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Matrices on HP-15C



#19

Hello.

I'm looking for a website or a document who explains how to use the matrices with the HP-15C.

In particular I would like to know how to solve a system of equations.

Thanks for your help.

Patrick


#20

Quote:
I'm looking for a website or a document who explains how to use the matrices with the HP-15C.

Patrick --

A scan of the HP-15C Owner's Handbook document (as well as the HP-15C Advanced Functions Handbook) is available for purchase on CD or DVD from this MoHPC website.

They're easy to find on the MoHPC main page.

-- KS


#21

Thanks for your answer Karl. I'm sure the DVD is very interesting but I only need a couple of explanations on the matrices, that are certainly freely available somewhere on the net.

Patrick


#22

Hi Patrick,

Patrick posted:

    "I'm sure the DVD is very interesting but I only need a couple of explanations on the
    matrices, that are certainly freely available somewhere on the net."

      Certainly. You can download the whole HP-15C manual, which extensively covers matrix operations (and everything else, for good) in PDF format from this link.

Best regards from V.


#23

Thank you very much Valentin. I'm currently reading one of your document about matrices on your website.

I like your game for the HP 12C. In fact, this program is blind and stupid and has no knowledge of the previous moves. It just reacts to the last move of the player. Nevertheless, the program can't lose. It is in fact a magic trick. Funny. I like it. Bravo.

Patrick

#24

Hello, Valentin --

While the HP-15C Owner's Handbook PDF is still available at the URL you posted, I noticed that the link to it from the "About" page (http://www.hp15c.org/about.php) is not present (or was removed).

I also noticed that the size of the PDF (6.52 MB) matched the one provided in the MoHPC CD-ROM. Was it Dave's scan, or was that scan provided to Dave? Were there copyright issues?

CD #1 is available for only US$12, and also includes the fine HP-15C Advanced Functions Handbook. The German-language HP-15C Benuetzerhandbuch (User's Handbook) is available on CD #7. I'm sure that there was also a French-langauge version of the User's Handbook, but that is not yet available from MoHPC, to my knowledge. Next version, maybe?

You're right that the User's Handbook is the best and definitive source of information for using HP-15C matrix functions. I just think that we should support Dave's site whenever possible... :-)

Best,

-- KS


#25

Hi, Karl:

    This is *not* the first time that this particular link to this particular document has been posted here, as you can easily check in the Archives.

    Also, I was *not* the first person to post it, matter of fact I learned about its very existence by reading someone else's post here, in this forum.

    As all the other times there were no complaints by anyone at all that I can remember, I fail to see how's different this time.

Best regards from V.

#26

Hi, Valentin --

Quote:
As all the other times there were no complaints by anyone at all that I can remember, I fail to see how's different this time.

Hey, who'd complain about free stuff? ;-)

What might be different is that the site administrator (Chris Woodhouse) could have eliminated the hyperlink for a reason -- lack of legal permission, a private complaint, or just simply bandwidth costs. It seems noteworthy that each of the other items in the list at http://www.hp15c.org/about.php provides a link, but conspicuously not "Documentation".

I can provide a similar example from work. An organization once offered a technical document for public download, with a link at their site. After information security was tightened for various reasons, the link disappeared. However, knowing what the name of the document was, I was still able to download an updated version of the document directly, using the unchanged URL. I notified the organization of the situation, and the document was removed from that "download directory".

Or, maybe Chris simply omitted the link, to discourage easy access to a 6.5-MB file, for which he would pay bandwidth charges. Only he can answer that...

Best regards,

-- KS


#27

Hi, Karl:

Karl posted:

    "Hey, who'd complain about free stuff? ;-)"

      This time at least two people are more or less complaining and the stuff is as free in this particular occasion as it was the other times.


    "What might be different is that the site administrator (Chris Woodhouse) could have eliminated the hyperlink for a
    reason -- lack of legal permission, a private complaint, or just simply bandwidth costs."

      That's none of my business. It's been ages since I last visited his site and I don't know if the link is visible at the site or not. If he doesn't want the stuff to be accessed for whatever reasons, he might as well remove it or restrict it somewhat. What he does and why he does it, I don't know and I don't care, the link was publicly posted here by someone and I just made use of it to help some people sometimes. As long as this link is publicly accessible, the legal implications, if any, are his concern, not mine. I know better than to waste my time getting paranoid about legalese minutiae relating to 20+ year-old, obsolete documentation.


    "Or, maybe Chris simply omitted the link, to discourage easy access to a 6.5-MB file, for which he would pay bandwidth charges. Only he can answer that..."

      I rest my case. If you've got the time and the inclination to sleuth the conundrum away, be my guest. As for me, what Chris does or doesn't do with the file is irrelevant. As long as Mr. Hicks doesn't explicitly forbid the use of that link here, as he did with TOS, and as long as the link is functional and unrestricted, I'll post it again whenever the need arises and I feel like doing it.
Thanks for your comments and best regards from V.

#28

Hello,

The link is publicly accessible from the main page. Clic on the dot key at the left of the word "Documentation".

I visited this site a month ago and I read every page and certainly I noted the presence of the link to the manual but I forgot it.

Best regards


#29

Patrick --

Indeed you are correct -- there is a hyperlink on the barely-visible black button on a black background. I wonder why the "Documentation" bullet wasn't formatted like all the others.

The English-language HP-15C Advanced Functions Handbook (AFH) is also worth getting, and I don't know where one can obtain a scan other than from MoHPC on CD #1 or the DVD. (That is, unless it is made available for free download at www.hp15c.org...)

You seem fairly proficient in English, but I suspect that your native tongue is French. Patience may be rewarded: According to this link posted in a recent thread, a scan of the French-language version of the HP-15C Owner's Handbook (OH) should be present on the next version of the DVD. If that comes about, you'll get the AFH and and an OH in French. Given the depth of the OH, it may be a blessing to have a professionally-translated version.

http://www.hpmuseum.org/software/swcdv6.htm#calc

The OH that you downloaded (which seems to be the one from the MoHPC CD/DVD set) provides the best guidance for utilizing the HP-15C. The content is very difficult to improve or elaborate upon, unlike that for more-recent HP calculator manuals.

This explains why no cottage industry emerged to publish books such as "The HP-15C made EZ" -- it just wasn't necessary. HP's official manuals were comprehensive, expertly written by skilled technical writers, and thoroughly proofread for accuracy and consistency. I expect that the translated versions are of equally-high quality, if my German-language HP-15C manual is any indication.

Web-page guides? Nah, the manual(s) are all ya really need. (Of course, the WWW didn't really get going until 1994, five years after the HP-15C was discontinued and replaced by the Pioneer-series calculators.)


-- KS


Edited: 19 Nov 2006, 4:15 p.m. after one or more responses were posted


#30

Hi again, Karl:

Karl posted:

    "The HP-15C Advanced Functions Handbook (AFH) is also worth getting, and I don't know where one can obtain a
    scan other than from MoHPC on CD #1 or the DVD. (That is, unless it becomes available for free download at www.hp15c.org...)"

      Boy, are you lucky ! It is indeed available at that site, and has been for several years. Matter of fact, the proper link has also been posted here a number of times, as you can verify if you bother to scan the archives.

      To save you the trouble, here you are:

      HP-15C Advanced Functions Manual in PDF format

Best regards from V. :-)

#31

Hi again, V --

Quote:
Boy, are you lucky ! It (the HP-15C Advanced Functions Handbook) is indeed available at that site (http://www.hp15c.org/about.php), and has been for several years.

Um? It is not I who needed luck, being the fortunate owner of a published copy of the AFH, two English-language HP-15C Owner's Handbooks, and one German-language version of the OH. In addition, I own the 10 CD MoHPC set with scans of all three of these documents -- which may prove useful if the time comes that I can no longer read the fine-pitch type in those classic manuals without strong reading glasses.

As for "availability", again you are technically correct. The hypertext link to the AFH document at the website is even more subtle -- it's the blue underlined period at the end of the "Documentation" bullet! (I'd seen it, but dismissed it as an editing error.) There must be some reason for his being exceptionally discreet about the links to the two document scans, which seem to be the same ones on the MoHPC CD #1. It certainly doesn't exemplify conventional web-page design.

(Another way to find the URL's for the two documents is to view the source code of www.hp15c.org/about.php, and search for "pdf".)

Quote:
Matter of fact, the proper link has also been posted here a number of times, as you can verify if you bother to scan the archives.

To save you the trouble, here you are:


Well, given that I possess these documents in published and electronic form, I had no need to search for references to them in the Forum Archives. So I didn't.

As for searching the archives, it's not always the most expedient and fruitful endeavor. I've done it a few times to find a particular posting. One can search only one of the 16 archive files at a time. The title of each post quite often has little relation to the topic discussed, as threads evolve and diverge. The text-searching capability is helpful, but it's not the most sophisticated search engine. That's certainly not a complaint, because I know that to enhance the capabilities takes time, effort, and usually money.

Best regards,

-- KS


Edited: 19 Nov 2006, 12:43 a.m.

#32

Hello,

Thank you to both of you. I will probably buy the DVD when the french version of the owner handbook will be added. I'm reading the owner manual and I must say that the quality of the content is incredible.

Patrick

#33

Eeek!

I bought the DVD at first to get the HP15C manuals "legally" since I had just acquired the calc and had no clue how to use it. Of course, there is a wealth of other stuff of great importance and interest on the DVD, so the money was well spent it.

I don't want to spoil anyone's fun, but is this link with free access to the HP15C manual (which looks to me exactly like the scan from the MoHPC DVD) provided with the appropriate permissions and clearances? I am a strong advocate of paying for the DVD, since it supports Mr. Hicks's expansion of the project, AND I know all of the formal permissions have been obtained to resell this material, so I rest easy.

Les


#34

Hi Les,

I haven't given permission for those manual scans to be redistributed.

There was mention of a lack of complaints earlier in the thread. Recently I bought some software from someone with 100% feedback of nearly 1000 on ebay. (My first ebay purchase in about 5 years.) Nearly all of the feedbacks were for selling software - mostly from a single company. He claimed to be a distributor or to be buying from a distributor.

When the so-called "new" software arrived, it was on a CD-R with ink jet printing. (Everything was done to make it look as much like a real CD as possible but it was still obviously not.) I asked the seller if he was sure that this was "new" software and not someone's backup disk and he said it was. So I asked the company if they EVER distributed software that way and they said they didn't. Eventually the account was shut down (and possibly other things happened) but only after selling at least a thousand copies of pirated software without any complaints (or even questions?) until now. There seems to be too much of this stuff going on for even major corporations to keep up with.

Currently I'm spending about 60 hours per week scanning manuals, which isn't leaving time for anything else, including reading. I just happened to read this since I wasn't quite felling awake enough to start scanning this morning.


#35

Dave,

I admire your efforts to help the community. If you confirm me that these two manuals come from the DVD, I promise to delete them of my hard disk. I do not really need these complete manuals. I asked only for some explanations on the functioning of matrices.

Best regards.

Patrick


#36

I am pretty confident that the Owner's Manual and Advanced Functions Handbook pdfs on hp15c.org are lifted straight from the MoHPC DVD.

In the first case, compare the muddled Eiffel Tower diagrams on page 14. Exact. In the second case, compare the black blemish on the upper right corner of page 25. Exact. Better than a finger print.

Please consider supporting the DVD project. The copious library of HP41 and HP67 users' programs, readily modifiable for the HP15C, make the scans a treasure trove of computational gems. And with all of the scanning Mr. Hicks is doing, there is going to be more--a lot more!

Les


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