WP 34S accuracy is excellent  Printable Version + HP Forums (https://archived.hpcalc.org/museumforum) + Forum: HP Museum Forums (https://archived.hpcalc.org/museumforum/forum1.html) + Forum: Old HP Forum Archives (https://archived.hpcalc.org/museumforum/forum2.html) + Thread: WP 34S accuracy is excellent (/thread223576.html) 
WP 34S accuracy is excellent  Jeff Johnson  06012012 In the somewhat pedantic area of calculator torture testing, it's refreshing to see that the WP 34S shines in the area of extreme calculations (for example http://voidware.com/calcs/torturetest.htm). It has miffed me that the HP calculators have historically not performed well in this area, but "lesser" calculators have. The HP15C and LE rank humorously low in this area, running neck and neck with my HP45 and 25. The HP 30b transmogrified into WP 34S leapfrogs the entire pack of commercial calculators, including the TI89/92. The only exception I found was in the calculation of mod(73^55,31)=26, which I found on a web site a few years back and with which I have tested a number of calculators. Few are capable of calculating 73^55, and of those that can, few come up with the correct modulo remainder of 26. The TI89/92 will calculate it correctly, as will the HP50g, if it's in CAS mode. OK, so none of this really matters in daily use, but in the company of this hardnosed, hardline group, it's interesting. Someone may know how to coax the 34S into correctly performing this calculation.
Re: WP 34S accuracy is excellent  Walter B  06012012 DBLON 73 ENTER^ 55 y^x 31 RMDR results in 2 :( Not too bad, however, since 73^55 has 103 digits ...
Edit: May be solved this way: DBLON 73 ENTER^ 11 y^x 31 RMDR 5 y^x 31 RMDR resulting in 26 :)
Edited: 1 June 2012, 10:43 a.m.
Re: WP 34S accuracy is excellent  C.Ret  06012012 I don't know how to make it on a WP34S. But, you have to add in your calculators capable list the HP28C and HP28S. In a few minute, the HP 28C/S Advanced Scientific Calculator may print you how exactly 73^55 is and get in the second what is the MOD(73^55,31) :
Edited: 1 June 2012, 10:51 a.m.
Re: WP 34S accuracy is excellent  Eduardo Duenez  06012012 Quote: Some comments: Torture arguments notwithstanding, it is incredibly, egregiously wrong, from an efficient computational perspective, to compute mod(73^55,31) in the form written, by first computing the huge integer 73^55 and then finding its remainder modulo 31. The HP50g, in particular, has a POWMOD command exactly to carry out this calculation efficiently: After setting 31 as the modulus under CAS settings the command POWMOD(73,55) quickly returns the answer (of course the 50g is fast enough that MOD(73^55,31) is also computed instantaneously, but whereas POWMOD(73,1234567890) is still instantaneous, I *somehow doubt* the 50g can handle 73^1234567890. Eduardo
[Edited to remove erroneous reference to an HP50g bug.] Edited: 2 June 2012, 12:16 a.m. after one or more responses were posted
Re: WP 34S accuracy is excellent  Jeff Johnson  06012012 Good info from Walter and C.Ret. In my tests on previous calculators, my results were based on direct keyboard calculation, which is pretty stringent. On that basis, my 28S performed the 73^55, but failed to come up with the correct remainder. ON the 34S, I tried single and double precision as Walter did, with similar results. Breaking the problem up is definitely a good work around, though.
Re: WP 34S accuracy is excellent  Jeff Johnson  06012012 Eduardo, You're absolutely correct  it's a terrible calculation to subject the calculator to, but that actually is the point of the original author of the problem (don't remember who he was)  to test the edges/limits of the hardware and algorithms.
FYI, the modulo function on the 34S (vers 3.1) is RMDR, which is the green function on the division key.
Re: WP 34S accuracy is excellent  C.Ret  06012012 Hi, Yes, I also get the result by direct keyboard calculation.
The exact keyboard sequence on my HP28S was (after turning on HP82240A IRprinter) : 73 [space] 55 [space] 31 [space] LPOWMOD [ENTER]Following this direct keyboard operation to print results SWAP PRMAT SWAP PR1 Of course, LPOWMOD and PRMAT have been previously direct keyboard recorded in ! That what makes the big difference with actual capable calculators who have powerfull builtin facilities. But every thing on an HP28S is direct keyboard input, there is no USB link or SD Card exchange process !
Edited: 1 June 2012, 11:31 a.m.
Re: WP 34S accuracy is excellent  Jeff Johnson  06012012 C.Ret  Thanks, I will check that out. I did my check a couple of years ago on my 28S, but was unaware of the LPOWMOD function. Will revisit it now that I have this knowledge. Thanks for the info.
Re: WP 34S accuracy is excellent  Paul Dale  06012012 There are overflow resistant routines for A times B mod C and A^B mod C in the primality tester. These are not, however, exposed to the user. These could be wrappered up and exposed in integer mode for a couple of hundred bytes of flash. Exposing them in real mode would be more space and there would be overflow risks to deal with.
Re: WP 34S accuracy is excellent  Paul Dale  06012012 I went to some effort to make the modulo reduction accurate across the entire range of single precision. There should be no single precision real value where the trig functions fail bizarrely. The modulo reduction of trig function arguments is done before before converting to radians both to avoid a source of error and to speed up the computation. The normal RMDR function should work well across the whole domain too. Double precision can cause problems due to the extra range provided and getting failures here isn't difficult if you know what to do.
73 ^ 55 = 3039186186495313642719567997295985951911833259711396052783359084390154265029162986660468288337710185657 Rounding this to sixteen significant digits gives:
3.039186186495314e102 The 34S produces this value in single precision mode.
3039186186495314 = 31 * 98038264080494 Therefore, 3.039186186495314e102 modulo 31 is zero.
Re: WP 34S accuracy is excellent  Eduardo Duenez  06012012 Quote:However, the problem as posed is to find mod(73^55,31)=26not to find 73^55. The latter calculation can hardly be asked to be performed by a fixedprecision calculator. I do not know of any nonCAS calculators that can perform modular arithmetic, esp. modular exponentiation, although the 34s has internal algorithms in that regard (per Pauli's post below)which is awesome and useful. Eduardo
[Edit: Of course I mean fixedprecision calculators with *builtin* modular arithmetic operations. Adhoc programs to perform modular arithmetic can be written for basically any programmable, including the 34s as well as Valentin Albillo's HP71B programs below. Now, if only I could reasonably afford a 71B...] Edited: 2 June 2012, 12:12 a.m.
Re: WP 34S accuracy is excellent  Eduardo Duenez  06012012 Quote: Even just exposing them in integer mode would be incredibly useful. The (pseudo)primality tester is a cool application, but there are plenty more uses to be found in elementary number theory, not to mention in cryptography (mostly for didactic purposes, of course, due to word length limitations).
Eduardo
Re: WP 34S accuracy is excellent  Valentin Albillo  06012012 Hi, Jeff: As has already been pointed out in this thread, computing such modular exponentiations is straightforward for any decent programmable calculator or handheld computer using a minimum of memory and time and achieving exact results. For instance, for the HP71B we have (straight from Wikipedia):  first, let's program this simple 2line userdefined function:
 now, let's use it with your particular example and assorted others: >FNM(73,55,31)All of them run in negligible time. The last three demonstrate that 994787 and 974153 are both composite numbers and suggest (but not prove) that 994793 might be a prime number (which it is).
Regards from V.
Re: WP 34S accuracy is excellent  Walter B  06022012 Quote:IMHO the method explained above is a perfectly legal solution to this problem on a fixedprecision calculator  it only requires 'brains on'. So, where's the problem now still? Do you want a function solving it with 'brains off'? Re: WP 34S accuracy is excellent  Eduardo Duenez  06022012 Quote: Walter, I'm not sure what you mean. My claim is that solving the original problem Mod(73^55,31) in a fixedprecision calculator can hardly be expected to be done by computing 73^55 first, then reducing modulo 31. I was the person who originally pointed out the "sane" way to do this is computing the power using modular arithmetic. An algorithm (e.g., "brains on" approach) to solve the original problem can be written for any minimally programmable calculator, since basically all that is needed is the ability to repeatedly multiply numbers <= 30 and take reminders modulo 31 of numbers up to 900. However, the spirit of "torture tests" is to test a calculator's builtin algorithms, and it is in this sense that I interpret the question. A "brains off" solution on the 34s would be made possible by exposing its builtin modular exponentiation functions, and then the 34s would be the *only* fixedprecision calculator capable of passing this torture test.
Eduardo
Re: WP 34S accuracy is excellent  C.Ret  06032012 Good news, I have here two new capable calculators, one SHARP PC1211 Pocket Computer and one Hewlett Packard HP41C Handled Calculator that confirm your full digit computation of 73^55. So we have to add both on Jeff's 'capable calculator list' where already sat HP50g, TI89/92 and HP28C/S.
HP41C Program Listing:
Registers : R(0)  R(19) Full Digits Storage Area of F^P Usage: 73 [ENTER^] 55 [ENTER^] 31 [XEQ][ALPHA]POWMOD[ALPHA]Since full digits store in registers, any further modulo computation of the same F^P can be immediately achieve by entering M value and pressing [R/S]. Computation on a new F^P value need reseting computation by keystrokes: F [ENTER] M [ENTER^] M [ENTER^] [shift][RTN][R/S] Listing obtained on Infrared Printer HP 82240A through IR module.
BASIC program lsting : 10:CLEAR :USING :INPUT "MOD(F^P,M): ENTER F,P,M ?";A,B,C
Usage (in DEF or RUN mode): > RUN[ENTER] Listing obtained on SHARP Printer & Casette Interface CE122. Both algorthims use the same tactis as HP28C/S's LPOWMOD code:
Edited: 3 June 2012, 6:19 a.m.
