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Full Version: So, is this a new high for HP-65?
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HP-65 sells for $2000+

I wonder if we will see this relisted? It looks like booklung did not win but I wonder if the winner is real. If not, she will likely just sell it to booklung anyway.

Well, there is little doubt that this buyer was created to sell even more expensive to booklung...

By the way I'm amazed that this calc, only because it has the original box in addition, sold for more than 5 times more than what I paid...

Weird...

If it turns out that this high bidder was not real (listen up booklung), he should not agree to pay more than a few percent above the previous high of $1200.

That is what the bid would have been had the higher bidder not bid .

Well, that's not impossible...

I'm amazed...

As far as I can see the scope for fraud on Ebay is massive. That is why it is important to stick to your own limit and not get involved with any deal that looks at all fishy - however desirable the item is. This item should be re-listed or sold for the LOWEST 'other' bid if the top bidder pulls out otherwise the second highest bidder doesn't know if they have been taking part in a false bid process. I wonder if the person who pulled out will get negative feedback?

However if the guy in second place is happy to pay his top bid price then good luck to them.

What if the High bidder is a fraud (0 feedback) but the seller gives a positive feedback anyway.

Then holds onto the item a month or so and relists. Can even clain the going price for such an item is $2,000-. Just drove up the value without ever a legitmate sale.

Ebay saves me time on my calc shopping, but I don't think it ever saved me money.

I've received an email from the seller saying something like:

I found a second one just like the first one. To save me time and money listing it, I'm willing to sell it to you for ...

The price is sometimes the high bid, or a little less, sometimes even half.

This makes me assume that the high bidder or possibly even the high two or three bidders are the person running the auction.

I think you'd find that there is not as much shill bidding as you think. More likely he has more than one item, like he says.

However, I think it is quite misleading to suggest that you just "found another" when they probably had it all along.

By the way, you can do a little research and detect shill bidding. Look at past sales, check for same bidders on completely different items. While it may be easy to get 2nd and 3rd account, I think that it is rare to have hundreds of extra accounts.

So, if you look at past auctions and see a pattern of same bidders, regardless of auction items, you may have found a shill bidder.

ANOTHER TYPE OF BIDDER

There is another kind of bidder that is equally OFFENSIVE. I have noticed that OFTEN, if I have outbid certain other bidders, that almost immediately I am outbid by the same guy. For instance, if I outbid "xxx", then "yyy" will almost immediately outbid me. "yyy" is always a low feedback bidder. Doesn't matter what the item is, "xxx", followed by me, followed by "yyy".

There are a few people that have bogus accounts (I believe) just for the purpose of running up the bid on someone that has outbid them. That is another reason that last second bidding is a good way to go.

False bidding and then selling to the highest real bidder could also have the following effects (not all at the same time):

Pushes up the 'going' price

Lots of possitive feedback

Hidden multiple sales

An apparent 'non-sale' so free re-list for the next identical item

Completely fictitious sales (when the seller buys there own non exsistant item) to keep the prices high or so a slightly worse item can then be sold at a high price because 'one only a bit better sold for $x'.

Ebay does state very clearly not to get involved in private (i.e. non top bidder) buying and selling but the temptation for both sides can be there.

What I'm saying here is only what COULD be done, I have no evidence what-so-ever of it actually happening with HP calculators or any other items. I'm sure most people using Ebay are honest (which is my experiance).

I suppose the problem us HP'ers have is that it's easy to get caught up in buying great calculators and forget some of the items are reasonably common. We only have ourselves to blame (including myself) for bidding up prices, if everyone stopped buying them on ebay for a month or so I'm sure the prices would come down. Rising prices feed on themselves until the bubble bursts. I have enough HP calcs for now so will only buy them when they appear in local junk shops for low money.

I know because I reported that many and ebay terminated them. I eventually decided that he had more time for this than I did and stopped tracking him. He was amazingly easy to track. He could have avoided my methods with a little thought.

The proper thing to pay when the high bidder bows out and you are the second highest bidder is one bid increment over the third highest bidder (assuming he is not the same as the high bidder). This is what you would have paid if the high bidder never bid. If the seller won't agree to this amount then pass on the offer.

was that the high bidder didn't bow out. Therefore the "market value" of this supposedly just discovered second copy is supposedly established by the top bid on the other one.

I always answer that my top bid is still my top bid.

I use a sniping bot. This bot is automatically set to bid on an item within the last 9 seconds of an auction up the max bid that I specify. This bot enters my bid on my behalf when I am not even on the computer. I have had a great deal of success with it. The website for the guy (or guys) running this is at www.vrane.com. You just create an id/password. Then, at some point when you've made your auction/bid decision, you go to vrane (a.k.a. Amherst Robots), login (as a sniper) and follow the directions! If you can program an HP, you can do this, and best of all it's free!! Check it out, you'll be amazed at your results!

I put all my bids through this process. It has the added benefit of preventing you from convincing yourself that you're willing to pay more (than you really are) through marginal increases over the duration of the auction. You name your price to yourself and trust the process. It also helps prevent you from losing auctions due to the same emotional reasons in the other bidder's camp, not to mention basically removing the effects of schill bidding on your pocket book! You name your price and you don't disclose until the last minute, all with out even having to be present at the auction's close!

Give it a whirl, I swear by it!

An experience from Denmark:

I saw an HP-34C in a danish markedplace homepage for about $10,- and phoned the seller at once. He claimed, that it was allready sold, but the buyer was to pick it up as he was driwing from Germany to Copenhagen, where the HP-34C was located.
He also told me, that a great number of interested prospective buyers had phoned him, and he was very surprised about how popular this (to him, at least at this moment) worthless calculator was.

Well - hoping that the german buyer wouldn't spend a whole day in his car, I phoned the seller again some days later. Stille the same answer... Hmmm...

After a week or so, I phoned him once again, and he told me, that the calculator was sold.

Okay - I thought, to bad...

But some few days later I saw an auction for an HP-34C on the same homepage, and clicked to check the phonenumber, wich of cause turned out to be the same as the former sellers.

So:
- either the seller had two (TWO/2) pcs. HP-34C in the exactly same condition, packed with the same accessories

Or:
- he made a clone of the calculator that was picked up in Copenhagen by the German guy

Or:
- the seller has the worlds only real 3D Xeror machine...

Very mysterious.......

Johnny Bjoern Rasmussen
Have some nice hollidays

BTW: I did not win the auction, but made a bid thoug... ;-)

If the seller does not agree, then be suspicious. It may be a shill bid, to run the price up.

If the High Bidder backs out (according to the seller) or he has a 2nd copy, NEVER pay more than a small percentage higher than the 3rd high person (not 3rd high bid).

Think about this:

The original HP-65 sold new for $795. The one on eBay sold for over 2.5 times that!

And the HP-67 that sold originally for $450 sold for nearly 3 times that on eBay.

I'm convinced it's the box. :-)

Anyone have an idea what the original $795 asking price is in today's deflated dollars? I wonder if it's even selling for "more" than it originally cost?

Only to happy to oblige, Paul. At a 4% inflaition rate, it would sell for $2200 after 26 years. A higher rate interest rate would of course even push this rate higher. A simple TVM calculation on a 17B would tell you that.

Now that I subtly mentioned a 17B, I want to ask you a question about memory upgrades as I know you have performed a few. I plan on upgrading my 42s, but another individual loaned me a 17 to practice with. I have made the RAM chip swap, and have redid the jumpers, but I still see only 7K RAM. In fact, if I redo the jumpers to original, the calc fails to turn on. Is this calculators upper RAM amount fixed by some internal ROM setting as to not see a larger amount of RAM (Ie like the HP38G vs 48G, the 38 cannot be expanded past 32K vs a 48G can handle whatever you can squeeze onto the board)?

I can contact you later via e-mail, but that option won't be available to me for a few days. If you have any ideas, I am out here listening.

Thanks,

Ron Ross

For inflation figures in general, go to: http://www.bls.gov/cpi/home.htm

Try the BLS "Inflation Calculator" or look at "Annual Percent Changes From 1913 to Present" (ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/special.requests/cpi/cpiai.txt) for monthy inflation data since 1913.