Does anyone know if the 42s has a "trace" printing function like the 28c/28s?
42s printing
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10-11-2008, 03:16 PM
10-11-2008, 03:25 PM
Yes. It's found under the PRINT menu. Mike
10-11-2008, 03:49 PM
Thanks Mike, do you know if it functions the same way? (sending to the printer after each enter/function)
10-11-2008, 04:59 PM
Yes. Please look at page 102 of the HP42S Owner's Manual. It's on the Museum DVD.
10-11-2008, 05:10 PM
Yes, Keith, I believe that the TRACE functions of the various HP calculators have always been similar in producing printer output for functions executed from the keyboard, in addition to those functions executed within a program. Thomas Okken's excellent FREE42 emulation of the HP42S AND the HP-82240 printer on various platforms can be found at: http://free42.sourceforge.net/ FREE42 is a great way to experience the functional characteristics the HP42S. Though it is more than 20 years old, the HP42S is the best RPN calculator of all time, IMHO. Think what could be done in the same size package with today's technology! Mike
10-11-2008, 09:12 PM
Thanks Walter and Mike. I don't have a 42s yet, so the advice on the emulator program is very useful. I've tried and owned a number of calcs, and am finding I like my 32sII the best right now (the 48GX has it's uses, but is not a hand-held). I really like the idea of how the 28c/28s work, but they also are not true handhelds, and are cumbersome to use. I'm thinking the 42s has all the function of the 32sII (and more) with the printing capability, which I want every now and then. Thanks again for the help!
10-11-2008, 09:26 PM
Keith, Quote:You may use the comparison function of the museum and compare the 32s and 42s. The 32sii does everything the 32s does, plus fractions, but in a different approach. You can see this easily when looking at their keyboards. The 42s does not support fractions. Not that I think the fraction feature is very important, but you should know.
10-12-2008, 01:01 AM
Quote: A few other things the HP-32SII has, that neither the HP-42S nor the HP-32S has:
(NOTE: corrected version)
That last one is Walter's favorite... ;-) Seriously, the HP-32SII offered many features its predecessor HP-32S and HP-42S did not. It's more than just an HP-32S with more directly-accessible functions. -- KS
Edited: 12 Oct 2008, 2:46 p.m. after one or more responses were posted
10-12-2008, 03:46 AM
Karl,
You are right, of course. At 3 o'clock in the morning, I simply forgot equations. The other points, however, forget them. Who needs Quote:? Shifted y-th root is absolutely superfluous. Population SD is less useful than SD of the mean. Etc. ;) Quote:It's a 32s with maximum clutter. And talking about "many": the 32sii lacks many useful functions the 42s offers. Ceterum censeo: HP, launch a 43s. Walter
Edited: 12 Oct 2008, 7:24 a.m.
10-12-2008, 08:15 AM
A thing I miss in the 32S (I or II) is a beeper. TONE functions in the HP 41/42 are useful as prompts in programs, and also may work as a primitive output channel, it can drive a LED, optocoupler, etc.
10-12-2008, 01:34 PM
Walter --
Quote: First off, I made several careless errors. I should have stated
- "x-th root of y" And, you should have stated, "SD of the sample".
Quote: "x-th root of y" is a convenience that allows odd-integer roots of negative numbers to be found adroitly. This is useful in programs, should this situation arise. Also, the result using "x-th root of y" may be more accurate by one or more ULP than taking 1/x followed by y^x, as the internal result of 1/x is not rounded to 12 digits for output before taking y^x. Absence of "x-th root of y" may explain why the unshifted 1/x and y^x are adjacent on the Voyager-series keyboards. For example, try taking the cube root of (e^pi)8, using each of the two methods. I get a difference of 4E-8, or 4 ULP of a 12-digit result. Or, the cube root of 989,999,999,999: I get a difference of 9E-8, or 9 ULP of a 12-digit result.
Quote: As for SD, we must consider what the user's task is. Population SD would be calculated for the quiz scores of a classroom of pupils, as 25 or so would represent the entire population. Sample SD would be used for a few trials of an experiment. However, most users nowadays would probably do these calculations using a spreadsheet, anyway... "Roll up" is a very handy convenience, especially in programs. It's not absolutely essential; the HP-32S, HP-10C, and original HP-35 did without it. On the HP-42S, it's available only from the function catalog. As for SI<->British conversions, that's been discussed (and argued) previously in the Forum. The conversions are useful for "us in the US", particularly the temperature conversions, which are non-proportional.
Quote: On clutter: The HP-32SII arrangement is quite logical -- about as good as it could be done -- although not perfect as on the HP-15C. The HP-32SII looks somewhat cluttered because the yellow and blue shifted functions are adjacent instead of aligned vertically, and the letters for variables are also imprinted. -- KS
Edited: 12 Oct 2008, 8:08 p.m. after one or more responses were posted
10-12-2008, 03:10 PM
42s R^ *only* on catalog?
what a new 42 would need is more shift keys
10-12-2008, 03:26 PM
Quote: Yes, knowledgable users of the HP-42S are well aware of the 3x6 = 18 available assignments to the CUSTOM menu. I've made assigments for a number of useful or repeatedly-accessed functions that are otherwise difficult to access. And of course, any function can be spelled out character-by-character and executed. So, there are always at least two ways to access any function, but not all are on the keyboard or placed in a standard menu. A table in the HP-42S manual documents the accessibility of each function. -- KS
10-12-2008, 03:49 PM
Quote: Andres -- It seems that the product-design principle was that only the top-end Pioneers (HP-42S, HP-27S, HP-17B/BII) got the extra hardware of faster Saturn chip, dot-matrix display, LED transmitter, and speaker. The HP-32S/SII provided "INPUT" for prompting data from the user. Based on the limited RAM and program-structuring capabilities of the HP-32S/SII, H-P probably assumed that users would not write elaborate programs that took a long time to run. -- KS
10-12-2008, 06:23 PM
Karl,
thanks for some clarifications of your post above.
Ceterum censeo: HP, launch a 43s. Walter
Edited: 12 Oct 2008, 6:35 p.m.
10-12-2008, 09:24 PM
Karl: I enjoyed interfacing a microprocessor board (RCA COSMAC 1802) with my HP41C back in 1981, using TONE (even synthetic ones) and counting the pulses on the piezoelectric speaker. I would like the 32 (or, by the way, the 33S, 35S, or 20B) to allow for such trick. Nothing serious... While the 20B has some nice I/O possibilities, a beeper would do some signalling without requiring firmware changes or development.
10-12-2008, 09:40 PM
Walter -- I tidied up the quoting of you in my earlier post to encompass (without formatting) only what had preceded the lonely question mark that began a new line... :-)
Quote: That's undoubtedly true for most engineering and scientific applications. I'd surmise that 1/x followed by y^x will always give a result correct to at least 9 significant digits on Saturn-era models. The pre-Saturn models, of course, will give fewer. Still, it seems to have been a design objective for Saturn-based models for each mathematical operation to give a result correct to all 12 significant digits. That wasn't possible for roots without "y^(1/x)", even if 1/x and y^x individually met the standard. There's still that issue of an odd-integer root of a negative number inside a program, too. Bottom line: "y^(1/x)" is worth having if space is available. That is not true about x3 and cube root...
Quote: On models that don't have VIEW, or don't support VIEW for stack contents, "Roll up" is a good way to peek at the value in the stack t-register.
Quote: You may be correct that standard error [SE = s / sqrt(n)] of the x-data and y-data might be more valuable than population standard deviation (sigma). Both are fairly easy to calculate from summation data of a sample set, but one needs to know the formula (or technique to determine the desired result). Sigma-x and Sigma-y may have been added to the HP-32SII because space was available, and because some users were confused about the difference between "s" (sample SD) and "sigma" (population SD), and were not obtaining the correct answers they sought. Maybe that's the objective -- ensure that the user will get the basic answer right, before providing additional features. BTW, which (if any) scientific/statistical calculators provide a standard-error calculation?
Quote: Not likely -- we've got far more infrastructure and legal records based on Imperial measurements. It's like changing the course of a supertanker. Heck, we can't even replace the dollar bill with a well-designed dollar coin. Maybe that won't matter much in the foreseeable future, with both superseded by our very own "Notgeld"... -- KS
Edited: 12 Oct 2008, 10:10 p.m. |
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