OT: uCalc proto - Printable Version +- HP Forums (https://archived.hpcalc.org/museumforum) +-- Forum: HP Museum Forums (https://archived.hpcalc.org/museumforum/forum-1.html) +--- Forum: Old HP Forum Archives (https://archived.hpcalc.org/museumforum/forum-2.html) +--- Thread: OT: uCalc proto (/thread-160891.html) |
OT: uCalc proto - DaveJ - 12-15-2009 Here is the latest uCalc prototype design. Almost laid out, just a few more things to take care of and then it's prototype time :-D
Final specs have turned out to be:
- PIC24FJ256GA106 processor, 256KB/16KB Was hoping to have it in time for xmas, but I've been slack. The front panel will look exactly as shown (but black), unless I change something at the last minute. I'm using a more risky touch panel approach to lower cost and complexity, don't know if it's going to work reliably. Guess the prototype will answer that. In fact the whole thing has now been optimised for the lowest cost. With this new approach I'm actually not limited to 24 keys, but 24 works nicer for technical reasons. Comments before I push the GO button? Dave.
Edited: 15 Dec 2009, 2:46 a.m.
Re: OT: uCalc proto - Saile (Brazil) - 12-15-2009 How would the keyboard alpha be only the letters of A up to Z? Edited: 15 Dec 2009, 3:23 a.m.
Re: OT: uCalc proto - Katie Wasserman - 12-15-2009 Awesome! Is there a matching IR photo transistor, or is the IR LED for use as a remote control only? Why is there tilt sensor, do you have any specific ideas in mind -- or is it just for potential use in gaming?
-Katie
Re: OT: uCalc proto - DaveJ - 12-15-2009 Quote: Originally I had a full IRDA transceiver, but that got trimmed back for cost reasons. No real idea in mind for the tilt sensor, although might be fun for games or menu navigation. I contemplated being brutal and leaving both the features out, but I caved in :)
Dave.
Re: OT: uCalc proto - Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil) - 12-15-2009 Hi, Dave; looks great to me! Please, let us know as soon as you are accepting orders! Congrats!
Luiz (Brazil)
Re: OT: uCalc proto - Walter B - 12-15-2009 Great looking! Assume shifted x-y is ARC or ^-1 ? I'd also vote for STO and RCL replacing the ROLLs as unshifted operations, like Saile did.
Will be interested as soon as you take orders, though your uWatch lies still in my shelf to be assembled ;) Edited: 15 Dec 2009, 4:21 a.m.
Re: OT: uCalc proto - DaveJ - 12-15-2009 Oh what the heck, 4 extra function buttons actually fits. W/X/Y/Z on the top because it just "feels right". Dave.
Edited: 15 Dec 2009, 7:11 a.m.
Re: OT: uCalc proto - Jeff O. - 12-15-2009 Please press GO!
Re: OT: uCalc proto - Walter B - 12-15-2009 @Jeff,
Why do you want to divide first and subtract then? ;)
Re: OT: uCalc proto - Bart (UK) - 12-15-2009 Looks good to me. Freeze the baseline & go.
Re: OT: uCalc proto - Bart (UK) - 12-15-2009 Operator precedence.
Re: OT: uCalc proto - Katie Wasserman - 12-15-2009 Dave, Function buttons are great as is expending the alphabetical keys, but having the buttons above the display makes little sense since your fingers will block the display when you press them. Is it hard to change the PCB layout in order to put the keys below the display? -Katie
Re: OT: uCalc proto - George Bailey (Bedford Falls) - 12-15-2009 Would it make sense to have the W, X, Y, Z keys access diretly to the corresponding stack registers? (Well W standing in for T...)
Re: OT: uCalc proto - BruceH - 12-15-2009 The only thing that I would suggest is to swap plus and divide over since addition and subtraction are likely to be used more often and having them on the edge of the keypad means less chance of getting something else by mistake.
Re: OT: uCalc proto - Chuck - 12-15-2009 Having forgotten most of the previous discussions, I'm assuming this will have complex number capabilities. Does it have an imaginary "i" key, or will that be obtained from the MENU? It'd be nice to have it next to pi instead of the // (but I'm not a programmer.)
CHUCK
Re: OT: uCalc proto - Juergen Keller - 12-15-2009 I second this suggestion. What are the dimensions of the front panel?
Re: OT: uCalc proto - hugh steers - 12-15-2009 i suggest we use the "double point" (pressing "." twice) solution used in the uWatch. this saves a key and keeps complex out of your face if you dont want them.
Re: OT: uCalc proto - Steve Simpkin - 12-15-2009 Quote: A very good suggestion. I would also request that pressing the point twice between numbers could be used to implement a fraction input as used on the HP-33S and HP-35S models.
From the HP-35S User's Guide:
This should not interfere with your suggested use of pressing "." twice (without numbers between the presses) to enter "i".
Re: OT: uCalc proto - DaveJ - 12-15-2009 Quote:
Not just hard, impossible I'm afraid.
Dave.
Re: OT: uCalc proto - DaveJ - 12-15-2009 Quote: Exactly the same as a credit card. That's the entire goal of the project. Why?, just because I can :) Sorry, the operator keys stay where they are, that's the Casio format I like.
Dave.
Re: OT: uCalc proto - DaveJ - 12-15-2009 Quote: It will have anything someone programs into it, just like the uWatch. It will be open source, so will evolve into whatever the community wants. It already has an "I" alpha key.
Dave.
Re: OT: uCalc proto - DaveJ - 12-15-2009 Quote: That is a nice possible benefit if you have a big font. But the screen is capable of displaying 4 lines of at least 16 characters anyway.
Dave.
Re: OT: uCalc proto - Walter B - 12-15-2009 One more remark: I dunno how you did program the hyperbolics - it looks like you have to press SHIFT ARC COS HYP for ACOSH. That would deviate from the expected sequence SHIFT ARC HYP COS. If I got this right, some label rearrangement may be favourable to take care of this.
Re: OT: uCalc proto - DaveJ - 12-15-2009 The labels don't imply any actual entry order. That's up to what you want to do in software.
Dave.
Re: OT: uCalc proto - Walter B - 12-15-2009 So how shall ACOSH be entered?
Re: OT: uCalc proto - Paul Dale - 12-15-2009 I think Walter is suggesting that HYP should be on the 0 key and SIN, COS and TAN on the 1, 2 & 3 keys. Or better, HYP on X-Y, ARC on 0 and SIN, COS and TAN on 1, 2 & 3. Makes the entry order more natural. So to enter ACOSH, you press these keys:
SHIFT X-Y 0 2
- Pauli
Re: OT: uCalc proto - DaveJ - 12-15-2009 Fixed!, as per your suggestion. Dave.
Re: OT: uCalc proto - Michael de Estrada - 12-15-2009 How do you control the display decimal digits? Is fix vs scientific notation automatic?
Re: OT: uCalc proto - DaveJ - 12-15-2009 Anything not directly available on the keypad gets done in the menus. I decided to add base number stuff on the 2nd shift, so no room left for FIX, SCI and other stuff I'm afraid.
Dave.
Re: OT: uCalc proto - Walter B - 12-16-2009 Thanks for your understanding d:-)
Re: OT: uCalc proto - Bart (UK) - 12-16-2009 Even though I'm an engineer (electronics), I'd rather have SCI than <ENG & ENG>, I never use them. I take the value as per SCI setting and mentally convert to milli, micro, pico or units, Kilo, Mega. Re: OT: uCalc proto - DaveJ - 12-16-2009 I find it abhorrent to have to do a mental calculation or conversion after a calculator has given you a result, kind of defeats the purpose of having a calculator I think. If I'm using a calculator then I expect it to give me the result I expect. So I use the ENG key daily, although I hate calcs with those fixed ENG modes, I want the choice of when to convert to ENG display and when not. SCI and FIX are more "mode" like than ENG in this instance, so don't deserve a primary key IMO. But each to their own! Also remember, it's trivial to make a stick on overlay to have any key layout you like.
Dave.
Re: OT: uCalc proto - Bart (UK) - 12-16-2009 If you do the mental calc daily it becomes trivial, order of magnitude convertion is soooo easy anyway :). Re: OT: uCalc proto - hugh steers - 12-16-2009
maybe you shake it and it changes the result display format!
Re: OT: uCalc proto - Bart (UK) - 12-16-2009 Brilliant idea - 6 extra inputs on the tilt sensor!! :)
Re: OT: uCalc proto - Dave Shaffer (Arizona) - 12-16-2009 Turn it over and it turns itself off?! All sorts of possibilities here.
Re: OT: uCalc proto - Martin Pinckney - 12-16-2009 Quote:Well said!
That is one reason I am so drawn to the 48 series - the units management, at least in theory, makes mental checking of the result less necessary. If only it weren't so difficult to learn ...
Re: OT: uCalc proto - Bart (UK) - 12-16-2009 More like right side down does ENG> and lefgt side down does <ENG. :)
Re: OT: uCalc proto - DaveJ - 12-16-2009 Quote: Yes, it's trivial, but that doesn't help you on those bad days when your mind goes, err, wonky. Before you know it your Mars probe crashes into the planet :->
Dave.
Re: OT: uCalc proto - DaveJ - 12-16-2009 Quote: It's mainly in there for those reasons you *can't* think of right now! Random number generator for starters. Menu scrolling, mode switching, games, a crude spirit level sensor...
Dave.
Re: OT: uCalc proto - Walter B - 12-16-2009
Quote:IIRC, that wasn't due to wonky minds but due to stubborn minds keeping wonky units, wasn't it? d;-) Re: OT: uCalc proto - Mark Henderson - 12-16-2009 I have an HP-21 emulator on iPhone (GO-21) which uses shake to CLx the machine - kinda cool!
Re: OT: uCalc proto - PatrickR - 12-16-2009 How do the buttons work? Clicky membranes? If so, they should be easily swapable. I have had such clicky membraned break after not so much wear, and that mostly means tossing the object in the bin.
Re: OT: uCalc proto - DaveJ - 12-16-2009 Quote: They are capacitive touch sensors, so nothing to wear out apart from the silkscreen PCB overlay. It's the only risky part of the design, it actually may not work reliably or at all, that's what the first prototype is designed to suss out. If I'm lucky it'll work first go and I should have something close to a finished product, if not then it's tweaking time, or on to plan B.
Dave.
Re: OT: uCalc proto - DaveJ - 12-16-2009 Thunderbirds are GO! I should have a physical proto just after new year. If it doesn't work as intended then I'll quietly slither away... :->
Dave.
Re: OT: uCalc proto - Bart (UK) - 12-17-2009 Mistakes I've come across in aerospace equipment (which although not fully certified, were in advanced stages of development, delivered for fitment to flight test aircraft): Re: OT: uCalc proto - Bart (UK) - 12-17-2009 So you believe everything your calculator spits out, not even caring to do a quick mental check as to the order of magnitude? (That's what you seem to be saying).
Edited: 17 Dec 2009, 5:27 a.m.
Re: OT: uCalc proto - DaveJ - 12-17-2009 Quote: That's what everyone says when this subject is bought up, but it always misses the point. The calculator is a calculating tool, if it doesn't easily give you the result you expect from it, formatted the way you want it, then it's not as good a tool as it could be. If you have to do extra conversion in your head then your chance of error is greater, regardless of how easy it is. Mentally checking your result and knowing what to expect etc, is really a separate issue.
Quote:
Sure, but that's not the point. BTW, a good engineering calc will have a primary ENG key, so it's only one key press. And when you get used to hitting it subconsciously it really is a valuable function you don't want to live without. But YMMV.
Quote:
I will keep the ENG keys, thanks, the joy of being the product designer :-P
Dave. Edited: 17 Dec 2009, 6:30 a.m.
Re: OT: uCalc proto - Frank Rottgardt - 12-17-2009 Will there be an additional protection for the display to reinforce the calculator and making it more dust-proof and scratch-resistant?
Re: OT: uCalc proto - DaveJ - 12-17-2009 Quote: I'm afraid not. Unless you know someone who can custom cut quality thin (0.5mm) scratch resistant mineral glass cheaply? I'd be very interested to know of anyone who does.
Dave.
Re: OT: uCalc proto - Bart (UK) - 12-17-2009 Quote:And this part of the thread started because I merely said ENG format is not MY kind of format. (The mental thinking bit was only a justification, not the point in itself). But I concede because I understand there is a large contingent out there that does use it. That's the reason you should keep it on there - not just because you're the product designer. As I said early on in this thread, I'm happy with what I see, let's see some hardware. Quote:A statement which you negate by: Quote:How can you expect anything if you haven't done some mental reasoning? By the way, in another post in this thread I mention errors in equipment, I found those errors because whilst doing on-aircraft checking (on ground of course) other equipment dependent on the information were reacting, and whilst seemingly correct, I was always asking myself "is this more or less what I was expecting?". Some were obvious (wrong direction) others more subtle (over or under reaction). Re: OT: uCalc proto - DaveJ - 12-17-2009 Quote: Not the actual quantitative number but the *formatting* of the number. Like I said, as an example you might get pretty annoyed if your calc always gave you 0.000000123 instead of scientific notation. Just like as an engineer I get annoyed sometimes when I don't get my result in engineering notation, because that's the *formatting* I've come to expect and work more naturally with, even if it is a small difference I can easily convert mentally. But note that I don't always want engineering notation, which is why I like my ENG key and having the choice, instead of an ENG mode which forces it down my throat when I don't want it.
Dave.
Re: OT: uCalc proto - BruceH - 12-18-2009 Quote: Noooooo!!!
Imagine: a long calculation, put the calc down on the desktop a bit too hastily and the answer gone before you can write it down. :-(
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