LIF interchange (71B|75C|41C) <-> 85B - Printable Version +- HP Forums (https://archived.hpcalc.org/museumforum) +-- Forum: HP Museum Forums (https://archived.hpcalc.org/museumforum/forum-1.html) +--- Forum: Old HP Forum Archives (https://archived.hpcalc.org/museumforum/forum-2.html) +--- Thread: LIF interchange (71B|75C|41C) <-> 85B (/thread-76958.html) |
LIF interchange (71B|75C|41C) <-> 85B - Howard Owen - 08-20-2005 I have just taken delivery on a 9121D dual floppy unit. I hooked it up to my 85B and saved a couple of files onto a single sided disc. Then I placed this disc in my 9114 and did a CAT of the drive from my 71B. To my joy, the catalog appeared, albeit with unknown (to the 71B) file types listed against the HP85 BASIC files. Next I tried serving out a LIF image of one of Vassilis' HP85 disks to the 71B with EMU41. The idea was to copy these to the 9114 and thus sneakernet software onto the 85. Unfortunately, the 71B reported "Unknown file type" on any attempt to copy the files out of the virtual LIF disk and onto the 9114.
Does anyone know how to manipulate the LIF file type from a 71B? There must be a LEX file somewhere that lets you diddle the bits on disk. (I can do this in Linux, but while the resulting file should copy using the 71B, the result on the 85 would be an incorrect file type.)
Re: LIF interchange (71B|75C|41C) <-> 85B - J-F Garnier - 08-21-2005 Hi Howard, The basic HP-71B can't copy file of unknown format, but if you load the JPC ROM into Emu71 (or in a HP-71B), then you will be able to copy foreign file from one disk to another (but not to load them into the HP71 /Emu71 of course). J-F
Edited: 21 Aug 2005, 3:33 p.m.
Re: LIF interchange (71B|75C|41C) <-> 85B - Howard Owen - 08-21-2005 Oh, cool! Thanks, JF!
Did I mention that this guy's software is great?
Re: LIF interchange (71B|75C|41C) <-> 85B - Howard Owen - 08-21-2005 No joy, I'm afraid. The JPC ROM (jcpromx.bin) correctly handles LIF files for HP-75 and HP-41, but not for HP-85.
Your software is still cool, though. 8)
Re: LIF interchange (71B|75C|41C) <-> 85B - Howard Owen - 08-21-2005 This is turning out to be kind of fun. The JPC ROM has a file type LEX that recognizes other handheld machine's files. So HP-75 and HP-41 file types are recognized by the 71B (or by EMU71) when that ROM is loaded. But it doesn't cope with HP85 file types. However, looking through Joe's LEX file index, I ran across EXTFILES, which is described like so: Quote: "Great," I thought, "this is just the code the JPC ROM used." But the part about "every file type known to the handheld community" made me decide to try it out. It's included in lexfl1.zip from JF's site. Sure enough, when I loaded it into EMU71 (after turning off the JPC ROM) I was able to list a LIF image of the HP-85 games pac with "PROG8" as the file type! Next I tried 'COPY "BLACKJ:3" to ":6"', with the 6th HP-IL device being my 9114, and I got "HPIL ERR:File Protect".
Bummer. Well, I know I skimmed past the informationo on how to remove that protection somewhere in the PPC or HPPC archives. I seem to recall it uses two characters as the unlock key, so brute force should work pretty well if nothing else. More research is called for. Good thing I enjoy that sort of thing. 8)
Re: LIF interchange (71B|75C|41C) <-> 85B - Howard Owen - 08-22-2005 As many will know, the "protected" status of a LIF file is merely a different file type in the directory. I believe there is also another method of locking up files that may involve encryption, but this isn't it. Just finding the appropriate unprotected type number of the file type and changing it in the directory is enough to allow the file to be copied. This is trivial when you are dealing with an image of the disk, of course.
Circumventing copy protection is not my usual modus when dealing with computers. My dislike of the DMCA notwithstanding, I usually try not to mess with that sort of thing. But the bits in this case were free to copy in the form of a disk image, but not as individual files. I believe that makes circumventing the non-protecting copy protection OK. That's a self serving interpretation, but I'll stick by it. 8)
Re: LIF interchange (71B|75C|41C) <-> 85B - J-F Garnier - 08-24-2005 Congrat Howard! Despite my approximative suggession, you made it!
J-F
Re: LIF interchange (71B|75C|41C) <-> 85B - Howard Owen - 08-24-2005 Thanks, Jeff! It's a little cumbersome, but I've now copied over several of the disks available at Vassilis' site. One other item of interest: the 71B thinks the disks have less capacity than they actually do. I recall reading about this in the PPC journals, together with a hack for getting around it. At any rate, it means that I have to copy the files to the real floppy in two passes. So here's the process:
The thing that stands out for me in trying to get stuff done on these old machines is the amount of grunt work involved. The above process is an example. On Linux, I do some bash scripting with a little Perl mixed in, or else (more rarely) a full-blown Perl program, and I get 99% of what I need done with comparatively little effort. the extra work in these 20th century models isn't just due to the more primitive tools available, though. It also has to do with the number of incompatible systems you have to traverse in order to get things done.
Re: LIF interchange (71B|75C|41C) <-> 85B - Vassilis Prevelakis - 08-24-2005 Howard Owen wrote: False! The 85 can read disks formatted by the 71B (and the 41C). You are just using the wrong drive. The 9121 is SINGLE sided, while the 9114A/B are DOUBLE sided. If you use a double sided drive with you 85 (e.g. the 9122) you will be able to read 9114A/B disks. BTW note that to use the 9122 with the HP85 you will need the EMS rom (available from http://www.series80.org). **vp
Edited: 24 Aug 2005, 4:50 p.m.
Re: LIF interchange (71B|75C|41C) <-> 85B - Howard Owen - 08-24-2005 Gee, I happen to have a 9122 gathering dust. How do I get the EMS ROM of which you speak? (On my real 85B, that is.)
Re: LIF interchange (71B|75C|41C) <-> 85B - Vassilis Prevelakis - 08-24-2005 You can download the ROM image from the Series80 web site
**vp
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