programming HP35s in algebraic mode, please.
#1

I have a carpentry trigonometric program written in algebraic mode. I got it to go in RPN, but programmed in the original algebraic, I only get "syntax error" as the result. HP35s should do both?

#2

From the 35s manual:

Quote:
Selecting a Mode

Programs created and saved in RPN mode should be edited and executed in RPN mode, and programs or steps created and saved in ALG mode should be edited and executed in ALG mode. If not, the result may be incorrect.


#3

I tried to do all steps and execution in algebraic. I switch mode to algebraic....get it in programming mode. The program reads something like: Sto D, x,Rcl A, +,....etc...So, I hit Sto D and it shows a right arrow and the D, and so I hit enter and fill in the next line or command. RPN mode displayed "Sto D", not right arrow D, but there may be a different display language in algebraic. I followed the program in this carpentry book and it just displays "syntax error". I had translated the book's algebraic to RPN by some forum's help, years ago, and the program is fantastic. The calculator is supposed to do both and a calculator in my childish algebraic would be less thought on the job.
Oh, and I did remember the Rtn. command.

#4

Kip,

Can your reduce the program to a small example that shows the problem that you're having? If we can see something specific, we can probably help.

Dave

#5

I'm not sure if I got your point, and to me all this sounds much more complicated than it actually is, so maybe it's a good idea to simply recall some basics here:

  1. The 35s can be used in RPN as well as in ALG mode. Just as manual operation in these modes is completely different, so is programming: Every program you write has to be written explicitely either for RPN-mode execution or for ALG-mode execution, and it also has to be entered in this mode. If you're changing modes frequently it's a good a idea to place a RPN resp. ALG command right at the beginning of your program to make sure it's executed correctly.

  2. If you're familiar with RPN but all you got is a program written for ALG-mode, you do not have to rewrite the program. Simply insert an ALG command at the very beginning so that the program runs as intended, and put a RPN command right at the end to switch back to your preferred RPN mode.

  3. In some cases programs can be written in a way that allows correct execution both in ALG and RPN mode. This can be done by using equations and/or storage/recall arithmetics. For instance like this (Pythagorean theorem):

    Classic version Using equations

    LBL C LBL C
    RCL A SQRT(A^2+B^2)>C equation: ">C" is "STO C"
    X^2 VIEW C
    STO C RTN
    RCL B
    X^2
    RCL+C
    SQRT
    STO C
    VIEW C
    RTN

    The classic version must be entered in RPN mode! Otherwise STO-instructions will be recorded as equations with these solid right-arrows you already mentioned, leading to syntax errors! The equation-based solution can be entered and executed in both modes.
If all this still doesn't solve your problem please give a specific example so that we're able to help.



Dieter
#6

Thank you for your responses. Don't go overboard for me....protect your time, if you need to. But I'm reading and will be trying. At the end of this I will put down the full programs and their intent. And printing what you've put down and bringing that to my kid's tutor has already gotten me there, undoubtedly.
Dieter's post starting: " I'm not sure..." will probably be over my head, but let me address something. Point #1, On changing modes frequently, I may never go to RPN, again, if I can program and run algebraic and so explaining "RPN resp. ALG" may be time wasted. "resp." may mean respond as, but I don't find that as a button or key.
Point#2: I think that my former small successes in RPN had the display TOP as top of the list. I only will do this one "rake wall" program, so I'm not labeling my program. It sounds like I could leave my great RPN program in there and line one could be that ALG command, but what buttons to push. But...I shouldn't go down that road, huh?
I think Dieter's point#1, and line starting "Every program..." is what I need to plod towards. And this guy can help me, I'm sure. I prefer this as a project with you guys, but I have 4 day blocks off the computer, so don't feel ignored.
That "Classic version..and Using equations" almost looks like I could learn that with some quiet hours. Or that guy. Thanks.
Program from "Carpentry Layout", Ken Todd, '88. I assume ALG.
STO D, x, RCL A, +, RCL C, =, STO E, RCL D, x,RCL B, =, STO F The book leaves out RTN, but I assume it's needed. And this program needed Height Multipier in MEM A: 2/12=0.1666667, STO A. And the Rake Multiplier in MEM B: 2 squared + 12 squared=an answer, square root of, /12=1.0137938, STO B. And the height or length of the first stud...maybe 92.25, STO C. When out of program mode, put in the short point of the first stud, say 15.25", hit R/S for Run and you get the distance along the rake or hypotenuse. Hit RCL E and you get short point length of that stud.
With a forum's help I think that I learned how to interpret that into RPN. It works for me, but I yearn for the ALG.
So, it's: STO D, RCL A, x, RCL C, +, Enter, STO E, RCL D, RCL B, x, Enter, STO F, RTN. And remember that all is over my head and I just need to get the one program in ALG, or, heck, I can always just this last in RPN. Still a good day. Thanks for reading, if nothing else. Right now Carmel Valley is warmer than my house and so I have the doors wide open in January.

#7

Thank you for your responses. Don't go overboard for me....protect your time, if you need to. But I'm reading and will be trying. At the end of this I will put down the full programs and their intent.

And printing what you've put down and bringing that to my kid's tutor has already gotten me there, undoubtedly. Dieter's post starting: " I'm not sure..." will probably be over my head, but let me address something.

Point #1, On changing modes frequently, I may never go to RPN, again, if I can program and run algebraic and so explaining "RPN resp. ALG" may be time wasted. "resp." may mean respond as, but I don't find that as a button or key.

Point#2: I think that my former small successes in RPN had the display TOP as top of the list. I only will do this one "rake wall" program, so I'm not labeling my program. It sounds like I could leave my great RPN program in there and line one could be that ALG command, but what buttons to push. But...I shouldn't go down that road, huh? I think Dieter's point#1, and line starting "Every program..." is what I need to plod towards. And this guy can help me, I'm sure.

I prefer this as a project with you guys, but I have 4 day blocks off the computer, so don't feel ignored. That "Classic version..and Using equations" almost looks like I could learn that with some quiet hours. Or that guy. Thanks.

Program from "Carpentry Layout", Ken Todd, '88.

I assume ALG.

STO D, 
x,
RCL A,
+,
RCL C,
=,
STO E,
RCL D,
x,
RCL B,
=,
STO F

The book leaves out RTN, but I assume it's needed.

And this program needed Height Multipier in MEM A: 2/12=0.1666667, STO A.

And the Rake Multiplier in MEM B: 2 squared + 12 squared=an answer, square root of, /12=1.0137938, STO B.

And the height or length of the first stud...maybe 92.25, STO C.


When out of program mode, put in the short point of the first stud, say 15.25", hit R/S for Run and you get the distance along the rake or hypotenuse. Hit RCL E and you get short point length of that stud.

With a forum's help I think that I learned how to interpret that into RPN. It works for me, but I yearn for the ALG.

So, it's:

STO D, 
RCL A,
x,
RCL C,
+,
Enter,
STO E,
RCL D,
RCL B,
x,
Enter,
STO F,
RTN.

And remember that all is over my head and I just need to get the one program in ALG, or, heck, I can always just this last in RPN. Still a good day. Thanks for reading, if nothing else. Right now Carmel Valley is warmer than my house and so I have the doors wide open in January.

#8

Since the original program is from '88 it obviously wasn't programmed on a 35s which appeared almost 20 years later. Many things are different today - for instance there is no "="-key to finish a calculation, ENTER is used instead. Anyway - without extensive explanations, simply try this:

  • Press GTO . . to place the calculator at the top of program memory
    (GTO followed by 2x decimal point). Make sure ALG mode is on by pressing MODE 4.
  • Switch the 35s to program mode (blue shift R/S) to see PRGM TOP
  • Enter the following program (of course without the line numbers)
    0001 LBL A   (blue shift key, XEQ key, A)
    0002 STO D
    0003 RCLx A (Press RCL, multiply, A)
    0004 RCL+ C
    0005 STO E
    0006 RCL D
    0007 RCLx B
    0008 STO F
    0009 RTN (yellow shift key, XEQ key)

    Quit program mode.

  • Test in ALG Mode:
    2 / 12 ENTER  STO A ENTER  result is 0,1667, display shows LASTx>A
    2 y^x 2 + 12 y^x 2 ENTER display shows 2^2+12^2, result is 148
    squareroot LASTx ENTER "LASTx" is blue-shift ENTER,
    result is 12.1655
    / 12 ENTER divide this by 12, result is 1.0138
    STO B ENTER display shows "LASTx>B"
    92,25 STO C ENTER display shows 92.25>C

    Press GTO .. again - just to be sure.

  • Enter 15,25 and press R/S (or XEQ A), get the result 15.4604
  • Press RCL E ENTER and see that E is 94.7917


This program will work both in ALG mode as well as in RPN mode.



All this just scratches the surface of what your HP35s can do for you. You will have to read the manual and get more accustomed to it to use its full potential. Your carpentry program could be much more powerful and way easier to use. ;-)



Dieter
#9

I can't write in columns. Not savvy. Sorry.
I did:GTO decimal decimal.....MODE 4....blue shift R/S...and saw PRGM TOP. LBL A went well. That line 0002, though, is heading me down that old path. I did STO D and got that solid right arrow and a D and a blinking space that I can only kill with an ENTER. I can make it read like Dieter's, but only in RPN, which may be what Dieter meant. In that ALG MODE test, just below in Dieter's post, I put it into ALG and at that MEM B, I got the Syntax Error.

#10

Quote:
I can't write in columns.

You can. For a new paragraph simply press Return twice. Or press the "newline" button below the edit window, this will insert a [nl]. If you want to look everything the way you entered (like the program listing above) use the "preformatted" button or enclose that section in [pre] ... [/pre] tags.
Quote:
I did:GTO decimal decimal.....MODE 4....blue shift R/S...and saw PRGM TOP. LBL A went well. That line 0002, though, is heading me down that old path. I did STO D and got that solid right arrow and a D and a blinking space that I can only kill with an ENTER. I can make it read like Dieter's, but only in RPN, which may be what Dieter meant.

Right - my fault. Although the program can run both in ALG and RPN mode, it has to be entered in RPN mode, not in ALG. So press MODE 5 (not 4), then switch to program mode, enter the listing, quit program mode and switch back to ALG with MODE 4.
Quote:
In that ALG MODE test, just below in Dieter's post, I put it into ALG and at that MEM B, I got the Syntax Error.

What "MEM B"? There is no such key on the 35s. To store a number use the STO key, to recall a number use the RCL key. The "MEM" is something completely different, it shows the memory used for variables and programs.



Just try again, set MODE 5, enter the program, switch back to MODE 4 and everything should work as expected.



Dieter
#11

Wow. I was reading Dieter's 2y,up arrow, x, 2 as the x2 button, but then I recouped after 45 mins. of Syntax Error and spied the y-thing button. It works.....It works! Thank you, Dieter. None of my TI-30xA had that....no, I see it. Just never really saw it. My next move will be to try to understand how all those STO E's...etc....really work. The Program. You got me as far as I'd intended to go, but I like your idea of spending time with that manual tome.
I just tried the newline thing and I'll spy back and see if it worked.

Return twice worked? I'm doubting that one.Preformat? Try.

REPLACE THIS TEXT WITH YOUR LISTING
line 1
line 2 ...doubt..not important.
line 3...etc
Thank you guys, so much. Doubt I'm welcome back. All your bruised foreheads!


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