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New infos about HP Prime - Printable Version

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New infos about HP Prime - Mic - 05-30-2013

hello, here are some interesting information about HP Prime with Connectivity kit view :

http://www.calc-bank.com/index.php?mod=news&ac=commentaires&id=1948

Geometrical test commands like is_paralleogram( is pefect for surmising.


Re: New infos about HP Prime - Chris Smith - 05-30-2013

That settings screen looks a little too nSpire for my liking.


Re: New infos about HP Prime - Tim Wessman - 05-30-2013

Eh?

Looks like a pretty bone dry standard dialog screen for changing some settings essentially identical to the 50g, 39gII, or pretty much any dialog on any computer software ever.

What exactly is bothersome and how would you change it?

TW


Re: New infos about HP Prime - Chris Smith - 05-30-2013

Firstly nSpire CX CAS for comparison so my comment has some meat to it...

That particular CX CAS unit is Pandora's box and is full of pain.

Some specific issues I have:

1. I doubt you can accurately focus a field with touch at that screen size and finger size. That limits the usability of the touch interface if it can't be used consistently across the device for all operations.

2. Paging is horrid as there are no consistent semantics relating to persisting the changes. The 50g suffers from this terribly, particularly if you hit MODE, change something, then do DISP soft menu. I assume from the screenshot that every change is persisted right away, but it would be nice to have either a confirmation step or a "reset these to defaults" soft menu item, particularly with touch on which it is very easy to mis-key and cock stuff up.

3. Having used the nSpire for about 2 years, one of the real pain points is that it tries to pull off a desktop user interface, badly. It is pretty much stated above that you are trying to achieve that. Devices of this size and scope just can't pull that off: look at Windows CE and how horrible that is to use. The controls are hard to locate, activate and operate. This is regardless of the input device - the keyboard is hard to use, the stylus and touch are inaccurate.

How would I change it?

Probably redesign the UI to be focused on touch-based controls rather than fiddly desktop type controls, easy to focus navigation and soft keys and allow swiping to switch context.

To be honest, buy a Windows Phone and play with it for a couple of days.

Edited: 30 May 2013, 8:33 a.m.


Re: New infos about HP Prime - Software49g - 05-30-2013

Quote:
as there are no consistent semantics relating to persisting the

changes. The 50g suffers from this terribly, particularly if you

hit MODE, change something, then do DISP soft menu.


Sorry, but that is complete BS in regards to the 48/49/50.

If you leave an inform box with [ OK ] changes are accepted.

If you leave an inform box with [CANCL] changes are rejected.



So if you change something in [MODE] and then go to [DISP]

and then return to [MODE] changes in [DISP] are done according

how you left it.

You return to [MODE] exactly in the state that you left it. Now,

again, saving the values of a changed [MODE] inform box depends

on how you leave it.



HTH,

Andreas

http://www.software49g.gmxhome.de


Re: New infos about HP Prime - Tim Wessman - 05-30-2013

> 1. I doubt you can accurately focus a field with touch at that screen size and finger size.

You actually can and it works fine, but I see your point here.

>2. Paging is horrid as there are no consistent semantics relating to persisting the changes.

This does have consistency that carries over from the 39 which is all changes are immediate. Granted, I personally prefer the confirmation style, but it is definitely consistent. That is also consistent with the behavior users are used to with smartphones where settings are selected and there tends to be no "ok, now apply all of this".

This devices uses the concept of view switching. A screen like this can be immediately left and changed to another view/application screen. There really isn't any sort of cancel or validation.

> The 50g suffers from this terribly, particularly if you hit MODE, change something, then do DISP soft menu.

Yeah, that really sucks. Never liked it.

> "reset these to defaults" soft menu item, particularly with touch on which it is very easy to mis-key and cock stuff up.

BKSP on any item does this, CLEAR on the screen resets all. Carries over from the 39.

>3. Having used the nSpire for about 2 years, one of the real pain points is that it tries to pull off a desktop user interface, badly. It is pretty much stated above that you are trying to achieve that.

Nah, I think you misunderstood there. What I was saying is that any type of list selection item pretty much looks the same and there are only so many ways to make one. There are definitely benefits to doing things in a way that are recognizable to users.

My biggest gripe with the nspire is, as you say, that it is just a desktop application packaged onto a small device. Really, really, really bad idea in practice.

Prime definitely does not follow that. However, the goal definitely was not to completely replace the UI and turn it into a smartphone. It had to still be recognizable as a graphing calculator. There is not any sort of "dragging on scrollbars with a cursor" or things like that such as on the nspire.

TW


Re: New infos about HP Prime - Cristian Arezzini - 05-30-2013

I'm almost scared of asking this, but... What will be the support for Linux? With the 50g I can use the SD card without problems to transfer data across, but since the Prime has no SD and relies on software on the computer... Am I out of luck?


Re: New infos about HP Prime - Chris Smith - 05-30-2013

My point is that they are two separate screens but are presented in a nested fashion. If you cancel the mode screen, it should undo the changes made in the disp screen. Or they should be presented from a menu to start with.

Much as you don't expect a second tab to be persisted if you whack cancel in a property page in windows.


Re: New infos about HP Prime - Chris Smith - 05-30-2013

1. I have large fingers - I'll leave this until I get my hands on an actual device I think.

2. Consistency good. I retract my comment on that then :)

3. I'm more happy with that.

Thank you for your detailed response - it has given me a little more confidence when it comes to making a purchasing decision later in the year.

The nSpire unfortunately has done a lot of damage to people so I think some of us are quite cynical when it comes to such things.


Re: New infos about HP Prime - cyrille de Brébisson - 05-30-2013

sorry... wine maybe? at least in a glass... it helps...

cyrille


Re: New infos about HP Prime - Calum Tait - 05-30-2013

Maybe someone will develop a desktop utility for Linux. I certainly hope so as lack of Linux support for data transfer would rule the Prime out for me.


Re: New infos about HP Prime - Cristian Arezzini - 05-31-2013

I could accept wine (I have no "moral problem" in running Windows-native executables), but if the software will be protected (or if it has some weird i/o going on) then the chances of it working with wine are low...
If they're not going to support Linux natively, it would be nice if they at least make the software wine-friendly.


Re: New infos about HP Prime - bhtooefr - 05-31-2013

As far as I could tell from what I could find in the 39gII emulator and connectivity kit, that calculator uses USB HID for connectivity.

I'd need to get a real 39gII and then sniff the USB packets to see what it's actually doing, though...