I so mad I could curse. Why it so hard to win anything on ebay? I want to buy a 71B, but I always get outbid.
Is there other place one can buy 71B or must one always get outbid on ebay and put up with it?
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HP 71B
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Post: #50
08-12-2007, 10:50 PM
 Try Craigslist: http://www.craigslist.org/about/cities.html I've had success finding used HP calculators at reasonable prices on Craigslist. Just last week, after reading a discussion on this forum, I purchased an HP-17b for $25. It was used but in excellent condition. Good Luck!!!
Post: #51
08-13-2007, 12:39 AM
> Why it so hard to win anything on ebay? HTH Raymond ▼
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Post: #53
08-13-2007, 03:11 AM
Hello!
Quote: Not minutes, but seconds... Or place a high enough bid early that nobody is going to outbid anyway, if you really desperately want the thing. Or bid on defective units that nobody else wants to buy and try to fix them (this is how I get most of my calculators). Greetings, Max
Post: #55
08-13-2007, 04:20 AM
Now that I've averted your attention .. Placing a bid at the last possible moment is called "sniping." It's the only way to avoid the stupid herd mentality created by the modified auction setup that practically guarantees you will lose or else pay too much - thereby losing as well. With sniping, you decide in advance what your maximum bid will be for the item in question. If the item is higher than that in the last minute of the auction you don't bid. Raising your bid at that point will pull you in to the eBay psychology that tends to favor sellers - who are the real customers of eBay. (What are buyers to eBay? Products.) Placing a snipe bid in time can be tricky. If you bid too soon, some fool is apt to outbid you. If you wait too long, your bid won't be accepted. In the former case, you might also be tempted to raise your bid again. To avoid all these problems, I use a sniping service. There are several of these. The one I use is eSnipe, though I don't know if they are better or worse than any of the many other such services. (Google is your friend.) eSnipe takes a small percentage of the final auction value, only if you win. If I see something I want on eBay, I decide what I want to pay, and place a bid with eSnipe. I then forget about the whole thing until I get an email telling me what the result was. This is usually a week or more later, and always comes as a slight surprise - often a pleasant one. Using eSnipe, I have never lost a bid because someone else sniped faster than I did. If I lose, it's because someone outbid me before the end of the auction. Nowadays I don't buy off eBay too often. When I was building my collection, I did a whole lot more, and eSnipe saved me lots of money toward the latter part of my spending spree. Best of luck.
Regards, ▼
Post: #56
08-13-2007, 06:23 AM
Hi!
Quote: If the auction we are talking about here is the one I think it is, then it was on eBay Germany. The rules of eBay Germany explicitly forbid the use of sniping services. Using them anyway means willingly breaking the contract between seller and bidder, thereby committing fraud, which is a criminal offence in this country. Maybe difficult to prove, but illegal anyway, therefore I don't do it and therefore I am one of the "fools" who place their high bids early. Greetings, Max ▼
Post: #57
08-13-2007, 07:25 AM
In my opinion, you aren't the fool. The guy that (inevitably) comes along and says "Well, gee, this guy must know something I don't!" and then places a bid $100.00 above your already high bid has a much better claim to the dishonor. In my experience, he or she is always out there, somewhere. It's cool if you are a seller. Regarding legality, sniping is not illegal in the U.S. I always log on to www.ebay.com, the U.S. eBay site. I therefore don't worry about the laws of other countries, at least insofar as the actual bidding goes, since the goods are being offered on a U.S. site to a U.S. customer. I admit that legal matters can get murky when dealing with varying national laws as regards commerce carried out on an international, yet casual basis, such as the Internet has allowed us to do on a large scale for the last 15 years or so. But I think I'm on pretty firm ground here.
Regards, ▼
Post: #58
08-14-2007, 08:28 PM
There's a difference between eBay German saying that you can't use a "sniping service", and saying that you can't snipe. If they say you can't use a sniping service, that doesn't have anything to do with whether you can place a bid yourself in the last few seconds of an auction. Presumably they're not going to claim that you can't snipe, since a snipe is just a perfectly normal bid. It also seems unlikely that they could ban using sniping software on your own computer, or that they would want to do so. If they really wanted to ban sniping entirely, they could just program their servers not to accept any bids in the last 30 seconds of the auction. Guess what would happen? I think they arguably have a legitimate basis for wanting to ban sniping services, as a security issue. They don't want you to give your eBay password to a third party. ▼
Post: #59
08-15-2007, 02:43 AM
Quote: What, the sniping would move to the last 60 seconds? 8)
Quote: Yes, it takes a certain puckering to give control of your bids to a third party. However, I haven't been abused by the service I chose. And I don't think that really would concern eBay too much unless it were a statistically significant problem. Even then, it would be self-correcting. People would learn. No, I think ebay's dislike of sniping is due to the fact that it short-circuits their quite clever and millennially profitable con game on the buying public. To judge by my experience, it tends to hold down final auction values, which hits their bottom line directly. I'm wracked with regret and sorrow over that. 8)
Regards,
Post: #60
08-13-2007, 10:35 AM
Given an auction format where the auction will end at some predetermined time, sniping is the only logical approach from the buyers' perspective. Bidding significantly before the end of the auction only broadcasts your interest to everyone else, with the effect of raising the price. Making sniping services illegal seems a bit childish -- I think if you really want to take the sting out of sniping, they should introduce a cooling-off period (dang, just like a "real" auction -- no way to patent *that* idea, I guess!), so that an auction would stay active for at least, say, 1 minute after the last bid. Me, when I go to eBay, I always snipe, and I always do it by hand. If nothing else, it's more exciting that way. :-) - Thomas ▼
Post: #61
08-13-2007, 11:11 AM
I'd like to add that placing an early bid (albeit for only the minimum bid above the current value) can help you win the item in the possible event of a tie between bidders. To break ties, eBay defaults to the bidder who first bid in that auction. Odds are slim it will do anything for you, but it's helped me win two auctions in the past, so if I really want the item I give it a small, early bid. (I'm also a sniper, but I do it by hand. I keep two windows of the auction open: one with my bid set up and ready to deploy, the other of the auction itself, to gauge the available time left.) -cam
Post: #62
08-13-2007, 07:09 AM
Hi,
I have to admit that I never used a sniping service.
But using a sniping service is one of the things which make the whole thing unfair,
I know there are various other unfair methods used on eBay,
'Sniping' an auction is not a problem in itself,
Raymond ▼
Post: #63
08-13-2007, 07:35 AM
Quote: Bidders who always top a reasonable bid because they think you must know something they don't take all the fun out of eBay, for me. And as far as "fair" goes, eBay is set up to favor the seller. The site charges sellers a significant amount for access to all those buyers - that's you and me most of the time. The higher the final value of the auction, the more eBay rakes in as a percentage. That means it is in eBay's interest to pump up the final values. The fact that you can't retract a bid, and that you are encouraged to bid high both explicitly and implicitly is a huge tilt of the playing field in the direction of the seller, and it is quite deliberate. Far from being unfair, sniping actually redresses the balance between buyer and seller, so that it becomes something closer to a real free market, instead of a phony one.
Regards, ▼
Post: #64
08-13-2007, 08:38 AM
Hi Howard,
Quote: Of course, this begs the question "What constitutes a reasonable bid?" I may think $100 is a reasonable bid for a particular item - you may think $25 is a reasonable bid and that my $100 is outrageous. It all depends on which side you are on. While there are times I may have Bidders Regret for not bidding high enough and losing out, I much prefer that to having Purchasers Regret for Bidding too high and actually winning an item I should have stayed away from.
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Post: #65
08-13-2007, 08:39 PM
The third or fourth 42S I bid for on eBay went for $450.00 when I had placed a "can't top it" bid of $440.00 or thereabouts. On the one hand, I was quite happy to have been outbid at that price, but on the other, I couldn't help but question the sanity of the bidder who won the auction. On reflection, I had to question my own sanity for placing such an outrageous bid, but that's the nature of the psychology on eBay. I eventually bought a very nice 42S for around $250.00 - which is more in line with the average on eBay - by sniping the auction. So when I call other bidders "idiots" for behavior like that, I'm doing so from the knowledge that I have been guilty of the same idiocy. I also know that the system eBay has set up tries to manipulate buyers into placing larger bids than they might otherwise. The thinking goes "If I bid higher than I know the item is worth, I'll probably win. And I probably won't have to pay my top price, anyway." My experience has shown me that this thinking is completely wrong on both counts. Sniping gets rid of the coercive psychology that tracking an auction on eBay engenders, and restores some sanity to the process.
Regards,
Post: #66
08-13-2007, 07:42 AM
Quote:Why? People tend to forget that the highest bid "wins" the auction, not the last one. It may be seen as unfair if you place your bid according to the current highest bid and not to what the object is worth in your opnion. But then, *that's* unfair to those who cannot afford the prices resulting from bid wars.
Edited: 13 Aug 2007, 7:43 a.m. ▼
Post: #67
08-13-2007, 12:19 PM
> Why?
However I still think using eBay sniper programs is simply cheating.
It's a difference if you place your bid personally,
Post: #68
08-13-2007, 07:43 AM
Hello!
Quote:
Good man :-) ! In this case you really deserve your prey. Occasionally, I have also done some 'manual sniping', but due to the nature of my job, I often can't be in front of the computer when the interesting auctions end. Which means that I have to bid early and see what comes out. Greetings, Max ▼
Post: #69
08-13-2007, 10:09 AM
I don't think this is the place nor that Ebay would listen to my idea but I think.. If at the end of auction time, ebay would allow anyone to submit a higher bid for the next 1 minute or so and then if there is a bid in that amount of time then the auction is extended for another minute. It would not make the end of auction very long but let the true highest bidder win and ebay collects a higher fee. ▼
Post: #71
08-13-2007, 10:46 AM
I also don't understand why eBay doesn't do that, since that is the norm with physical auctions. Also, if the value of an item is uncertain, then theory suggests that bidders overpay in auctions. Basically, if you assume that indivdual estimates of value are normally distributed, then the highest bidder will have exceeded the true value of the item. This is known as the Winner's Curse.
Post: #72
08-13-2007, 01:52 PM
I've "sniped" (only by hand) a few times, as a way of making it like a sealed bid. Usually I don't get what I bid for, which is fine-- I made my decision and bid as much as it was worth to me, and I wasn't going to reconsider and bid more even if someone else outbid me. Making it like a sealed bid, we don't see each other's bids until it's too late to respond. I hate bartering.
Post: #73
08-13-2007, 05:05 PM
Quote: Your definition of "fair" must be much different than mine. It is fair if the seller and auction system do not do anything to preclude every bidder having the same opportunity. Everyone has the opportunity to (try) to place a bid in the last few seconds, whether they do it by means of a sniping service, sniping software on their own computer, or by "hand". As far as I can tell, neither eBay nor the sellers do anything that prevents all bidders from having that opportunity. It's possible that a particular bidder can't afford to pay a sniping service, or has a slow internet connection that makes placing a bid in the last few seconds unreliable. Neither situation would be the fault of eBay or the sellers.
Post: #74
08-13-2007, 12:57 PM
I use AuctionSniper. I have tried manual sniping, but it is a complete waste of time and I do not like the excitement or the drama of constantly leapfrogging over another bidder. I set my max price and forget about it. It saves me a lot of time and money (mostly by losing by not getting emotional). Many call it cheating or unfair. Bottom line many snipe (look at the bid history of everything you've lost), and if you want to win you need to play their game too. For more sniping info start here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auction_sniping
Quote: The Yang/Kahng paper has a lot of math (enjoy!) and can be had here: http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/physics/pdf/0511/0511073v1.pdf Vincze, you can always use EMU71 until you score a 71B. And do not forget to post a WTB. I usually try WTB first, many are interested in selling, but do not want to deal with eBay. I have found WTB to offer fair prices, most offer pricing below eBay current wins, others are much lower. Twice I ended up working out a trade that benefited both much more. ▼
Post: #75
08-13-2007, 01:19 PM
How can I use Emu71 without ROM. I thought I look at that and see that you must have ROM from unit. ▼ ▼
Post: #77
08-13-2007, 01:59 PM
Wow, thank you! Now I just need to figure out how to use. It no look like an HP71B, but that okay. If I understand correctly though, I should be able to enter BASIC program in it somehow? ▼
Post: #78
08-13-2007, 02:14 PM
The keyboard mapping should be explained in the associated *.doc file. For manual related questions, you could also drop me a mail... HTH Raymond (Glad to be somewhat more on topic again;-)
Post: #79
08-13-2007, 06:33 PM
There are deals to be had on the auction site. I purchased a 71B on that site last month for $80, near-mint (only the slightest wear on the rubber feet), with case, manuals, template, etc, in box. Yes, really. I am not yet willing to reveal my secrets, as I'm still looking, but I will hint: In order to find the best deals, you must change how you look for them. I promise that searching for "HP Calculator" with default search settings is the worst possible way to find a deal. Good luck! ▼
Post: #80
08-13-2007, 07:23 PM
No kidding, you look for "Hewlett calculator". If you not willing to share secret, then why even mention. I know I am stupid Hungarian, but... ▼
Post: #81
08-13-2007, 08:47 PM
Look for "Hewlett Hewlitt Hewllet" and so forth. That's an old trick. It often results in a buyer taking unfair advantage of a seller who has misspelled the name of his goods. Mis-categorized items are also often good bargains. This is how Coburlinfaratu gets a lot of his deals.
Regards, ▼
Post: #82
08-13-2007, 11:19 PM
Good one! Coburlinfaratu -- a different, less clever and far less seemly moniker jumps into my mind when I see that name. ▼
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Post: #85
08-14-2007, 10:36 AM
Vincze, only if you consider telling a grieving physicist's widow that you'll take that "junk" off her hands and sling her a couple of bucks for the funeral... and then offer the same well-loved item on eBuy next week as "NIB" for $^2 to be evil. ;-) Forgive the idiomatic stuff. Your English is much better than my Hungarian. Search this forum for "Coburlin" and you'll quickly get the joke. (I find Google's "site:" search directive to be very useful because it searches the active forum and the archives in one go.) Howard, I can barely type I'm laughing so much. If you'd posted that picture before I must have missed it. Thanks for sharing. Now, to bring this back on topic, what model calculator is the grieving "widow" in Howard's picture holding? Cameron ▼
Post: #86
08-14-2007, 11:41 AM
Quote:Look like a 41C series to me. ▼
Post: #87
08-14-2007, 11:51 AM
Yup. It's my 41-CX being clutched to the bosom of the eBay vampire's victim! The base image is from a poster for "The Fearless Vampire Killers or 'Pardon Me, But Your Teeth Are in My Neck'". The lady in the poster is Sharon Tate.
Regards, ▼
Post: #88
08-15-2007, 02:21 AM
Quote: ... who was murdered in 1969 in the infamous Charles Manson case. Manson is still imprisoned today, his life spared by some, um, "fortuituous timing".
Post: #89
08-14-2007, 02:24 PM
I didn't know the specifics -- I just knew he was a @!$#*ing $&*%(@! Speaking as a physicist, I've bored my wife with endless calculator trivia -- least of which is not their value.
Post: #90
08-14-2007, 12:36 PM
Look at ALL the search options. Manipulate them to your best advantage. If you're lucky, you'll search in a way that few others use and you'll be able to snap up some great deals before anyone else even knows they're there. The 71B I bought had a page view counter in the listing; when I viewed & bought it, the counter was at 00002. This requires some luck, too. If you're really lucky, you'll find some searches that work even better than what I use. That's the other reason I'm not going to just spell it out... you may do better than I have! Again, best of luck and best wishes. ▼
Post: #92
08-14-2007, 02:26 PM
We should just keep a running list of everything on eBay and then snipe away. Sniping, btw, is the only sensible way to approach the slime-filled arena of eBay.
Post: #94
08-13-2007, 11:18 PM
I empathize with your frustration. I had some very good luck soliciting help from the good folks on this site. Just be sure that if you place a wanted ad and you give your email address, don't assume that your potential benefactor will actually use it. Be sure and check back here daily to find out what a good samaritan might do for you. If his offer "expires" the vultures (wink) around here will scoop it up.
Post: #95
08-16-2007, 05:15 PM
Vincze, What about looking for an 200LX on ebay (still plenty of them available!) and use "emu71" on it?
Quote: http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=3658 Best regards Peter A. Gebhardt ▼
Post: #96
08-16-2007, 08:36 PM
I have emu71 on computer, and it okay, but it is not 71B. I want really want a 71B, as the hardware is what intrigue me most. Just like emulators are nice to see how something work, it just not the same. I guess it is the wow factor that is nice. I pull out my 15C, and I say WOW. |
