Iphone RPN



#33

I just came across a nice little RPN calculator for the iphone or ipod touch. It's sort of a 11C-12C hybrid. But I don't know how much it is after the 15 day trial.

Link


CHUCK


#34

Or for free:

http://code.google.com/p/hpcalc-iphone/


#35

Those are the ones I used when my ipod was a Jailbreak. Unfortunately, we'll have to wait until June when Apple decides to make applications available for all iphones and touch's.


#36

What's wrong with Jailbreaking iPhone/ipod touch? To me the only problem with running calc emulators (I use HP-15 and HP-12) is the small "keyboard", still usable though. I'm looking forward for a port of the Free42 for ipod touch; I find the Free42 better than the original calc in many aspects, program storage, alpha input, no memory restrictions, printer output, too bad we can't have a real calculator with these capabilities.

Cheers

Reth

btw MathU has better "keyboard" - keys are bigger plus it changes the form factor; I'd like to see that in Free42 implementation. Just dreaming ;)


#37

I'm looking forward for a port of the Free42 for ipod touch

I have heard from one person working on an iPhone port; I helped him with some initial GUI questions. However, I have not heard from him in several weeks and also managed to lose his email address.


If I don't hear from him soon, I'll get started on my own iPhone port; it would be cool if I could submit it for the Apple Design Awards, although chances of making the May 12th deadline look slim and chances of a retro calculator simulator winning anything look even slimmer. ;-)

(Note: As far as I know, the iPod Touch is basically an iPhone without the phone part, and in terms of the software environment, they are pretty much identical -- so they should run the same software, and porting Free42 to the iPhone, or to the iPod Touch, is really one and the same thing.)

MathU has better "keyboard" - keys are bigger plus it changes the form factor; I'd like to see that in Free42 implementation. Just dreaming ;)

No need to limit yourself to dreaming -- all existing versions of Free42, except for the Mac OS Dashboard version, support custom skins. All it takes is patience and Paint...


Paul Brogger's suggestion of switching skins when the shift key is pressed could also be implemented in Free42. I'm not a big fan of the idea myself; I prefer being able to see the shifted keycaps even when shift is not held down. This helps when typing quickly; you can see where your fingers should go ahead of time. But, still, it could be done and probably wouldn't even be very difficult.

- Thomas

Edited: 5 May 2008, 11:13 p.m.


#38

Hi Thomas, first of all I'd like to thank you big time for your brilliant work, absolutely impressive! And please do port your emulator for the iphone/ipod touch (they are identical in that respect as you guessed). I just can't wait to see how your beautiful implementation of one of the greatest calculators ever runs on one of the greatest contemporary platforms. Be good and keep up the good work,
cheers,
reth


#39

Hi Reth,

I'm looking forward to doing an iPhone / iPod Touch version of Free42, but first I have to get the software development environment up and running. The good folks at Apple decided, in their boundless wisdom, that the iPhone Software Development Kit shall only run under Mac OS X, and that poses a bit of a challenge since I neither own a Macintosh nor have any great desire to get one. But, I heard that it is possible to get Mac OS X to run under VMware, so I am hopeful I will be able to get to work without having to depend on the Macs at the office. ;-)


Once I have a usable Free42 port, rest assured I will announce it on the Free42 page at sourceforge, and also on this forum.

- Thomas

Edited: 15 May 2008, 2:45 a.m.


#40

Thanks a lot, Thomas, that will be great and I bet many others here will be extremely happy too! Please keep up your excellent work!

Best regards,

Reth

#41

Please include printer support and the ability to load programs. If I could load programs via HTTP that would be very nice. E.g. open up iphone browser go to some web site, download coolprog.42s, .42s is registered as Free42 data, Free42 starts up loads file, if already started, just loads file.

As for printer output, I would like options for text and png/gif/jpg (something graphical). And the option to have it sent to email app as open unsend email. Then I can just fill out the rest of the email and send.

Thanks.

P.S. You have mail.

#42

Quote:
But, I heard that it is possible to get Mac OS X to run under VMware, so I am hopeful I will be able to get to work without having to depend on the Macs at the office.

yes, indeed, so they say! I just stumbled on a Wikipedia article to that very effect. The installation process does look a little complex and fussy though. That said, it would be really cool to run Mac OS on a windows machine, even though I think VMWare Server itself is pretty expensive.

Les


#43

Quote:
I think VMWare Server itself is pretty expensive.

VMware Server is free. VMware ESX and Workstation are not.
#44

Quote:
I have heard from one person working on an iPhone port; I helped him with some initial GUI questions. However, I have not heard from him in several weeks and also managed to lose his email address.

Hey - that's me!

You have mail.

My progress on Free42 for iPhone is minimal and stagnant. Since I'm simply too busy, I'd love to see the program written by the original author himself. Go for it - I'll send you the graphics we've done, which are in a much better shape than my code. :-)

#45

I have an iPod touch (iPhone not available in Canada), and I must admit it never dawned on me that it would be a good environment for an emulator. When Apple offered the software upgrade a few months ago I turned it down since I used the device for audio and video and less for WiFi web access, so none of the extra programs interested me much.

Can someone give me a crash course on downloading and installing simulators/emulators on this thing? And what is Jailbreaking and why can one no longer do it till June?

Les


#46

Quote:
And what is Jailbreaking and why can one no longer do it till June?

"Jailbreaking" your iPhone/iPod allows you to run unauthorized 3rd party applications.

Staring in June Apple authorized developers will be able to publish (for free or fee) Apple authorized 3rd party applications to the tightly controlled Apple app store (think iTunes for Apps). For many their favorite freeware applications will be available for download without the need to "jailbreak" their device.

Of course, I expect that a number of individuals will still develop applications unauthorized by Apple requiring a "jailbreak" to run.


#47

Thanks, the Jailbreaking process looks straightforward enough.

Unfortunately, it looks like Tom Fors suite of Voyageur emulators is specific to the iPhone.

If there are good hp simulators/emulators out there that work on a jailbroken iPod touch 1.1.2, I would love to know about them.

Les

#48

This looks like it was brought to us by the same fellow who does MathU and MathUPro for the Palm, the latter of which is the RPN calculator I use when I don't have a real one handy. If the Palm version is any indicator, this will be a solid, well-thought-out, product.

Stefan

PS. I have no affiliation with Creative Creek (makers of the above products), other than as a happy user of the Palm version.

#49

That's looking like good ol' MathU now on the iPhone. And it won't cost a fortune, see *here*. Just the iPhone is a bit expensive...

Oops, Stefan was faster than me :)

Edited: 25 Apr 2008, 4:51 p.m.

#50

Does anyone else question the wisdom of simulating a hardware keyboard on a touchscreen device? It seems one is presenting in a different medium, and the UI's design should reflect that.

For example, instead of cluttering the screen with all that pseudo-key graphical fluff, and trying to legibly paint shifted functions on the "shaded, slanted fronts" of those simulated keys, how about having the 2nd function keypresses dynamically swap new legends onto all the rest of the key tops? (The GUI is, of course, vastly more flexible and responsive than a plastics fabrication process.)

Why, if I had any up-to-date programming skill, I'd certainly show 'em how it should be done! (I know: all talk, no action . . .)


#51

Paul you may be all talk but it is good talk and good ideas!

#52

The whole idea of graphical user interfaces seems to be to simulate something physical with which the user is familiar (e.g. consider the "desktop" metaphor of most windowing systems).

Besides, the simulated calculator has two shift keys. If the shifted functions aren't shown until you press one, then how do you know which shift key to press?

Stefan


#53

Quote:
the simulated calculator has two shift keys. If the shifted functions aren't shown until you press one, then how do you know which shift key to press?

Good point, Stefan. Paul & Bill, this applies to one shift key, too.
#54

With regard to the "whole idea" being to simulate something physical:
That is true for users who have a heritage of using physical devices (as wonderfully tactile as some of them are/were) and are looking for a convenient transition to simulated substitutes. Play a few really imaginative video games (not Grand Theft Auto) and you'll see that there need be little or none of "something physical" being simulated at all.

I'm not advocating the outright abandonment of graphically simulated H-P-style keyboards, nor am I in any position to criticize the folks who are doing such fine jobs of implementing them. I'd just like to see some alternative "skins" available, with some more imaginative -- even experimental -- uses of the medium on exhibit. Even those faithful realizations of venerable H-P models would benefit from some up-to-date re-engineering of their function selection interface, quite apart from their underlying behaviors.

In fact, the kind of energy that many of us devote (all-but-fruitlessly, I might add) to imagining and discussing the details of our latest dreamed-of physical device from H-P, might better be devoted to actually implementing fabulous new skins on top of trusted, proven functionality. (Are there any open-source candidates for a "calculator construction kit"? I might buy the right target device if I knew I could put my Java -- or whatever -- skills to work making it into an up-to-date, personalized, programmable RPN calculator.)

With regard to multiple shift keys:
Press one and see what functions display. Press the other. Press the same one a second time to restore the previous view.

It's not like you're actually going to "do" anything irreversible to the state of your calculation (to the stack or to your equation) by pressing a shift key. It's the subsequent keypress that selects an actual function or menu or whatever.


Edited: 28 Apr 2008, 11:56 a.m.


#55

The 50G has the soft keys that may be programmed for labels by one expert enough to do it. That is potentially a start to an open base that may be adapted to ones particular needs. I met a man going around collecting HP41 calculators to enter a shop estimate formula for his salesman. If the 50G was less arcane it would have a place in this market to be adaptable to business needs. It could be a "peoples" calculator if it were to lose it's complexity and gain flexibility. Sam


#56

Postscript, It occured to me that even the internal program can be changed remotely for even greater flexibility. Sam

#57

Thanks for that.

I was thinking in terms of a flexible, user-configurable front end on some Palm or iPhone or whatever version of, say, the 15C or 42s.

Failing that, to be able to program the GUI front-end on top of a known "calculator kernel" would be fun for some of us. (At least, for one of us.)

#58

AFAIK such a calculator surface construction kit is available already with Thomas' fabulous Free42. IIRC at least you should be able to map the function set of the 42S to any set of rectangular areas (i.e. "keys") you want. This will cover a large fraction of the target set of any future calculator you may wish. If I had the time and brains ;) to dig through the mechanics, I'd try to get a simulator running on that basis.

Quote:
With regard to multiple shift keys:
Press one and see what functions display. Press the other. Press the same one a second time to restore the previous view.

Hmmmh, so instead of seeing the shifted functions immediately you have to press a key to be allowed to see them? That's progress?? Presumably I've missed a point... ;)

#59

With Windows menus, for each new application I don't have all the options memorized at first. I poke around until I find what's useful, then navigating the menus becomes second nature for oft-used functions.

I would assume that a hunt & find approach would suffice until one decided to create custom menus or assign softkeys, or whatever.

And hey! If it turns out that such an arrangement isn't that convenient for someone, then s/he tries something else. Much more flexible than a physical device. In fact, the calculator could keep count of which features are used most often, as a list of suggestions for reassignment.

Of course, who wouldn't enjoy similar configurability (not a real word, I guess) in a "real" calculator? How about a little back-lit color LCD on the top and front face of each key, and a back-lighted LCD faceplate (with holes for those configurable keys)? Every primary and shifted function could be reassigned to fit the user's whim. (How much would that cost?)


#60

We had this discussion about configurable keys many moons ago already. I do not want to repeat it. This is, of course, a weak argument, but at least one.

With regard to flexibility, you are right for sure. I'm not convinced, however, "a hunt & find approach" is appropriate for a serious calculator. Nevertheless, are you going to try with Free42?

#61

Quote:
With Windows menus, for each new application I don't have all the options memorized at first. I poke around until I find what's useful, then navigating the menus becomes second nature for oft-used functions.

But the menus at least have helpful headings (File, Edit, View, Help, etc.), which give you some idea of which function you'll find under which menu. The equivalent in a calculator would be to have maybe half a dozen shift keys with names like Trig, Logs, Finance,
etc., and when you press one, some other set of keys gets redefined. In fact, the built in calculator in PalmOS 5 works like that.

Quote:
How about a little back-lit color LCD on the top and front face of each key, and a back-lighted LCD faceplate (with holes for those configurable keys)? Every primary and shifted function could be reassigned to fit the user's whim. (How much would that cost?)

About as much as a Palm Tungsten E2 and a copy of MathU Pro. When you redefine keys in that program, the key labels change (well, only for shifted keys; the main function of each key can't have its label changed).

Stefan


#62

Quote:
... a copy of MathU Pro. When you redefine keys in that program, the key labels change (well, only for shifted keys; the main function of each key can't have its label changed).

MathU Pro allows redefining primary functions, too. But you shall think about the locations where it makes sense.
#63

Then there is the original Calculator Construction Kit.

Well for those of us with old Macs capable of running it.


- Pauli

#64

I'll try to remember that one.

Given sufficent space I think I'd prefer to make the shifted labels ckickable - that way you don't even need to press the shift key at all...

Mike T.


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