[HP Prime] Constants Library Values  Printable Version + HP Forums (https://archived.hpcalc.org/museumforum) + Forum: HP Museum Forums (https://archived.hpcalc.org/museumforum/forum1.html) + Forum: Old HP Forum Archives (https://archived.hpcalc.org/museumforum/forum2.html) + Thread: [HP Prime] Constants Library Values (/thread254390.html) 
[HP Prime] Constants Library Values  Timothy Roche  10302013 Posting this with the hope that the powers that be will see it and include/update the existing constants library of the HP Prime Graphing Calculator.
HP Prime — Fundamental Physical Constants The physical constants list in the HP Prime Constants library ([Shift] [Units] [Const]) is based on the 2006 CODATA values and is out of date. These values have now been superseded by the 2010 CODATA values. Nearly all of the accepted values for these frequentlyused, physical constants have been altered in the most recent iteration of CODATA. This is a consequence of the continued efforts for increased precision through new and improved measurements and a more fundamental effort to reorganize the world’s measurement units—in a way that will produce an absolute system of measurement. (For an entertaining and detailed review of the historic quest for an absolute system of measurement I recommend reading World in the Balance by Robert P. Crease.) Here (below) are the values as they should be listed in the HP Prime’s Constants Library if it were to use the 2010 CODATA values. Where appropriate, values are reported with 16 significant digits (the same number internally stored in the WP 34s). If the HP Prime can store numbers with an excess of 12 significant digits that should certainly be done. I have also included units: should not the Constants library display units also?
Chemistry
Physics
Quantum Note: I have used the digitgrouping number format as spelled out in the NIST Guide to SI (section 10.5.3):
Quote: This would be a good method to improve legibility of larger and smaller numbers on the HP Prime in lieu of incorporating a digit grouping character. I would also like to see the leading zero return for decimal fractions.
Tim Edited: 30 Oct 2013, 8:52 p.m.
Re: [HP Prime] Constants Library Values  Tim Wessman  10302013 From one Timothy to another, thanks! I'll take a look and see what needs updating. I would like it to display the units at some point, as well as some possible other improvements. TW
Edited: 30 Oct 2013, 10:46 p.m.
Re: [HP Prime] Constants Library Values  Walter B  10302013 Tim, Thanks for pointing to CODATA 2010. Regarding CONST in the WP 34S, seems we need storing some digits more for [eps_0] and [µ_0] and two more for R_[infinity]. I didn't find any other deviations so far. With respect to digit grouping: we'll introduce this with the 43S.
d:)
Re: [HP Prime] Constants Library Values  Paul Dale  10312013 I thought we'd already done the CODATA 2010 update. Have to check the tolerances.
 Pauli
Re: [HP Prime] Constants Library Values  Paul Dale  10312013 We match all digits for those three constants. µ_{0} is a multiple of pi, so we could extend the presented digits.
Re: [HP Prime] Constants Library Values  Walter B  10312013 Hmmmh, why do I get far less than 16 digits when recalling [eps_0] or µ_0 from CONST even with DBLON set?? I'd expect more instead. FYI: 3384 emulator as well (bad?) as 3407 calculator.
d:?
Re: [HP Prime] Constants Library Values  Paul Dale  11012013 We match the NIST values as presented by NIST. There are less than 16 digits presented in their listing, thus we provide less than 16 digits. eps_{0} is listed as 8.854 187 817... x 10^{12} F m^{1}. The 34S uses 8.854187817E12. µ_{0} is listed as 12.566 370 614... x 10^{7} N A^{2}. The 34S uses 12.566370614E7.
Re: [HP Prime] Constants Library Values  Walter B  11012013 Rats! >:( Did you notice the elipses in their listing? Come on, µ_{0} is clearly stated as 4[pi]*10^(7) N/A^2; and you don't want to tell me you set [pi]=3.141 592 653 since some folks would list it as 3.141 592 653..., do you? You know better!
d:/
Re: [HP Prime] Constants Library Values  Paul Dale  11012013 Does this mean we should use values for these constants not as per the NIST listing? Despite claiming in the manual that we do? Increasing the number of digits is just a matter of adding the extra digits to the definition. The build process will figure out that they are now double precision and allocate them as such.
Re: [HP Prime] Constants Library Values  Walter B  11012013 Du musst dein Gehirn nicht abgeben, wenn du diese Liste liest. (Attempted translation: You're still allowed to think while reading that listing).
d;)
Re: [HP Prime] Constants Library Values  Marcus von Cube, Germany  11012013 I've done a rebuild.
Re: [HP Prime] Constants Library Values  Walter B  11012013 Ha, what a difference today makes! Thanks Pauli & Marcus! d:) P.S.: But  alas  somebody forgot Z_{0} :(
Edited: 1 Nov 2013, 1:30 p.m.
Re: [HP Prime] Constants Library Values  Paul Dale  11012013 This is the first mention of Z_{0}. We can't read minds, so it must have been you who forgot :) You've got svn commit permissions. It really is just changing the constant in the source file & rebuilding.
Re: [HP Prime] Constants Library Values  Walter B  11022013
Quote:I know, I know. But I still have problems committing there :( Quote:Nor do I. But all of us can read formulas, can't we? ;) Anyway  thanks for build 3467!
d:)
Re: [HP Prime] Constants Library Values  Csaba Tizedes (Hungary)  11022013 All values in SI without prefixes except only Standard Pressure.
Csaba
Re: [HP Prime] Constants Library Values  Walter B  11022013 FWIW, it's 101 325 Pa in the WP 34S CONST catalog. And we can rightfully claim featuring the most precise values of the fundamental physical constants [eps]_{0}, µ_{0}, and Z_{0} available in a true pocket calculator.
d:)
Re: [HP Prime] Constants Library Values  Les Koller  11022013 Great post! I was just reading a couple days ago about updating the constants again, and trying to rewrite some of the constants to be EXACT in terms of other constants. Good callout!
Re: [HP Prime] Constants Library Values  Dieter  11032013 Since there still seems to be some room for additional digits in the 34s firmware, I would like to express my hope that a long existing annoyance may finally be fixed as well: what do you think  how much room would be required to store all current menu positions, not just that of the last one? This would make using the 34s so much more comfortable.
Dieter, Re: [HP Prime] Constants Library Values  Walter B  11032013 Hallo Dieter, One thing is storage space for constants, another thing is space for variables. Memory for variables is almost full (one bit left AFAIK). The odds for fullfilling your wish with the WP 34S are below 0.1%.
d:I
Re: [HP Prime] Constants Library Values  Marcus von Cube, Germany  11032013 It's a tradeoff between register space, program space and other info stored in RAM. Room for the firmware implementation should be available.
Re: [HP Prime] Constants Library Values  Dieter  11032013 Fine, let's see. Ten menus with, say, up to 64 entries (is it really that much?) would require 10x 6 bits. Or let's say 64 bits. Eight bytes. That's not much. What could be sacrificed for this?
Dieter
Re: [HP Prime] Constants Library Values  Paul Dale  11032013 There are twenty one catalogues present in the 34S, varying in sizes ranging from 9 entries to 126:
#entry #bits Catalogue Of these the constants and complex constants could share an position and the upper and lower case special alpha catalogues could too  this would cost more code space but save a few bits of RAM. With optimal binary packing (second column) we'd require 118 bits  fifteen bytes. This would cost plenty of code space to implement. Using seven bits per entry, means nineteen bytes at a more reasonable code space cost. One byte per entry, would be twenty one bytes. Dropping the existing catalogue position state twelve bits are reclaimed. Plus there is one spare bit in this piece of RAM. Any excess space would have to come out of program/return stack/statistics/register memory  there simply isn't any other memory available.
Re: [HP Prime] Constants Library Values  Timothy Roche  11042013 Perhaps you could use the behavior of the HP 39gII as a starting point for some other improvements. I am thinking broadly about the Prime’s [Units] menu as a whole and its constituent submenus: [Tools] (conversion functions), [Units] (library of stored units categorized by type), and [Const] (constants library, also categorized by type) and how they work (or do not work) together to fulfill a task. Although I much prefer the methodology on the HP 50g (set to soft MENU) for calculations involving units, if one must use menus then it seems the HP 39gII is easier and more practicable than the HP Prime at the moment. Some things the HP 39gII does well (not really a quote, was looking for a bullet list):
Quote: Leaving the HP 39gII as a model. I most frequently visit the [Units] menu on the Prime to grab a constant for a calculation or, as the name of the menu implies, to do a unit conversion. The function I most often use from [Tools] is CONVERT. Might it occupy one of the empty soft menu positions on the touch screen? That would save time jumping from one menu to another.
Tim
Re: [HP Prime] Constants Library Values  Walter B  11042013
Quote:Find it here: http://www.hpmuseum.org/artfmt.htm. Quite close, isn't it?
d:)
Re: [HP Prime] Constants Library Values  Timothy Roche  11042013 Thanks
