The following warnings occurred:
Warning [2] Undefined array key 12616 - Line: 275 - File: inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.14 (Linux)
File Line Function
/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 275 errorHandler->error_callback
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 23 ThreadedMode::showthread_threaded
/inc/class_plugins.php 142 threaded_mode_showthread_threaded
/showthread.php 918 pluginSystem->run_hooks
Warning [2] Undefined array key 12618 - Line: 275 - File: inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.14 (Linux)
File Line Function
/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 275 errorHandler->error_callback
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 23 ThreadedMode::showthread_threaded
/inc/class_plugins.php 142 threaded_mode_showthread_threaded
/showthread.php 918 pluginSystem->run_hooks
Warning [2] Undefined array key 12619 - Line: 275 - File: inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.14 (Linux)
File Line Function
/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 275 errorHandler->error_callback
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 23 ThreadedMode::showthread_threaded
/inc/class_plugins.php 142 threaded_mode_showthread_threaded
/showthread.php 918 pluginSystem->run_hooks
Warning [2] Undefined array key 12620 - Line: 275 - File: inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.14 (Linux)
File Line Function
/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 275 errorHandler->error_callback
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 23 ThreadedMode::showthread_threaded
/inc/class_plugins.php 142 threaded_mode_showthread_threaded
/showthread.php 918 pluginSystem->run_hooks
Warning [2] Undefined array key 12625 - Line: 275 - File: inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.14 (Linux)
File Line Function
/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 275 errorHandler->error_callback
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 23 ThreadedMode::showthread_threaded
/inc/class_plugins.php 142 threaded_mode_showthread_threaded
/showthread.php 918 pluginSystem->run_hooks
Warning [2] Undefined array key 12627 - Line: 275 - File: inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.14 (Linux)
File Line Function
/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 275 errorHandler->error_callback
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 23 ThreadedMode::showthread_threaded
/inc/class_plugins.php 142 threaded_mode_showthread_threaded
/showthread.php 918 pluginSystem->run_hooks
Warning [2] Undefined array key 12628 - Line: 275 - File: inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.14 (Linux)
File Line Function
/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 275 errorHandler->error_callback
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 23 ThreadedMode::showthread_threaded
/inc/class_plugins.php 142 threaded_mode_showthread_threaded
/showthread.php 918 pluginSystem->run_hooks
Warning [2] Undefined array key 12634 - Line: 275 - File: inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.14 (Linux)
File Line Function
/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 275 errorHandler->error_callback
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 23 ThreadedMode::showthread_threaded
/inc/class_plugins.php 142 threaded_mode_showthread_threaded
/showthread.php 918 pluginSystem->run_hooks
Warning [2] Undefined array key 12638 - Line: 275 - File: inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.14 (Linux)
File Line Function
/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 275 errorHandler->error_callback
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 23 ThreadedMode::showthread_threaded
/inc/class_plugins.php 142 threaded_mode_showthread_threaded
/showthread.php 918 pluginSystem->run_hooks
Warning [2] Undefined array key 12639 - Line: 275 - File: inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.14 (Linux)
File Line Function
/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 275 errorHandler->error_callback
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 23 ThreadedMode::showthread_threaded
/inc/class_plugins.php 142 threaded_mode_showthread_threaded
/showthread.php 918 pluginSystem->run_hooks
Warning [2] Undefined array key 12642 - Line: 275 - File: inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.14 (Linux)
File Line Function
/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 275 errorHandler->error_callback
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 23 ThreadedMode::showthread_threaded
/inc/class_plugins.php 142 threaded_mode_showthread_threaded
/showthread.php 918 pluginSystem->run_hooks
Warning [2] Undefined array key 12648 - Line: 275 - File: inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.14 (Linux)
File Line Function
/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 275 errorHandler->error_callback
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 23 ThreadedMode::showthread_threaded
/inc/class_plugins.php 142 threaded_mode_showthread_threaded
/showthread.php 918 pluginSystem->run_hooks
Warning [2] Undefined array key 12659 - Line: 275 - File: inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.14 (Linux)
File Line Function
/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 275 errorHandler->error_callback
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 23 ThreadedMode::showthread_threaded
/inc/class_plugins.php 142 threaded_mode_showthread_threaded
/showthread.php 918 pluginSystem->run_hooks
Warning [2] Undefined array key 12664 - Line: 275 - File: inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.14 (Linux)
File Line Function
/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 275 errorHandler->error_callback
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 23 ThreadedMode::showthread_threaded
/inc/class_plugins.php 142 threaded_mode_showthread_threaded
/showthread.php 918 pluginSystem->run_hooks
Warning [2] Undefined array key 12670 - Line: 275 - File: inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.14 (Linux)
File Line Function
/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 275 errorHandler->error_callback
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 23 ThreadedMode::showthread_threaded
/inc/class_plugins.php 142 threaded_mode_showthread_threaded
/showthread.php 918 pluginSystem->run_hooks
Warning [2] Undefined array key 12672 - Line: 275 - File: inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.14 (Linux)
File Line Function
/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 275 errorHandler->error_callback
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 23 ThreadedMode::showthread_threaded
/inc/class_plugins.php 142 threaded_mode_showthread_threaded
/showthread.php 918 pluginSystem->run_hooks
Warning [2] Undefined array key 12681 - Line: 275 - File: inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.14 (Linux)
File Line Function
/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 275 errorHandler->error_callback
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 23 ThreadedMode::showthread_threaded
/inc/class_plugins.php 142 threaded_mode_showthread_threaded
/showthread.php 918 pluginSystem->run_hooks
Warning [2] Undefined array key 12682 - Line: 275 - File: inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.14 (Linux)
File Line Function
/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 275 errorHandler->error_callback
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 23 ThreadedMode::showthread_threaded
/inc/class_plugins.php 142 threaded_mode_showthread_threaded
/showthread.php 918 pluginSystem->run_hooks
Warning [2] Undefined array key 12686 - Line: 275 - File: inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.14 (Linux)
File Line Function
/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 275 errorHandler->error_callback
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 23 ThreadedMode::showthread_threaded
/inc/class_plugins.php 142 threaded_mode_showthread_threaded
/showthread.php 918 pluginSystem->run_hooks
Warning [2] Undefined array key 12704 - Line: 275 - File: inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.14 (Linux)
File Line Function
/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 275 errorHandler->error_callback
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 23 ThreadedMode::showthread_threaded
/inc/class_plugins.php 142 threaded_mode_showthread_threaded
/showthread.php 918 pluginSystem->run_hooks
Warning [2] Undefined variable $thread - Line: 295 - File: inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.14 (Linux)
File Line Function
/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 295 errorHandler->error_callback
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 23 ThreadedMode::showthread_threaded
/inc/class_plugins.php 142 threaded_mode_showthread_threaded
/showthread.php 918 pluginSystem->run_hooks
Warning [2] Trying to access array offset on value of type null - Line: 295 - File: inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.14 (Linux)
File Line Function
/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 295 errorHandler->error_callback
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 23 ThreadedMode::showthread_threaded
/inc/class_plugins.php 142 threaded_mode_showthread_threaded
/showthread.php 918 pluginSystem->run_hooks
Warning [2] Undefined variable $fid - Line: 295 - File: inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.14 (Linux)
File Line Function
/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 295 errorHandler->error_callback
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 23 ThreadedMode::showthread_threaded
/inc/class_plugins.php 142 threaded_mode_showthread_threaded
/showthread.php 918 pluginSystem->run_hooks
Warning [2] Undefined array key 12625 - Line: 331 - File: inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.14 (Linux)
File Line Function
/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 331 errorHandler->error_callback
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 332 ThreadedMode::buildtree
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 332 ThreadedMode::buildtree
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 304 ThreadedMode::buildtree
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 23 ThreadedMode::showthread_threaded
/inc/class_plugins.php 142 threaded_mode_showthread_threaded
/showthread.php 918 pluginSystem->run_hooks
Warning [2] Undefined array key 12619 - Line: 331 - File: inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.14 (Linux)
File Line Function
/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 331 errorHandler->error_callback
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 332 ThreadedMode::buildtree
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 304 ThreadedMode::buildtree
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 23 ThreadedMode::showthread_threaded
/inc/class_plugins.php 142 threaded_mode_showthread_threaded
/showthread.php 918 pluginSystem->run_hooks
Warning [2] Undefined array key 12620 - Line: 331 - File: inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.14 (Linux)
File Line Function
/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 331 errorHandler->error_callback
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 332 ThreadedMode::buildtree
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 304 ThreadedMode::buildtree
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 23 ThreadedMode::showthread_threaded
/inc/class_plugins.php 142 threaded_mode_showthread_threaded
/showthread.php 918 pluginSystem->run_hooks
Warning [2] Undefined array key 12627 - Line: 331 - File: inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.14 (Linux)
File Line Function
/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 331 errorHandler->error_callback
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 332 ThreadedMode::buildtree
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 304 ThreadedMode::buildtree
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 23 ThreadedMode::showthread_threaded
/inc/class_plugins.php 142 threaded_mode_showthread_threaded
/showthread.php 918 pluginSystem->run_hooks
Warning [2] Undefined array key 12686 - Line: 331 - File: inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.14 (Linux)
File Line Function
/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 331 errorHandler->error_callback
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 332 ThreadedMode::buildtree
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 332 ThreadedMode::buildtree
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 332 ThreadedMode::buildtree
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 332 ThreadedMode::buildtree
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 332 ThreadedMode::buildtree
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 304 ThreadedMode::buildtree
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 23 ThreadedMode::showthread_threaded
/inc/class_plugins.php 142 threaded_mode_showthread_threaded
/showthread.php 918 pluginSystem->run_hooks
Warning [2] Undefined array key 12704 - Line: 331 - File: inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.14 (Linux)
File Line Function
/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 331 errorHandler->error_callback
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 332 ThreadedMode::buildtree
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 332 ThreadedMode::buildtree
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 332 ThreadedMode::buildtree
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 332 ThreadedMode::buildtree
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 332 ThreadedMode::buildtree
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 304 ThreadedMode::buildtree
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 23 ThreadedMode::showthread_threaded
/inc/class_plugins.php 142 threaded_mode_showthread_threaded
/showthread.php 918 pluginSystem->run_hooks
Warning [2] Undefined array key 12682 - Line: 331 - File: inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.14 (Linux)
File Line Function
/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 331 errorHandler->error_callback
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 332 ThreadedMode::buildtree
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 332 ThreadedMode::buildtree
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 332 ThreadedMode::buildtree
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 304 ThreadedMode::buildtree
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 23 ThreadedMode::showthread_threaded
/inc/class_plugins.php 142 threaded_mode_showthread_threaded
/showthread.php 918 pluginSystem->run_hooks
Warning [2] Undefined array key 12648 - Line: 331 - File: inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.14 (Linux)
File Line Function
/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 331 errorHandler->error_callback
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 332 ThreadedMode::buildtree
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 332 ThreadedMode::buildtree
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 332 ThreadedMode::buildtree
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 304 ThreadedMode::buildtree
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 23 ThreadedMode::showthread_threaded
/inc/class_plugins.php 142 threaded_mode_showthread_threaded
/showthread.php 918 pluginSystem->run_hooks
Warning [2] Undefined array key 12659 - Line: 331 - File: inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.14 (Linux)
File Line Function
/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 331 errorHandler->error_callback
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 332 ThreadedMode::buildtree
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 304 ThreadedMode::buildtree
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 23 ThreadedMode::showthread_threaded
/inc/class_plugins.php 142 threaded_mode_showthread_threaded
/showthread.php 918 pluginSystem->run_hooks
Warning [2] Undefined array key 12664 - Line: 331 - File: inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.14 (Linux)
File Line Function
/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 331 errorHandler->error_callback
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 332 ThreadedMode::buildtree
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 304 ThreadedMode::buildtree
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 23 ThreadedMode::showthread_threaded
/inc/class_plugins.php 142 threaded_mode_showthread_threaded
/showthread.php 918 pluginSystem->run_hooks
Warning [2] Undefined variable $theme - Line: 3 - File: inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php(305) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.14 (Linux)
File Line Function
/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php(305) : eval()'d code 3 errorHandler->error_callback
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 305 eval
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 23 ThreadedMode::showthread_threaded
/inc/class_plugins.php 142 threaded_mode_showthread_threaded
/showthread.php 918 pluginSystem->run_hooks
Warning [2] Trying to access array offset on value of type null - Line: 3 - File: inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php(305) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.14 (Linux)
File Line Function
/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php(305) : eval()'d code 3 errorHandler->error_callback
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 305 eval
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 23 ThreadedMode::showthread_threaded
/inc/class_plugins.php 142 threaded_mode_showthread_threaded
/showthread.php 918 pluginSystem->run_hooks
Warning [2] Undefined variable $theme - Line: 3 - File: inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php(305) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.14 (Linux)
File Line Function
/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php(305) : eval()'d code 3 errorHandler->error_callback
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 305 eval
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 23 ThreadedMode::showthread_threaded
/inc/class_plugins.php 142 threaded_mode_showthread_threaded
/showthread.php 918 pluginSystem->run_hooks
Warning [2] Trying to access array offset on value of type null - Line: 3 - File: inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php(305) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.14 (Linux)
File Line Function
/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php(305) : eval()'d code 3 errorHandler->error_callback
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 305 eval
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 23 ThreadedMode::showthread_threaded
/inc/class_plugins.php 142 threaded_mode_showthread_threaded
/showthread.php 918 pluginSystem->run_hooks
Warning [2] Undefined variable $lang - Line: 5 - File: inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php(305) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.14 (Linux)
File Line Function
/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php(305) : eval()'d code 5 errorHandler->error_callback
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 305 eval
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 23 ThreadedMode::showthread_threaded
/inc/class_plugins.php 142 threaded_mode_showthread_threaded
/showthread.php 918 pluginSystem->run_hooks
Warning [2] Attempt to read property "messages_in_thread" on null - Line: 5 - File: inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php(305) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.14 (Linux)
File Line Function
/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php(305) : eval()'d code 5 errorHandler->error_callback
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 305 eval
/inc/plugins/threaded_mode.php 23 ThreadedMode::showthread_threaded
/inc/class_plugins.php 142 threaded_mode_showthread_threaded
/showthread.php 918 pluginSystem->run_hooks





Message from Iain Morris, President, EPS - Hewlett-Packard



#21

MESSAGE FROM IAIN MORRIS
President, HP Embedded and Personal Systems Group (EPS)

I wanted to take this opportunity to address several inquiries I have received from hp calculator fans regarding hp’s recent closure of the Australia Calculator Organization (ACO). First of all I’d like to begin by saying that HP is not exiting the calculator business! The decision to close our office in Melbourne is a separate issue and not related to our ability to deliver calculators worldwide. This was not an easy decision to make, but the continuing tough business climate has forced hp and many companies to make painful cost reductions and to consolidate efforts wherever possible.

HP will continue to deliver calculators and remains committed to the business. The business model, channel strategy and sales and marketing activities will remain the same.

I appreciate your feedback and loyalty to the hp brand, and look forward to your continued support.

Iain


#22

Is the Expander gonna see the light one day?


#23

> Is the Expander gonna see the light one day?

Oh, 5000 already has. You didn't get one?.....

Regards
Steen

#24

I appreciate the response however I still would like to find out if HP intends to *develop* calculators or is the intent merely to continue sales of existing designs? Many folks I know (engineers and students) would be thrilled at the possibility of seeing the next generation of quality calculators from HP in the tradition that made them famous to begin with.

Any comment here?

Thanks very much and best regards,
-Al Arduengo

#25

Well, you (HP) may be in the calculator PRODUCTION business, but you are not in the calculator business -- you just think you are. The HP49 calculator firmware is anything but complete. Because of its on going problems, I have not replaced my HP48GX with an HP49. With no chance of bug fixes to the current firmware, I will be switching to TI.


The best move HP could make would be to place the source and tools for the firmware in the public domain or under GPL.

#26

> I appreciate your feedback and loyalty to the hp brand, and look forward to your continued support.

Continued support? You must be joking Iain. That support is gone. I'm sure you have underestimated the importance of "HP calculator fans" as you put it. Many of the people you're talking about are EEs, scientists and teachers. You do not imagine this, as merely one point of media disaster, being unimportant?

What about the failing quality from Agilent? What about the Carly Fiorina judgement failure (media doom)? The Compaq panic act? Just a couple of recent mishaps from HP - the comapny was something 10-15 years ago, now you're merely Microsoft over again. You (or Carly) forget that we do have something to say. Sadly.

Let's guess to what dollar amount of electronics equipment I will decide for a company to buy throughout my career? USD 1,000,000? 10,000,000? 100,000,000? What about the poeple I convince not to go the HP way? The people they convince? This is not religion Iain, it's business. HP is doomed, and the contents of that final Compaq deal just proves it again.

Regards
Steen

#27

Ye were once my Chosen People,
blessed with Wisdom, true to The Course I set for you.

But ye have lost your way, and sinned repeatedly in my sight; worshipping false idols, casting your pearls before swine.

Ye have wasted all of that which was given you, and all of that which you'd built.

I cast my gaze in every direction, looking in vain for that which I'd nurtured.

But I search in vain, for it is not to be found.


#28

Now we all know:
GOD doesn't READ MoHPC
GOD doesn't TYPE
GOD doesn't CARE about users of old HP calcs.
GOD doesn't CARE about HP. Look at TI's Sales Figures

All of you PC people caused this. When you lost sight of a PC being a personal computer and tried to tie it to every company with software that is fixed by re-installing it every other day, you asked for this. Most of you claim to be engineers. Most of you looked at the short term dollar figures, and set in motion the destruction of individual
development environments, to include DEC, IBM, CDC, Burroughs, HoneyWell, and yes HP, or any company that made unique products that people really wanted for their real individual needs, and specific purposes. If you are end users and you bought HP PC's, and palm whatever products, and were told to lie to your managers that they are great and you knew they weren't you caused this. People wanted to stand together and destroy certain companies and their way of doing business. Now some of you are starting to understand why we mainframe programmers tried to warn everyone not to be so quick to destroy any individual types of environments. Because when you stop individual creativity, you really stop true progress. You all sang the same song of program portability, same type of platform, object oriented code, to replace real programming skills. So any idiot could write a program and claim to be a programmer. You have now succeeded. They run so well with a zillion insturction per second machine for about 1 to 2 hours, Maybe. What most of you never understood in your environments, is people like us had to start with machine language programming. A group of 10 or 15 real programmers in a company with a real architecture can write code for a company that will kick MicroSofts Windows ass. Anytime, anyday. And yes the code is specific to their business needs and would actually work. Now, instead of the promised cheap cost, the average excuse for a programmer is 5 times what it was just 5 years ago. They don't know anything about real programming. Why do you think people have such a desire to continue doing RPN code or any type of close to machine code as they can. So they can control what happens and aren't limited to the layers of crap to do a simiple thing. You can accomplish what you want in programming with about 20 instructions on a mainframe on the average. They can be subroutines. What has object oriented code got that that doesn't? Get real. What has really happened is the truth has finally caught up with all the lies. People now see the real end result. Yes you can send a file to someone else. You can run cartoons on your PC. But like we tried to explain to people before, once the newness wears off, no one is going to want to pay for the transport cost of the cartoons on the screens, or the people in their companies to send email to each other. Why? They will play, not work. Now most of you finally understand why we took the stance we did. Now it is time not to blame an individual such as the leader of HP. Stop the oneness madness, get off your butts, and start creating what MicroSoft doesn't want you to create. Any people want to revive CDC, Burroughs, Honeywell, no not the companies, just the drive. As an example, I have seen people write they should get the rights to the Voyager series machines and tool up. If you have that kind of money and drive, why don't you just do something yourself. Design a calculator that would be where the HP15C, HP16C and yes even the HP12C would be now had they not stopped improvements. I never used an HP until about 10 years ago. The HP71B is one of the easiest to program fast resolution machines for formulas, I have ever seen. Make one that is better, more up to date, and where BASIC should be if they didn't care so much about cartoons instead of problem resolution. The bottom line is this. If everyone is doing the same thing who will care?


#29

I think it’s a fine example of 20/20 hindsight to claim “mainframe programmers” had a clear sense of what the PC revolution meant, and that they were presciently warning everyone else of what was happening. In fact, we (I’m a mainframe programmer still) generally didn’t realize the significance of what was happening – some of us seized opportunities and many of us didn’t.

Longing for the good old days of the 24-line x 80-character green screen and eight-bit character sets is not being realistic. As much as for any other reason, OOP has blossomed in order to help developers manage the intrinsic complexity of programming to the vastly more complicted GUI (windows, icons, menus, color bit-mapped graphics) environments. The very scope of “the programming problem” has simply expanded by several orders of magnitude over the past 20 years (and that without regard to the vast proliferation of application domains in which computers may now be effectively put to use). If it were so easy to kick Microsoft’s butt, how come it doesn’t seem to be happening very often?


#30

Mr. Brogger,
Well first things first. What you wrote wasn't a comment about what I had written but a direct and deliberate and judgmental attack on me as a person, and as a professional as to whether or not I know what I am talking about or if you prefer proper English what I was speaking about.

Could you show me in my writing where I did a "RANT". Well how is this for a professional rant?

Quote extract from Mr. Brogger "I think it’s a fine example of 20/20 hindsight to claim “mainframe programmers” had a clear sense of what the PC revolution meant, and that they were presciently warning everyone else of what was happening."

It is what you think and nothing more. You shouldn't be so quick to just put your thoughts in writing. It proves you didn't even understand what I wrote. Is this the statement I made you are alluding to?

Quote from doug "Now some of you are starting to understand why we mainframe programmers tried to warn everyone not to be so quick to destroy any individual types of environments."

Quote extract from Mr. Brogger "In fact, we (I’m a mainframe programmer still) generally didn’t realize the significance of what was happening – some of us seized opportunities and many of us didn’t."

I doubt you are now or have ever been a real mainframe programmer. I doubt you even know what that statement means. If you have written pseudo code on a mainframe computer system, and even used the editor on the mainframe and that is the basis of you calling yourself a mainframe programmer, YOU AREN'T! Of all the people that have ever claimed to be a mainframe programmer only about 2 to 3 percent are or ever was. A real mainframe programmer wouldn't dare write the dribble you have.

Quote extract from Mr. Brogger "Longing for the good old days of the 24-line x 80-character green screen and eight-bit character sets is not being realistic."

First of all that is a cheap shot, to make yourself appear and feel superior. Technically speaking and that is what a real programmer should be capable of and able to do, you simply don't know what you are talking about. What do you mean by putting "and eight-bit character sets" with the other part of the statement? Since you made such an impertinent statement and implied that is what I think, it is time for me to point out what you don't know. You brought the subject up, so, do you even know the difference in a DS and a CS? What book did you look the information on a green screen 24x80 up in or what class did you attend that they happened to mention it in? Didn't they mention 27x132, 3279, or even EDS. What color were the DEC, Burroughs and any other vendors screens at that time? How many bits do you think it takes to define a character set?

Quote extract from Mr. Brogger "As much as for any other reason, OOP has blossomed in order to help developers manage the intrinsic complexity of programming to the vastly more complicted GUI (windows, icons, menus, color bit-mapped graphics) environments. "

It was designed to allow people to learn to write pseudo-code. Not learn or ever become a real programmer. C, C++ is designed to used in place of real code, when a repetitive programming design can use it. But one thing none of these people seem to understand, is that all hardware processor design has basically stopped. They only design to accommodate badly designed code. They use to design a processor and system and you were allowed to design new and fresh code. C, C++, is perfect for embedded applications. Not business or real science. Support code to real science YES. Support code to real business, NO! Anyone that believes that any one software or hardware architecture is perfect for every environment is an IDIOT.

Quote extract from Mr. Brogger "The very scope of “the programming problem” has simply expanded by several orders of magnitude over the past 20 years (and that without regard to the vast proliferation of application domains in which computers may now be effectively put to use)."

What does this mean? What programming problem? The only ones I see use this type of terminology are offering excuses to why they can't resolve a problem instead of a programmed resolution. Just re-install it and it will work. The original reason for machines and programming was to allow the flexibility of programmed resolutions. A problem was defined and a programmed resolution was written. Not all the whimpering and whining that it is to hard to learn. BUNK. They are just lazy. People want to be called programmers that have never learned enough to be called programmers.

What application domains? INTEL, or pseudo INTEL such as AMD? Wow bunch of domains. Or is that an attempt to be smart. Mainframe domains?, or Functional domains?, or just what I believe you meant, different companies that are using the same INTEL architecture.

Quote extract from Mr. Brogger "If it were so easy to kick Microsoft’s butt, how come it doesn’t seem to be happening very often?"

Good question. How did they get such a hold on the government, schools, companies, and even the computer manufacturer. I tried to order a PC without any software and they told me I couldn't. After a lot of fights and arguments they said they would. I asked how much they would reduce the cost by not including the software and they said none. They said they still had to charge me the same price for the machine anyway. When I asked a company to sell me a computer without the applications they said they would have to charge me for them anyway. They said it isn't that much. Well a dollar is a dollar. If I don't want them and don't need them why do I or anyone else have to pay anything for them? They are not free. They pay a fee for every piece of software on every machine to the vendors.

Hand me millions of dollars for software that doesn't work more than a few hours at a time and tell me it is great and I am great and I can hire the 14 other people that will agree with me, and I will. My approach was going to be on a mainframe. Oh yeah, there will probably be around 15 million applicants. It would take more time to interview than actually design and write superior code. Programming is simple. Trying to use poorly designed compiled code, or operating system interfaces isn't. You ever heard the term "RACKET"?

I am willing to prove on this Open Forum what I stated at any time. Are you?

doug


#31

Doug:

While I am not any more than a mere visitor here, I would like to say I am surprised by the tone and style of your answer to Mr. Brogger posting.

Let me just say that I may symphatize with some of the ideas you express in your first posting, albeit my peronal opinion it is not the same in all points. You may think I am wrong, no problem, it's just your view. But what I cannot frankly understand is the angry tone and absolute definitions about many issues that are complex in nature and also time-and location-dependent, quite enough to resist such binary classifications.

You challenge someone to answer in this open forum. This forum is about HP Calculators made from 1968 to 1986, as the curator states; and while we can extend the reach to current models and other issues, I think it is not the place for the discussion you are asking for.

We can criticize and regret HP current policy about calculators, we can criticize computer languages and software houses, specially very big ones, but we should try not to think any of us is perfectly right all the time.

Mr. Brogger doesn't need me or anyone to help him to state his ideas, which are only his own. But let me say he is a regular contributor here, someone who helped many others to solve the problems or questions posted here. I don't think he deserves the kind of judgement you are posting here.

Let me apologize for my less than perfect English (just in case any term is misused by me), but I understand a "rant" is just a long posting in which someone let his/her ideas flow more or less freely, perhaps passionately. If it is a offensive term, please let us know; so not to make a wrong use of it.

While I have not the time to analyze all the arguments in a detailed manner, I think that the discussion about character sets (ASCII, EBCDIC, and extended ASCII for other alphabets), monochrome CRTS (I had also used a color 3279),
and Fortran (my first computer language with punched cards), etc; is a discussion about the democratization of IT (well way off this forum). These phenomena could had happened in better ways, but the PCs (in general), the popular Internet services, and many other "upsides" are what allow us to communicate now and discuss here.

Please receive my kind regards.

#32

I liked your initial rant. I don't call it rant to insult you but it certainly looked like a rant to me. Before I read it I suspected that it was a rant simply due to the lack of paragraph breaks. As I read it, I didn't know whether I should classify myself as one of "we mainframe programmers" or one of "you PC people" since I've been both. Most of the "PC people" I work with started on mainframes. The occasional rant is fine in my opinion. I've been known to produce anti-GUI, anti-MS, and anti-OOP rants myself on occasion.

I didn't agree with much of what you said but I still liked your call to action at the end.

However, your response to Paul was out of line. It was also humorous and ironic if you know how experienced and helpful Paul is but the bottom line is that we don't need personal insults here. Please tone it down. If you want an in-depth discussion of your favorite programming languages, terminals and character sets, that's fine. It's a little off-topic but I don't think anyone will complain.

PS: my mom emailed me three cartoons this morning.

PPS: Just to show you that you have some common ground with "you PC people" my work includes: IBM 360/370 & Amdahl 470 in Assembly, FORTRAN, SNOBOL, APL and PL/1, B6700/7700 in ALGOL and ESPOL, CDC 6500 and DEC 10 in FORTRAN. Most of this was done on white 24x80 screens although I did eventually have green and then amber screens when they became fashionable in the 1980s. (What I really wanted was an Ann Arbor but never got one.)

#33

Well, the main point for me is not whether HP will keep on selling existing calculators (I already have a 49G ;-), but whether it will keep on improving them and developing new ones. I mean *real* calculators with a solid design, a calculator keyboard, and integrated software for serious scientific and engineering problem solving, not a toy PC running some RPN calculator emulation on top of it.

It is obvious that for this HP will need to do R&D, hence after the demise of ACO people start wondering whether HP is still willing to invest in this.

Anyway, if I extrapolate from my own experience, there must be a market for such calculator devices. Sure, nowadays workstations and even PCs play a major role in solving medium to large scale problems. But the different software tools available there do not integrate very well, quite in contrast to the comprehensive firmware of the RPL-based HP calculators.

At the very least, such a calculator can still be a very valuable "scratch pad" device on which you can develop and quickly test new solution ideas. To make this more practical, further development is needed, to improve processing speed, interfaces, the math software, programming tools, integration with the PC/workstation environment, etc.

I hope that the direction HP currently takes w.r.t. calculator development is not permanent. Ok, so TI has the educational market, but in the past that didn't prevent HP from making money with the finest calculators there are, to the benefit of us scientists and engineers. I don't think that demand for such devices will vanish in this high-tech world, on the contrary!

Maybe all this is being considered. But, given the recent developments, you cannot blame people if they have doubts concerning HP's future. Personally, I don't mind if you are selling stuff like PIMs (I never use them) or MP3 players (yeah, my kids like those), just don't forget that there also is a market for *real* professional equipment out there. Well, even if the next great calc has a PC under the hood, so what, if it has a good calculator keyboard, fast interfaces, RPN and the full scope of integrated math software, everything is fine.

Final question: What calcs am I going to buy for my kids when they're going to university? :)

- Albert


#34

All I need for business I am able to do (and program with PIPEING, REXX, FORTRAN) on a host. I even have programed a HP-41 emulator on VM/CMS ;-) But today I am forced to use Windows. And so I am not able any more to program my ideas. That's business.

The HP-41 once was the calculator that could have be my own design, it was "my 41". Today it is the 200LX. Up to today I could not find a real replacement of the 200LX. But I still hope it will be a machine from HP. But if someone else offers me something realy better, I'll take that, even if it's not from HP. That's business too.

Ciao.....Mike
(still collecting HP-calculators)


#35

Mike,
You mean you don't like zOS? CMS was ok. REXX wasn't to my liking as much as CLIST. Wrote both. Fortran is much better than C for most uses. Why not look at my responses to the persons entry called "GOD" above (no kidding)and to the so called mainframe programmer that responded to me with
"Dougs Rant".
doug

#36

Mr Morris,

The question is not whether HP will continue to sell calculators or not. It is whether HP will continue to be an innovator and a leader in the calculator market.

I am sure you have plenty of calculators left to sell. But will anyone want a product that no longer makes people say: "WOW! This is so cool I want to buy one!" Eliminating ACO tells the world that HP has decided to stop developing calculators, and that you intend to simply keep cranking out your old line until it atrophies.

Please tell us how HP will continue its product research and development in this field? Has a new department been created? Do you intend to continue to make advancement in this area, or is it a dead market as far as HP is concerned?

Dennis Straley


#37

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=m_QH7.220247%248x1.31303%40newsfeeds.bigpond.com&output=gplain

Copy and paste on your browser.


#38

Well after reading JY's comments I feel this could be the final nail in the coffin. ACO was actually a R+D centre not just an 'office'.

His comments about the Saturn processor going out of production and not being replaced is illuminating. No saturn processor = no HP 17,19,32,38,39,40,48,49 (have I missed any?). All the calculator code will have to be re-written for any replacement.

#39

Everybody claims TI has the education market, and so what? Let them have it. If HP had done things following the HP way through the last 10-15 years, it would have kept the professional market.

I'm only 26 but I grew up with HP calculators (hp67, 15c, 11c, 48sx, 48gx, 49g), I liked them and I still do, not because they are nice, or cheap, because they are reliable (or at least they used to be) and they do the job. A year ago I gave up my (48+128k card) because I needed more memory, but although the 49 is a good calculator, it's nothing but a second remake of a great machine (the 48S/SX).

A serious company, like HP was in the past, would have prooved the rest that good products still make good money. A professional like my father, who has relied on hp for almost 30 years, should not be disappointed by a new model (I'm talking about the 49g) to the point that after owning it he decides to stick to the previous one. I am an hp49 user because I have no other choice (and now 2 hp49s), but I'd gladly give it up and spend more money than you (hp managment and marketing people) expect me to if you offer me the quality and reliability HP once had.

I know this won't happen, I guess every hp user is aware of that. I bet hp people are probably laughing while they read this, if they do, because they must be very busy looking at their shares going up. I just needed to say it.

Good-bye hp....

#40

>I appreciate your feedback and loyalty to the hp brand,
>and look forward to your continued support.

>Iain

:( Marketing talk. You don't get it, do you? Why do you
think most people buy these calculators? - mindlessly buying
a "brand" for the simple sake that it's the HP brand?
Like a bunch of yuppies buying designer jeans??

I say _no_. They buy them because they are damn good, they
we designed by a group of like minded people, not a group
of marketing people. They were designed by people who used
the product, who enjoyed using the product. The were designed by people who (I believe) looked like they enjoyed
going to work everyday, who saw their job as _fun_ and
not simply something that paid the bills! This, I believe
was _once_ the culture within HP.

Nothing to do with brand.

I tell you, when TI comes out with something better than
the HP49, I'll swap "brands" quicker than you can blink!

*sigh* I don't think you'll ever understand. Have you
actually used something like the HP48, HP49? I mean,
really _used_ it?

me.

ps. I own 2 x HP48's and a HP49G. The last of the _great_
calculators...

:-(


Possibly Related Threads…
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Formatting the app view message with bullets (dots) Geoff Quickfall 4 1,710 10-14-2013, 06:22 PM
Last Post: Geoff Quickfall
  message for Andreas Grund Don Shepherd 0 771 09-26-2013, 03:56 AM
Last Post: Don Shepherd
  Message to Eric Rechlin Etienne Victoria 3 1,504 09-24-2013, 07:50 PM
Last Post: john mantooth
  Message to Luiz C. Viera Peter A. Gebhardt 2 1,146 02-27-2013, 09:27 AM
Last Post: Peter A. Gebhardt
  Error Message/Procedure HP-48SX with TDS Survey SX card bporter101 6 1,947 12-10-2012, 10:18 AM
Last Post: bporter101
  WP34s Stopwatch & statistics, message for Matthew Krotzer pascal_meheut 2 1,349 05-23-2012, 03:30 PM
Last Post: pascal_meheut
  A Guide for the Restoration of Hewlett Packard Calculators Jim Johnson 8 2,543 04-13-2012, 03:16 AM
Last Post: Geoff Quickfall
  Message to Katie Wasserman: thanks! Ignazio Cara (Italy) 2 1,196 12-20-2011, 05:04 AM
Last Post: Ignazio Cara (Italy)
  Facebook page created for Hewlett Packard Calculators Gene Wright 15 3,681 10-03-2011, 07:57 AM
Last Post: Andrés C. Rodríguez (Argentina)
  Whitman Is Named Hewlett-Packard Chief Peter Murphy (Livermore) 21 4,563 09-24-2011, 08:25 AM
Last Post: Eddie W. Shore

Forum Jump: