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Is the only difference between the 17b and 17bii that the 17bii has the added feature of using algrebraic or rpn?

Hi;

There are three new features beyond RPN:

the RND (rounding) feature, over the RCL key; MODES menu (over the DSP key) adds ALG, RPN and DBL menu labels; softkey [DBL] in the MODES menu, for double space printing.

I bought an HP17BII last year and it came with the original HP17B Manual del Proprietário (Spanish) and the Cómo usar la NPI (How ot use RPN), where new features are discussed.

Hope this helps.

Luiz C. Vieira - Brazil

Luiz-

would the variable height stack (as with the 19BII) be a new feature as well on the 17BII vs the 17B?

Hello, Christoff; howdy?

Yeap! Both HP19BII ahd HP17BII stack share the same shrinking/stretchening (Is it correct?) abilities. As the HP17B was algebraic-only, you may consider all HP17BII's RPN and stack-related features as new.

Hope this answers your question.

BTW, I cannot understand how come the HP12C prevails against both HP17BII and (mostly) HP19BII. Please, don't blame me yet, I take the HP12C as a great calculator (and all financial dealers as well), but both HP17BII and HP19BII are amazing... Well, I'm only an engineer, what should I know about financial calcs?

Best regards.

Luiz C. Vieira - Brazil

The 12c has a cult following among financial wizzards it is the industry standard.

One big reason is that the 12c has each function on a key...no long complicated menus to navigate through to find a function...you can SEE it on the keyboard.

Another big reason is that many financial people were taught on the 12c back in the early 1980s at school and these are the people who are in management today who teach / suggest the 12c to the new people working for them today.

I consider the key-per-function argument as very strong. I can't stand having to wade through menus looking for functions that are needed.

Before anyone suggests that the 41c, 42S, etc. needed menus or catalogs, it's not the same...These calculators have many, many more functions on the keyboard than the 17b/17bII calculators do...AND they had the ability to make custom keyboards or assignments...

The 17B/17BII is way too menu oriented for me.

My 2 cents.
Gene

Hah! Gene, I prefer the menus, have only to point to the 32S _vs._ 32Sii. The latter has lots of functions, all on keys (I think), and the keyboard is quite cluttered. The former has (softkey) menus, seems (IMHO) easier to use (but as they say, YMMV).

Hehehe,

and I like the keyboard of the 32SII! :)

seriously, having both the 17BII and the 12C- if I was doing strictly financial stuff within the power of the 12c, I would probably prefer it. I tend to prefer the 17BII right now because of the solver, the printing, and the layout (I'm much more trained to the pioneer keyboard, probably because I'm only 32)

Which reminds me- Gene, is your book still available? prefer selling personally or via amazon-borg.com ?

I have both a 12C and a 17BII and although the 12C sits on my desk at work and sees daily use, I prefer the 17.

I like the menu design of the 17, however I do question why the keyboard is so sparce (so few keys even have a shifted function!) Perhaps a happy medium exists; if some of the more common functions were made "shifted" functions, then there'd be less of a need to use the menu system.

My 2 cents (Canadian)
B.

I'm not sure what the beef is with menus, myself.

the HP65 has plenty of shifted functions. and the 55, and take a gander at the 34 if you think the 32SII is full of 'keyboard glyphics'

the 41CX has a fairly paltry looking 3 functions per key, but wait! there's another function set on the back of the calc.....

the 17BII is so lightly done as to appear to be incomplete- a bit of an over-reaction by marketing thinking that the appearance of simplicity would sell machines?

any way you look at it, it's a bizarre argument against the 32SII and a bizarre design for the 17BII :)

If Hp had just tossed in three (six) simple trig functions in an extra menu, the 17bii would have sold much more. It would have been a really nice alternative to an Hp32s since it would have had lots more RAM to make up for any other features it lacked. As it is, it is mearly a business calculator, and while I don't feel as hostile towards them as Paul B.(I believe Paul feels they are only good for parts for scientifics), I don't cry when one is lost to the world either.