model from the Serial #?


Regarding 17BII:

a) I only know display with stepped bezel around... is it correct?

b) I know it exists in 3 different version: 1) 5 rubber feet (1 larger behind the screen and 2 couple smaller at the bottom) and brown bi-colour bezel among keys; 2) 3 rubber feet (1 larger behind the screen and only 2 smaller at the bottom) and brown bi-colour bezel among keys; 3) 3 rubber feet and black single-colour bezel among keys... right? is fo, does anyone know the different Serial #? I only know that they are - in this order - from older to newer!

c) it exists for sure in two language version: only English and multi-language (DEUT, ENGL, ESPN, FRAN, ITAL, PORT)... are there any others? which country does HP sell them in? is it possible to understand the model from the Serial #?


Thanks in advance, good evening,

Guido

[Guido Fernandes]

Could anyone help me?

[Jeff O.]

My 17B, S/N 2803A, is as you describe: flat bezel, five feet, brown bi-color faceplate among the keys. It is English only, as far as I can tell.

My 17BII, S/N ID941, has a stepped bezel, three feet and the faceplate among the keys is two colors. However, I would describe the colors as black (surrounding the bottom seven key rows) and brown (surrounding the top-row keys.) The colors are distinctly different from the corresponding areas on my 17B. My 17BII is English only, as far as I can tell.

[Guido Fernandes]

Thanks Jeff, you are right... 17BII bi-colour is darker than 17B bi-colour... anyway I think this discussion isn't interesting, so thanks for your contribute!


Good evening,

Guido

[NACHO]

Hi Guido,

17B have better Keyboard than 17BII.

When I say better Keyboard is better feeling and no click when pressing.

I have a 17B and a 17Bii and incredible difference...

the same happens to 32Sii brown bezel vs black bezel...

bye

[Guido Fernandes]

I partially agree... I try toexplain better:

1) regarding 32SII, it's true... because I think you are considering brown bezel from Singapore and black bezel from Indonesia... 32SII made in Singapore has better keyboard than 32SII from Indonesia!

2) regarding 17B/II... it's difficult... I've a 17B (USA 1988) and a brown bezel 17BII (Singapore 1990), and I can't see or hear difference about keyboard... on the contrary I own also a black bezel 17BII (Indonesia 2000 or 2001) and its keyboard produce more noise (even if it's 100% working)... is your 17BII from Singapore or Malaysia or Indonesia?


Thanks, have a nice evening,

Guido

[Mark Edmonds]

I'm very interested in getting all the Pioneer variations documented. I have about 6 or 7 of them and they are all different in some ways - different key material, lables, decals, display, etc..

I don't know if that has been done before but I could list the ones I've got and they could be compared to other peoples' collections and maybe, patterns will emerge.

Mark

[Guido Fernandes]

Yes, exactly what I want to do... but there is so many divverent version of a single model that I think it's better to subdivide model by model... or not?

[Mark Edmonds]

First of all, it might be better just to collect as much information on all the variations that we can find and then decide how to group or categorise it.

Worth starting a new thread I think so draw attention to the idea.

Mark

[Guido Fernandes]

Yes, I think it's a good idea... but I've already written what I know, and moreover it seems to be impossible to keep a discussion up... I don't know...

[Mark Edmonds]

I've compiled a table of the main differences between the ones I've got. I'll get the details posted here later today.

Mark

[Mark Edmonds]

I've just copied this out of a XLS file so the formatting is probably all shot up. I'll rejig it.

Categories are:

Display type (flush, bevel 1 step or bevel 2 step)
HP Badge (Separate plastic insert or printed)
Key Appearance (Matt, Gloss, Silk screen(?), Moulded letters?)
Key Weight (how heavy the keys are to push)
Bezel Printing (Silk Screen?, Ink?, Transfer?)
#Rubber Feet (3 or 5)
Case Type (Plastic ridged or soft stitched)
Year
Week
Country

I am not usre on the printing techniques used for the decals and key letters when they aren't moulded but I've used silk screen for most and transfer where abvious and the mysterious Ink which is on my 20S and if you look at it using a magnifying glass, really does look like a line of ink has been drawn onto the surface. This finish is by far the most appealing IMO.

If I could find a 32SII with the Ink letters and gloss moulded keys, I would be very happy!

Results for those I have:

10B:

Bevel one step
Printed
Matt Silk Screen?
Heavier
Silk Screen?
3
Smooth Edge Sticthed
1998
46
I

14B:

Flush
Plastic
Matt Moulded
Average
Silk Screen?
5
Ridged Edge
1988
52
A

17B:

Flush
Plastic
Gloss moulded letters
Lighter
Silk Screen?
5
Ridged Edge
1988
12
A

17BII:

Bevel two step
Plastic
Gloss moulded letters
Average
Silk Screen?
5
Smooth Edge
1994
37
S

20S:

Bevel one step
Printed
Gloss moulded letters
Average
Ink
5
Ridged Edge
1989
29
A

27S:

Flush
Plastic
Gloss moulded letters
Average
Silk Screen?
5
Ridged Edge
1988
25
A

32SII:

Bevel two step
Plastic
Matt Silk Screen?
Heavier
Transfer
5
Smooth Edge
1995
45
S

How does this look compared with your thoughts?

Mark

[Guido Fernandes]

Hi Mark, you have considered more and more parameters than me... anyway it seems to be similar to my Pioneers... tomorrow I'll check better and give you a response!

Is it possible to attach a file? I think an Excel file is much better to update... and moreover it's possible to black-paint the impossible combination (for example, 42S with 1 step bezel doesn't exist!)... what do you think?

[Marcus von Cube, Germany]

Mark, I added a little formatting to your list:

---

I've just copied this out of a XLS file so the formatting is probably all shot up. I'll rejig it.

Categories are:

Display type (flush, bevel 1 step or bevel 2 step)

HP Badge (Separate plastic insert or printed)

Key Appearance (Matt, Gloss, Silk screen(?), Moulded letters?)

Key Weight (how heavy the keys are to push)

Bezel Printing (Silk Screen?, Ink?, Transfer?)

#Rubber Feet (3 or 5)

Case Type (Plastic ridged or soft stitched)

Year

Week

Country

I am not usre on the printing techniques used for the decals and key letters when they aren't moulded but I've used silk screen for most and transfer where abvious and the mysterious Ink which is on my 20S and if you look at it using a magnifying glass, really does look like a line of ink has been drawn onto the surface. This finish is by far the most appealing IMO.

If I could find a 32SII with the Ink letters and gloss moulded keys, I would be very happy!

Results for those I have:

10B:

Bevel one step

Printed

Matt Silk Screen?

Heavier

Silk Screen?

3

Smooth Edge Sticthed

1998

46

I

14B:

Flush

Plastic

Matt Moulded

Average

Silk Screen?

5

Ridged Edge

1988

52

A

17B:

Flush

Plastic

Gloss moulded letters

Lighter

Silk Screen?

5

Ridged Edge

1988

12

A

17BII:

Bevel two step

Plastic

Gloss moulded letters

Average

Silk Screen?

5

Smooth Edge

1994

37

S

20S:

Bevel one step

Printed

Gloss moulded letters

Average

Ink

5

Ridged Edge

1989

29

A

27S:

Flush

Plastic

Gloss moulded letters

Average

Silk Screen?

5

Ridged Edge

1988

25

A

32SII:

Bevel two step

Plastic

Matt Silk Screen?

Heavier

Transfer

5

Smooth Edge

1995

45

S

How does this look compared with your thoughts?

Mark

---

Marcus

[Mark Edmonds]

Thanks Marcus - more legible now. Have you got any Pioneers you could add your results to please?

Mark

[Guido Fernandes]

Hi Mark, I'm doing a table as yours... but I don't understand "Case Type (Plastic ridged or soft stitched)"... what is the difference?

[Mark Edmonds]

Hi Guido - it is the carry case whether it has a ridged plastic material or a softer stiched (still plastic though?) material. The stitched cases are much nicer and the ridged plastic are rather crude I think. Look forward to seeing your results.

Mark

Edit: That still probably isn't very clear. When I mean ridged plastic, I don't mean a texture to the plastic. I mean the seams of the case where the two halves are joined forms a large ridge. Unfortunately, I don't know of any photos to link to to show you. Documenting the case differences might seem a little trivial but if we are going to do this, I'd rather we covered everything we can think of!

Edited: 1 Nov 2008, 8:28 a.m.

[Guido Fernandes]

Maybe I've understood... to be sure:

- ridged plastic;

- soft stitched.

Is it right? Can you confirmif I have understood?

[Mark Edmonds]

Yep! That's right. (Why on earth didn't I think of linking Ebay pictures?!)

I think there might be a 3rd case variant in brown leather with a clasp but I'm not sure on that. Does anyone know what I mean? Was it a standard case or a 3rd party one?

Mark

[Guido Fernandes]

Well! Regarding 3rd option, do you intend one similar to Clamshell case? If so, I have a 42S with this case! Now I try to find an image...

[Guido Fernandes]

Do you mean this one?

[Mark Edmonds]

I haven't been able to find the case I am thinking of yet. Maybe my memory is confused. If I see it, I'll post a link. It isn't the one you've linked.

I have just realised a major Pioneer variation that we haven't mentioned so far and this is a big one - the blue/orange or green/violet colour schemes! Two different appearances. I don't have any green/violet ones but I'll be on the lookout now.

Mark

[Walter B]

Quote:

---

the blue/orange or green/violet colour schemes

---

... existed only for the 32sii and 20s AFAIK. A 20s in tan/violet is a bit harder to find than the respective 32sii.

HTH

Walter

[Mark Edmonds]

Quote:

---

... existed only for the 32sii and 20s AFAIK. A 20s in tan/violet is a bit harder to find than the respective 32sii.

HTH

Walter

---

Thanks Walter - that's useful to know. Did you really mean tan/violet or green/violet? There isn't a 3rd combination is there?

Mark

[Walter B]

IIRC the official name is purple/tan. HP made this error only once. No other colors besides blue/gold and purple/tan until the Chinese took over ;)

[Mark Edmonds]

To my definition, tan is a light brown colour so I am a little surprised if that is the official description.

According to a couple of manuals I have just checked, the colours are refered to as blue/orange and purple/green. May not be the internal names of course. I do much prefer the blue/orange - a more technical colour scheme!

Mark

[Walter B]

Mark,

you're right, of course. Purple/green is correct. Happened to me because I mixed words ("tannengrün" was what had in mind). Sorry for the confusion.

[Guido Fernandes]

I've posted my models in answer to my first post, but they have been separated (from this discussion) and I've not understood the reason... have you seen my answers?

[Mark Edmonds]

Hi Guido - yes, I've seen your answers. Nice collection you have there! I just haven't had time the last couple of days to work on this but tomorrow should be OK. I'll collate all our results and then probably start a new thread to get answers from everyone else.

Mark

[Guido Fernandes]

Excellent, thanks! No hurry at all, I've only some problem to understand the way which the Forum works in...

[Didier Lachieze]

Quote:

---

I'll collate all our results and then probably start a new thread to get answers from everyone else.

---

Have you considered using Google Documents to put your results in a spreadsheet accessible on the web for everybody rather than in an Excel file?
Using access control you can also allow selected users to modify the document and input directly their data in the spreadsheet.

Edited: 5 Nov 2008, 4:01 a.m.

[Mark Edmonds]

Quote:

---

Have you considered using Google Documents to put your results in a spreadsheet accessible on the web for everybody rather than in an Excel file?
Using access control you can also allow selected users to modify the document and input directly their data in the spreadsheet.

---

Thanks for the idea. I know nothing about this system so I will investigate (as long as I don't need to supply DNA samples to Google!!).

Mark

[Mark Edmonds]

Quote:

---

Have you considered using Google Documents to put your results in a spreadsheet accessible on the web for everybody rather than in an Excel file?
Using access control you can also allow selected users to modify the document and input directly their data in the spreadsheet.

---

Didier,

I've been looking at this idea. Am I right in thinking that anyone who wants to edit the document has to sign on with Google Docs and create their own account for logging in/document access needs?

If so, I don't know how everyone would feel about that. I am very reluctant to create accounts everywhere with my e-mail and other details and I can well understand other people feeling the same way.

On the other hand, it might be possible in Google Docs to leave the document open globally which means anyone on the planet can edit without control.

Getting exact answers to these questions is not simple on the main Google site!

Mark

[Didier Lachieze]

Mark, you have full control about how you share documents: you can let people edit without signing in, let people view without signing in, or always require sign-in to access the document. If you want to control who can edit the document then authorized people will need to have a Google account. To create a Google account you just have to provide a valid email address and a password.

I've created one document with your initial data and configured it to let people edit without signing so you can play with Google Docs:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pEcTVgx7euTozd4t-LYxeEQ&hl=en

Edited: 7 Nov 2008, 7:48 a.m.

[Guido Fernandes]

It seems to be good... I already have a Gmail account: could I use the same account? Gmail is from Google...

[Didier Lachieze]

Yes, same login for all Google services.

[Mark Edmonds]

Hi folks,

I just wanted to apologise for having been inactive here for a while. In fact, I am "out of the loop" for the forseeable future. I'm not going to put details down in an open forum but it is an emergency of the type that we all have to deal with at some point in our lives. I'll be back when I'm back. See you then...

Mark

[Guido Fernandes]

On eBay you can find NEW (unopened package) purple/green 20S from jgoodry... I bought my one from his and he is selling others now!

[Mark Edmonds]

Damn. I would really like a purple/green 20S. There is a long story behind it but I have a soft-spot for the 20S, I think it is a very fine machine (which might sound bonkers in the RPN world) but it is!

Unfortunately, $99 is too much for me, especially with the current exchange rate and he doesn't list selling to the UK either. The Pound/Dollar value has really dropped badly recently so US prices have effectively all gone up over 30%.

Thanks for pointing it out though :)

Mark

[Guido Fernandes]

For the price, you are right that $99 is an high price... anyway his 20S are really new (NIB, unopened)!
Regarding shipping, if you ask to him, for sure he send to Europe (I'm from Italy!)!

[Guido Fernandes]

First of all, I'll define the parameters of the comparation:

1) S/N;

2) HP badge;

3) Display bezel;

4) bezel print;

5) Display type;

6) Color scheme;

7) Keys appearence;

8) Keys strenght;

9) Rubber feet;

10) Case type.

[Guido Fernandes]

Financial Pioneer models!

10B v1:

1) 2943A33748 (43rd week of 1989, USA);

2) silk-screen;

3) 1-step;

4) silk-screen;

5) low-level type;

6) yellow shift, black background;

7) near-glossy, moulded;

8) light;

9) 5;

10) soft stitched.

10B v2:

1) ID82801848 (28th week of 1998, Indonesia);

2) ink;

3) 1-step;

4) ink;

5) low-level type;

6) yellow shift, black background;

7) matte, silk-screen;

8) average;

9) 3;

10) soft stitched.

10B v3:

1) ID00904781 (9th week of 2000, Indonesia);

2) transfer;

3) 1-step;

4) transfer;

5) low-level type;

6) green shift, black background;

7) matte, silk-screen;

8) heavy;

9) 3;

10) soft stitched.

14B 50th Anniversary:

1) 2842A14658 (42nd week of 1988, USA);

2) separate plastic;

3) flush;

4) silk-screen;

5) old mid-level type;

6) yellow shift, brown bi-colour backgroud;

7) near-glossy, moulded;

8) light;

9) 5;

10) 50th Anniversary very soft stitched.

14B:

1) 3042S00491 (42nd week of 1990, Singapore);

2) separate plastic;

3) flush;

4) silk-screen;

5) new mid-level type;

6) yellow shift, brown bi-colour backgroud;

7) glossy, moulded;

8) average;

9) 5;

10) soft stitched.

17B, only-English version:

1) 2812A09309 (12th week of 1988, USA);

2) separate plastic;

3) flush;

4) silk-screen;

5) old high-level type;

6) yellow shift, brown bi-colour backgroud;

7) near-glossy, moulded;

8) light;

9) 5;

10) plastic ridged.

17B, multi-language version:

1) 2904S31312 (4th week of 1989, Singapore);

2) separate plastic;

3) flush;

4) silk-screen;

5) old high-level type;

6) yellow shift, brown bi-colour backgroud;

7) glossy, moulded;

8) average;

9) 5;

10) plastic ridged.

17BII v1, multi-language version:

1) 3043S00092 (43rd week of 1990, Singapore);

2) separate plastic;

3) 2-step;

4) silk-screen;

5) new high-level type;

6) yellow shift, brown bi-colour backgroud;

7) glossy, moulded;

8) average;

9) 5;

10) soft stitched.

17BII v2, only-English version:

1) ID90202185 (2nd week of 1999, Indonesia);

2) separate plastic;

3) 2-step;

4) ink;

5) new high-level type;

6) yellow shift, brown bi-colour backgroud;

7) glossy, silk-screen;

8) average;

9) 3;

10) soft stitched.

17BII v2, multi-language version:

1) ID91000141 (10th week of 1999, Indonesia);

2) separate plastic;

3) 2-step;

4) ink;

5) new high-level type;

6) yellow shift, brown bi-colour backgroud;

7) glossy, silk-screen;

8) average;

9) 3;

10) soft stitched.

17BII v3, only-English version:

1) ID04203270 (42nd week of 2000, Indonesia);

2) separate plastic;

3) 2-step;

4) ink;

5) new high-level type;

6) dark-yellow shift, black backgroud;

7) glossy, silk-screen;

8) heavy;

9) 3;

10) soft stitched.

Edited: 2 Nov 2008, 6:08 p.m.

[V-PN]

Anyone wants to buy a 17B, 17BII ?

[Guido Fernandes]

Scientific RPN Pioneer models!

32S 50th Anniversary:

1) 2913A10555 (13th week of 1989, USA);

2) separate plastic;

3) flush;

4) silk-screen;

5) old mid-level type;

6) orange shift, brown bi-color background;

7) near-glossy, moulded;

8) light;

9) 5;

10) 50th Anniversary very soft stitched.

32S v1:

1) 2935S21112 (35th week of 1989, Singapore);

2) separate plastic;

3) flush;

4) silk-screen;

5) old mid-level type;

6) orange shift, brown bi-color background;

7) glossy, moulded;

8) average;

9) 5;

10) ridged plastic.

32S v2:

1) 3051S05978 (51st week of 1990, Singapore);

2) separate plastic;

3) 2-step;

4) silk-screen;

5) new mid-level type;

6) orange shift, brown bi-color background;

7) glossy, moulded;

8) average;

9) 5;

10) soft stitched.

32SII v1:

1) ID71605886 (16th week of 1997, Indonesia);

2) separate plastic;

3) 2-step;

4) silk-screen;

5) new mid-level type;

6) blue/orange shifts, brown bi-color background;

7) matte, silk-screen;

8) average;

9) 5;

10) soft stitched.

32SII v2:

1) ID91101536 (11th week of 1999, Indonesia);

2) separate plastic;

3) 2-step;

4) silk-screen;

5) new mid-level type;

6) blue/orange shifts, brown bi-color background;

7) matte, silk-screen;

8) average;

9) 3;

10) soft stitched.

32SII v3:

1) ID15000067 (50th week of 2001, Indonesia);

2) separate plastic;

3) 2-step;

4) ink;

5) new mid-level type;

6) purple/green shifts, black background;

7) matte, silk-screen;

8) heavy;

9) 3;

10) soft stitched.

42S v1:

1) 2911S33509 (11th week of 1989, Singapore);

2) separate plastic;

3) flush;

4) silk-screen;

5) old high-level type;

6) orange shift, brown bi-color background;

7) glossy, moulded;

8) average;

9) 5;

10) leather with clasp.

42S v2:

1) 3149S03480 (49th week of 1991, Singapore);

2) separate plastic;

3) 2-step;

4) silk-screen;

5) new high-level type;

6) orange shift, brown bi-color background;

7) glossy, moulded;

8) average;

9) 5;

10) soft stitched.

[Guido Fernandes]

Scientific ALG Pioneer models!

20S v1:

1) 3105S01780 (5th week of 1991, Singapore);

2) silk-screen;

3) 1-step;

4) silk-screen;

5) low-level type;

6) blue/orange shift, black background;

7) glossy, moulded;

8) average;

9) 5;

10) soft stitched.

20S v2:

1) ID11103269 (11th week of 2001, Indonesia);

2) ink;

3) 1-step;

4) ink;

5) low-level type;

6) purple/green shift, black background;

7) matte, silk-screen;

8) heavy;

9) 3;

10) soft stitched.

21S:

1) 3121S05705 (21st week of 1991, Singapore);

2) silk-screen;

3) 1-step;

4) silk-screen;

5) low-level type;

6) blue/orange shift, brown background;

7) glossy, moulded;

8) average;

9) 5;

10) soft stitched.

22S v1:

1) 2826A33129 (26th week of 1988, USA);

2) separate plastic;

3) flush;

4) silk-screen;

5) old mid-level type;

6) blue shift, brown bi-color background;

7) near-glossy, moulded;

8) light;

9) 5;

10) ridged plastic.

27S v1:

1) 2822A03171 (22nd week of 1988, USA);

2) separate plastic;

3) flush;

4) silk-screen;

5) old high-level type;

6) blue shift, brown bi-color background;

7) near-glossy, moulded;

8) light;

9) 5;

10) soft stitched.