HP calculator - pure RPN only



#16

HP calculator manuals for the current models are, IMHO, mostly confusing, poorly written and not well thought out.

Many old HP calculators were pure RPN machines: the venerable HP 41C, the original HP 12C, the HP 48G, just to name a few, come to mind. Their manuals were exemplary in clarity because they did not have to switch back and forth between illustrating operations in RPN and algebraic.

The current crop of HP machines like the HP 50G, the HP 35S, the HP 12C Platinum and the HP 20b are also capable of algebraic operations.

I would like to see HP return to making pure RPN machines in the future. I have a son aged 17 whom I want to teach to use RPN calculator for college, and later university. I am hesitant to buy the current dual RPN/algebraic models for him for fearing that he would relapse to algebraic mode. I would be very pleased if HP produced an RPN 4 banger :-)

What do other forumers think of this matter?

hpnut in Malaysia


#17

I think you are too strict!

ALG mode and equations have their advantages, especially if you want to recall some previous calculation from the history. I often fight against the "stack amnesia" which in many cases cannot be cured by the "undo" or "last stack" operations.

#18

hpnut, how did you learn RPN? On your own? A 17-year-old may be mature enough to choose the calculator he needs and to even choose the entry method he likes to work with, don't you think?!? ;-) So hand some of your gear over to him and let him play with it.


#19

Quote:
hpnut, how did you learn RPN? On your own? A 17-year-old may be mature enough to choose the calculator he needs and to even choose the entry method he likes to work with, don't you think?!? ;-) So hand some of your gear over to him and let him play with it.

yes, I was self taught in RPN. when I bought an HP 10C in 1989, RPN was the only way to use the calculator :-)

#20

Hello!

Quote:
What do other forumers think of this matter?

I will let my son decide for himself, what calculator to use. Honestly, I do not think that either algebraic or UPN will make his college or university career harder or easier for him. Mostly because he will probably not use a pocket calculator much, anyway. We live in the twentyfirst century now.

Quote:
I would be very pleased if HP produced an RPN 4 banger :-)

Why do you not "make" one for him that runs on his iPhone or iPod touch? At least you can be sure that he will use it from time to time ;-)

Greetings, Max

#21

Yes, I agree entirely. I wish they would make a new RPN only scientific calculator just like the good old days. Would be nice to have a model with LED displays too so us aging folk with bad eyesight can read the darn thing. Some of the newer models with matrix LCD displays have such bad displays I can hardly read them. I bought a 33s a few years back and it took me half an hour to find the decimal point. I eventually gave up with it and found a 41CX on eBay. I wish they would bring back an "anniversary" edition of the 29C or 67 but I'm not holding my breath. As for your son, you can still get second hand 41C's (and lots of accessories) in excellent condition :)

The market has certainly shifted. HP used to make calculators for professionals and the quality (and price) reflected this. The main market for calculators now seems to be high school students and the quality and cost now reflects this. Sadly, I think the golden age of HP calculators may be behind us. Maybe I'm just getting old?

#22

As said here in this forum several times: The tasks we used calculators for in the Seventies and early Eighties are taken over by PCs for long. The "ecological niche" calculators live in shrinked to areas where PCs are too expensive (student's bags), not allowed (exams), too heavy or too big or too sensible (some field applications, becoming less with time). To make things more complicated, there appeared a new species (i.e. PDAs) in between. Thus, for any calc manufacturer, it seems to be wise not to split up the market furthermore, especially when talking about an "exotic" OS like RPN.

Looking at it the other way round: If anybody creates a scientific calc, he simply can't afford to drop a major fraction of its potential customers by excluding so called algebraic mode. So the best you'll get is both modes (A + RPN).

And if RPN is still as superior as we think here (me too), it will draw many RPNers by its sheer presence in such calculators. IMHO, you won't get new RPN afficionados (incl. your son) by force, though you may be right in your opinion. Same as in politics, but that's O.T.

Ceterum censeo: HP, launch a 43s.

Walter


Edited: 12 Oct 2008, 7:23 a.m.


#23

HP 35s is great as it is,
but HP 42sx with SD would be wonderful:
more speed, much more RAM, and SD card
(or optionally USB interface)

SD is better since one could store surveying data

At least the ROM should be user upgradeable
thus HP could (once again) publish an "early" beta
and fix it later...I would get one for sure!

HP 42sx (Scientifix eXpandable)
with new high contrast LCD
maybe even XYZT display option
normally menu would "steal" real-estate for T-reg
and maybe a status line could "hide" Z-reg
but a full stack LCD woul be marvellous

Hmm... the 32 pixels high 28C/S (18C,19B..)
could support menu and using a minifont a 4 line stack
actually the cursor selection key on my HP-28S
certainly suppresses the menu area for s4-line stack
thus 32-pixels seems to enough for full stack anf menu
or big font stack and no menu
or in minifont also showing L-register
What a great way to teach new kids the wonderfull world of RPN!!
It's just like pencil and paper:
5 [ENTER]
4 [+]
___________
9

How could it be any easier!

HP: Bring us a new XYZT(L or menu) HP 42sx
OR just big letters 42
and have an add on magazines & net:
the ultimate answer to the universum question is:

444 22222
4 44 22 2
4 44 2
4444444 22
44 22
44 22
44 2222222


#24

formatting got lost...
:-(


#25

Hyvää päivää Veli-Pekka,

Free recommendations: For formatting read here. For displays read the upcoming issue of Datafile. BTW, what you call 42sx I call 43s.

Ceterum censeo: HP, launch a 43s.

Walter



Edited: 12 Oct 2008, 12:59 p.m.

#26

Quote:
HP: Bring us a new XYZT(L or menu) HP 42sx

I too would like something that looked like this:

P.S. your formatting fixed:

Quote:
OR just big letters 42
and have an add on magazines & net:
the ultimate answer to the universum question is:
   444    22222
4 44 22 2
4 44 2
4444444 22
44 22
44 22
44 2222222


#27

too high LCD
I'd rather have one more row of keys on the 42
with choise of minifont and standard one could choose
(even in 32-pixel hight)
between full stack and L/menu (minifont)
and full stack no menu/menu-T (missing T)
BUT
since the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy could be used in ads
(I would even use "Deep Thought" in ads)
so - simply - don't add anything to that (resulting 43)
:-D
the ultimate result is 42 (6*9 base 13)
also
42 is a perfect score on the USA Math Olympiad and International Mathematical Olympiad.


#28

Here's what you can do with 32 pixels:

This is a minifont display to be used for matrix editing. The bottom line is taken by a row of soft keys, the top line by status indicators. Such an LCD allows for bigger fonts, too, for enhanced readability. You may display 3 stack levels with ease.

Ceterum censeo: HP, launch a 43s.

Walter


Edited: 14 Oct 2008, 3:27 p.m.


#29

then soft menu should also be hidden when user chooses so
like shift and hold + ON
Also :
no status line, but a few indicators instead
NO<W you have some real acreen estate!!!

Nice picture!
remember: the ultimate answer is 42


#30

Hyvää päivää Veli-Pekka,

Quote:
then soft menu should also be hidden when user chooses so like shift and hold + ON Also : no status line, but a few indicators instead

> The soft menu will be hidden by m-shift EXIT, 
and will show up again after another m-shift EXIT.
> IMHO, a status line is far more versatile than some fixed indicators.
You can use such a full dot matrix display for any application now.
Quote:
NO<W you have some real acreen estate!!!

If you want more screen space, then you must spend more pixels. If you want your message formatting conserved, so you see it again after posting, you shall use [pre] and [/pre]. There are even further formatting opportunities ;)

Ceterum censeo: HP, launch a 43s.

Walter


Edited: 15 Oct 2008, 8:10 a.m.


#31

43s - NO!!!

Wikipedia on the number 42


#32

:D

Congratulations!

How about (42+1)s ?

Or (42 + (sin^2(42) + cos^2(42))^42)s ?

Or ...

#33

I have found that having ALG in addition to RPN is sometimes an incredible advantage.
I would normally use RPN. But I can't do that when a colleague tells me which calculation he needs doing. However many people say that RPN is more natural, that does not help. If someone is reading an equation to you, he will read it in ALG mode. Unless maybe he is a user of this forum.

Arnaud


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