HP Forums

I am a structural engineer, and I am considering replacing my 41CX with a 49G or 48GX. Which of these two is the best choice?

Are you a power user or just want a scientific similiar to your 41 (but with less power, like I asked, Power user?) I suggest a 32sII.

If your a power user, both the 48 or 49 have many times the capability of a 41. I feel you would probably be happier with a 48GX (or save $40 and buy a G+, and even save more since any xpansion cards cost $80 or more) The main reason is where the enter key is located (yeah the lower corner of a 49 is more convient if you are just learning RPN, but since you have a 41, you probably have a natural tendency to look to the middle of the Calc for the enter key). The Hp48G+ is less than $100 at most office supply stores. You will also get a better manual.

The Hp49 has 512K RAM (5 X the amount of a 48 G+ or GX) and 1 Meg of flash ROM (you could also load Flash apps as well as upgrade your OS) Could is the word. You might not do any of these things, but the option is ever present. The keyboard doesn't compare to the 48 (48 is same as 41 type keys)

A 48GX can be expanded past the 49 with RAM cards. However the 49 has optimized many functions to be faster than a 48, but for what I use I have haven't noticed any significant differences. If you use matrix methods for solutions I understand there is significant differences though.

If you want or need CAS buy the 49 since you will get this without having to load and give up RAM. CAS is available for 48 but takes 80K RAM to load.

I have not been a power user in the past, but I am in a new position that will require me to become one.

Since I have had my current calculator for about 17 years, cost is not large factor in the decision.

I am concerned about the layout of the key board, hopefully I can become effiecient with a new layout. I have found a large picture of the 49G but not the 48 GX to see a layout of the keyboard.

My main concern is which model will be a better tool for the next 20 years. From the information that you were kind enough to give me it sounds like I should lean towards the 49G. Knowing that I will need to retrain myself to use a totally new keyboard layout.

Thank you for taking the time to respond.

I'd recommend the 48GX. Reasons:

1. The 49 comes with much less documentation, a big mistake with such a complex calc, IMHO. The 48GX manual is adequate, especially if you also buy the Advanced User's Reference Manual.

2. The 49 is much more algebraic-orientated. RPN seems to be provided as something of an afterthought.

3. Anyone with an engineering background is likely to be unimpressed with the design and build quality of the 49, especially when compared with the classics and the 41. Almost everyone agrees the keyboard is a disaster.

Best,

--- Les [http://www.lesbell.com.au]

Please see article #144 in the Articles Forum. That's an opinion piece I wrote about the 49G.

-EM

Hi,

sorry, but price, keyboard-layout etc. is not the main thing here. For me there is one MAJOR argument for the 49:

SPEED !!!!

Nearly all functions are much more faster on the 49

Best regards

Andreas

I think Les [04.03.01 @ 20:03] has an important point in his reason #3 -- essentially, what is the unit you are comfortable with (i.e., the most effective with)?

From what I read, both you and I are in a similar situation -- muscled through college with the 41 series while always keeping an eye open to determine if there is a better solution for our work demands (I'm a structural engineer as well). I currently have access to all three (I own both a 41cv/cx and a 48gx, and I have been using the 49g off and on for the last four months) -- yet, I find I still grab the 41 in most situations.

As a structural engineer, you can very easily find yourself huddled over many pages of calcs on a daily basis, or you can be a manager of the huddled, basically verifying these calcs -- I don't know which one you expect to spend most of your time in. I do know that if I'm at the office and some impressive computations are developing, the ol' desktop is the workhorse (with one of the three above next to me, of course).

An important distinction may be what you find yourself doing day-to-day at work. If you are involved in some sort of higher-order math functions (FFT, complex graphing, non-linear programming), I would think the 48 (conventional layout/look/function) or 49 (pure efficiency/speed) would be the choice (if not for the graphing functions alone). Personally, I don't see myself using the HP for those tasks -- my desktop and our networkable/accessible files and spreadsheets are for those.

But, the differentiation to be made here is what you are bringing to the field, remote office, or simply a client meeting/working session -- every time I reach for the 41 (no question) -- maybe its due to the comfort level, maybe the speed of solution I can get using it. The 41 is versatile for our needs (struct/math/stat/mem modules + programmable if necessary), very unassuming and portable (i.e. 'pocket' calculator), and amazingly has survived (personally) many extreme conditions over the years (190' drop into sandpit … ?). Plus, you can still buy, fix, replace essentially everything on every model available.

[As an engineer geek, I often find it interesting to notice what each employee's choice of a computational weapon may be … and I am often surprised at the simplicity of some (most) of the choices. Case-in-point, our chairman repetitively points out (jokingly) his use of the $4.99 Wal-Mart calculators by 'choice' -- due to the fact that he usually looses them weekly. Food for thought …]

Good luck!
Bryan

……………………………………………………..

rants:

41 --

only one line display (obviously no on-board graphing capabilities)

expandable/portable/quick customization to situation

(… you all ready own one …)

48--

conventional display (i.e. registers make sense to a 15 year hp41 veteran)

wide array of available menus and solutions for many different engineering problems encountered

(…is it me, or does the 48 seem slow …)

49--

display does take some getting use to

RPN does seem to be an afterthought

the algebraic display convention can be a bit overwhelming

vast programming/programming capability (basically HP's latest and 'greatest')

definitely proves the 'power' in a show-an-tell situation

I really don't have a feel for how long it would take to get use to that crazy keyboard (and that alone can get a bit awkward in a client meeting with answers waiting/eyes watching …)

……………………………………………………

I have both, I actually bought the '49 first - got fed up with it and then bought the '48 and learnt how to use it via the much better manual. I would suggest the 48G+/GX for 95% of your tasks. The 49G IS faster but only after you have entered the data (for which it is slower). If you need the CAS or are a power user wanting every ounce of computational speed then the '49 would be prefered.

In practical terms the '48 not only has a better keyboard for speed (the 49's feels squishy after using the '48) but it is also much easier to read because of the better colors and larger text. The HP49's use of small red and blue text on a metalic blue background means that it is hard to read in some lighting conditions. This is also true of the HP49's display which does have higher contrast but is hidden behind a shiny screen cover. If you will be entering alot of mixed text and numbers the '49 is better as the arrow keys are not used for letters making editing easier.

In terms of a long life the '48 seems much stronger. Although I have not dropped either calc I would expect the '49 to break more easily than the '48.

Unfortunatly both the '48 and '49 are not as 'quick and dirty' to program as the '41 and you will have to learn structured programming to use either effectively (this can be educational and is not bad practice but is another hurdle the '41/'42 user must jump). The HP49 manual is USELESS for learning to program, the HP48 manual is 1e9 times better. If you buy the HP49G and want to program it I would wager you will have to buy the 48 manual and advance programming book.

Upgradable operating software for the 49G is a mixed blessing. The 48's operating system is stable and well known, the same can't be said for the '49.

Can you find a shop that sells both? If so you might be able to try both and make your mind up this way. Sadly this kind of shop has been sacrificed on the alter of low prices.

You say that money is not an issue and you are looking to have a calc for the next 10+ years. Could I suggest you get an HP48G+ and learn how to use it, then if you feel you realy do need the '49 you could buy that at a later date and use the '48 as a back up.

I don't have neither a 48 nor a 49 but talking for analogy I have a 20S and a 6S solar. I think the 20S is the 48 generation and the 6S is 49. The 20S has a keyboard with the HP feeling (it's not a 41, but has a nice touch), full labeled but clear and easy to read. The 6S has rubber keys (the 49 way, or perhaps is the 49 wich has the keys the 6S way) I don't like. And the labels?, on the 6S solar are readables(metal background) but the 6S sells in a nice dark metallic blue that makes unreadable almost everything wich is not on the key. Has the "colour design team" at HP tried to use a 6S?. I suppose is the same for the 48 - 49 series.

I made the transition from TI to HP with the 49G and you're right, the manual for the 49 is incredibly bad. // After considering either buying a 48 and/or 48 manuals to 'get up to speed', I did a little research and discovered a pair of outstanding manuals on the web. You can find them at greatunpublished.com. If memory serves, they're about $25 each, and you can get electronic versions sent to you as e-mail attachments for free after you purchase the texts in hard-copy. They've made learning and using the 49G a much more pleasant experience....

Here's the title:
Science and Engineering Mathematics with the HP49G, by Gilberto E. Urroz (ISBN 1-58898-043-X for the first one)

Good luck with your decision.
Keep in mind, if you're going to want to download software off the net, the 48 software is often not compat. with the 49. The 'tried and true' 48 has a history you may benefit from that the 49 does not.

~ Bryan

Okay, at the risk of being stoned here ... does it have to be an HP calculator? I own an HP48, and it is a nice calculator in many ways, but because it can do so much, it is often very difficult to use. And it is _SLOW_. Very slow, in fact. I haven't used an HP49 for a great deal of time, but the keys are horribly squishy--they feel worse than a $15 Casio scientific calculator. The TI89 can do RPN (with an add-on programme), has a nicer display than the HP48/49, and has most of other the features of the HP49 too. You might want to consider a TI calc as a possible alternative.

Has TI done anything about their QA? Every one I've ever had lost its keyboard inside a year. 'Course, that's what you get for buying a TI, I know, but I still figured (wrongly) they could manage a little better than that.

Not that the 49's keyboard is anything to write home about.

I got a 48SX when they came out. Wrote a resident disassembler for it. Had lots of hacking fun with it. Find it completely impractical for a day-to-day calculator.

I'd like to believe that there's something better out there, even if it doesn't say HP on it.

A 48SX feels slow compared to the 48G series. The 48G is just snappier than the 48S. I have both and always felt my 48s was slow, even for regular work and button pushing.

I've had the same problem with Ti also. Their newer calcs appear better, but I never used one on a regular basis after switching over to Hp. I've owned Casio and Sharp and never had a keyboard problem with them.

If you are looking for a daily calculator, I suggest the Hp32. It is a much smaller calc than the graphics and can hold several useful programs for daily use. As with this line of Hp's, still have Hp feel and look.

Unlike others here, I never really found the 48SX to be that slow. Its impracticality for me is due entirely to its size.

Were I looking for an all-around decent calculator, I'd still probably just pay whatever it costs on eBay to get a 42S in decent condition. My major gripe with the 32S is the 1-line display.

Point noted and agreed with. However, since the 42 is no longer readily available, I hide mine at home (sorta defeats its use, since it is much more portable than a bulky 48)

I have stated many times that the 42s is the best calculator Hp ever made just because it is portable and has the capabilities it has.

Why Hp hasn't developed an upgrade to it instead of flocking to the graphics bandwagon is probably just assinine arrogance of what true professionals want and catering to a student market that is dictated by Ti.

Other capable manufactors have also turned up their noses at such a venture also (I know, I tried, I at one time worked for such a firm and was politely kicked out of the VP's ofice of R & D).

The capability to make a 42+ with a serial port and 30 to 100 K RAM is readily available. Hp doesn't want to rob sales of the precious 39, 48, 49 line. What a bunch of Horse baloney. What is realy happining is peoply live with their 41c or 42s until it dies then 50% buy Ti as often as an Hp graphics. Or suffer with the lower powered Hp32. Most do not buy the Hp42s on ebay, but when they do, they pay a premium because there is no other comparable calculator available, period...

If you want to try these out, there are excellent emulators for the 48S, 48G and 49 at www.hpcalc.org
The 49 manuals, such as they are, are available free from HP in pdf format.
I own a 48S, but at work I use the 48S emulator for convenience, since I am usually using the computer anyway. Press a button and the calculator appears.
The hpcalc site will also link to an interesting 41 site, with a 41 simulator (V41) and ALL the 41 programs, documentation and articles you ever wanted.

Thank you that is an excellent suggestion, I will give that a try.

I would like to thank everyone who responded for the information. I am going to try a 48G+. Who knows maybe I will like it enough to be able to let go of my 41CX.

Thank You