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HP12C new models?



#14

It seems like the "new" HP12C calculators have a bad keyboard.....sometimes when you press a key two or three numbers appear on the display.
Is it possible that the quality of the newer productionseries became so much lower???
I decided to look for a secondhand (old) model of HP11C or HP15C.....please contact me if you sell one!


#15

> It seems like the "new" HP12C calculators have a bad
keyboard.....sometimes when you press a key two or three
numbers appear on the display. Is it possible that the
quality of the newer productionseries became so much
lower???

Yes, it's possible. I bought a new, Made in
China HP-12C from a large department store (New In Box,
of course) and it doesn't even pass the built-in
keyboard self-test. You need to do it very carefully,
pressing each key with utmost precision, else it gives
an instant Error message. Since it's quite difficult to
be that precise for every and all keys, it usually takes you four to six tries before you succeed in passing the
test once. Trying to perform a lengthy calculation with
it or entering a program is an exercise in frustration:
you've got to do it several times till you get the correct
results or the correct keycodes stored in memory.
Actually, it's pretty unusable.

Further, the keys rattle if you shake a bit the
machine, and seem extremely cheap. The blue legends are
almost impossible to read, the manual is crap, and the
whole package seems a "Everything at $1" deal, but it
was prized as if it were any good, which it isn't, at all.

The only reason I kept it is to have a NIB
China 12C for my collection, else it would have been an
instant give-my-money-back. Further, I compared it to
a first generation, 1981 USA model, and believe me, it
was a very, *very* depressing experience.


#16

"My" HP12C model was made in China as well and I gave it back to the store and I luckily got my money back.
It had the same symptomes as you've been describing!!!.....well, the only solution seems to be a secondhandmodel......
Thanks for your feedback!


#17

Hi,

take care not to buy an Indonesian model.

I have a NIB 12C made in Indonesia,
and the printing of the key labels disqualifies it,
at least for the price I paid.

In my experience, models from
U.S. , Singapore, Brazil, and Malaysia are worth their price.

I'd try to catch a U.S. model, or at least one from Singapore;-)

There are sellers on eBay which even offer 'new old stock'
voyager calcs.

Regards,

Raymond


#18

Is this the way HP are going to kill off the HP12C? i.e. make it such poor quality that sales drop and then the top bods have an excuse to stop making it?

It would seen very short sighted of HP to tarnish their name by making such a poor quality calculator that tends to get sold into the professional end of the market. Does anyone at HQ know about this problem? (and if they did would they care?)

Did't someone at ACO say that HP spent a shed load of money re-engineering the HP12C. This didn't seem to extent to the keyboard!

(PS it looks like the keyboard test is still in the embeded software but the manufacturer is not using it to check the keyboard!)


#19

> Is this the way HP are going to kill off the HP12C? i.e. make it such poor quality that sales drop and then the top bods have an excuse to stop making it?

Probably. They (HP) still have no clue how to market calculators. It probably goes as: "Hey, we have these nice quality calculators, let's re-engineer them and beat our competitors in their own market. Ditch RPN and lower the quality until they are as crappy or worse than the calculators made by our competitors."

> It would seen very short sighted of HP to tarnish their name by making such a poor quality calculator that tends to get sold into the professional end of the market. Does anyone at HQ know about this problem? (and if they did would they care?)

HP is not HP anymore. They make PCs and PC accessories. PCs are cheap crap. It is this way because most people want to buy cheap things. Most people do not care about quality, or do not understand that they get what they pay for.

Ever looked at a normal computer keyboard? They used to cost a lot more money and most were of good quality. Enter the PC market and you can hardly buy a good quality keyboard anymore...

> Did't someone at ACO say that HP spent a shed load of money re-engineering the HP12C. This didn't seem to extent to the keyboard!

Yes, it was said that ACO re-engineered the HP12C. Why do you mean it did not extent to the keyboard? It is different, right?

#20

I bought one of the new model HP12C's to try out. It has "made in China". I held it up and shook it and the keys don't rattle. I press [on] & [] and then did the keyboard test. [ 12 ]. No problem. Did it again. [ 12 ]. No problem. It looks good. I entered some calculations and it worked fine. Pressed [on] & [x]. [running]. Correct results. No problem.

This is a new model with the single lithium cell. I bought some additional units after executing the successful test listed above. Are the ones you guys bought out of the boxes or the plastic cartons? I didn't use it for a week or two. I just tested it straight out of the carton as some of you had said you did. Maybe some came from a bad production run, or before they squared things away?


#21

Actually, the Made in China HP 10BII's are built pretty well, unlike the HP 12C's. It doesn't have the "feel" of the voyager, but keys work and feel crisp, design is attractive, and the display is excellent.

#22

the one I've bought was in a box!....

#23

The one thing I did forget to mention is the keys. They do not feel like solid plastic. They even have a certain sound when rubbed against gently like they are hollow, and the plastic feels as if you could press the keys hard and crush them. I haven't tried it, YET!

I am not trying to sound contradictory, to what any of you wrote. The HP12C isn't like the older voyager machines, and the same quality isn't there, no doubt. They aren't priced at $135 to $150 either. Of course that price was 1982 prices. It is 20 years latter. These should be priced at $400 or more if inflation was exacting. And if people were paying $400 for an HP12C today, I bet HP would have some of the most rock solid Voyager machines you have ever seen. There would be HP11C's, and HP15C's and HP16C's that would be beautiful and so full of features you couldn't believe it. Factories would be opened in 8 to 10 countries just to keep up with that countries demand. Sounded good didn't it. But you know good and well that isn't true. It would be the HP13C. Ever wonder why they skipped that number. If they made an HP13C and it sold for $500, and has interchangeable keys and modules pacs for the other voyager series calculators would you buy one? If so, so as much for what people think about 13 being unlucky.

But the one thing every calculator vendor has in common is this.
A) Disposable calculators that last a year or two if lucky for a few dollars.
B) Quality calculators for a very high price, that look and feel good, and can be repaired. But
where are they?

The main reason HP and other companies are moving away from quality (as would be definied by Voyager series machines of the old)is because most people don't want quality. They won't pay for it. They just want a bargain. They don't understand the word "Quality" anymore. Please don't be one of these people that tries to sound smart and psycho analyze what I wrote and tell me what is right or wrong and which part you agree with and which part you don't agree with. I don't care. Companies build what you pay for, in the U.S. or any other country on this planet. The days of statistics are going out the door. If it sales at x dollars you can bet it will be manufactured somewhere and sold at x dollars while people will pay x dollars. Y? When the price drops to y dollars they stop production and or sell the rights to the product to clear inventory. Thats Y.

China imports fair to good quality machines at a very low price. They do produce some high end quality for a medium price. End of comments. I live here (U.S.). I know what happened to our tax dollars and American jobs, as well as those in other countries we were and are in alliance with. While some public leaders were handing our economy (technology we paid for as tax payers) and national defense information (we also paid for as tax payers and with American lives, as well as other NATO members lives) to those countries, the same idiots that wanted to keep them in office did. Now it is time to reap the wind of wrath. The U.S. is. What a lot of people don't and didn't understand is this. When the U.S. is brought down, so are most of you no matter where you are. It might be more apparent today than 6 months ago and much more than 10 years ago. Most countries but especially NATO depend on each other more than people realize. Why am I saying this? How many HP companies have shut down in those nations in the last 10 years and at what cost in jobs? How many of those countries had companies in the U.S. that have been shut down at what cost in jobs also. HP is just one company that is modeled like all the rest.


#24

The truth is, the market for programmable calculators is getting smaller. Who needs it when computers can do a lot more, display more information, store more information, print beautiful color graphs, etc.? Calculators have become "convenience" items for mostly simple calculations, rather than necessities for professionals.


#25

you may be right for most cases. i think that the rest of the time it depends on what you do, if it is amenable to (canned) programed solutions, or how close to a desk you do it. there is a market for high quality tools in all lines of work. lamentably ours may be software on a pda in the not too distant future. i try not to drop my 41 any more.


#26

Some time ago I used a Windows CE app called BizCalc (from OddyseySoftware, I think), it was a nice HP12C style calculator. I also tried some RPN calculator apps, but have not found one that pleases me enough for buying and adopting (I am a HP41/HP42S worshipping follower). MathUPro seems to be nice, but just for Palms, not WinCE (I know some people here will be glad it is not for a MS platform).

Apart for the physical keys and battery life, the PDA way is acceptable, given HP impotence to continue with its once brilliant calculator product line.

I would ask again to HP why they don't offer a calculator application like the one in the HP LX100 / 200 as a software package for PDAs (even for HP PDAs)...


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