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Full Version: Have you seen how much 65's are reaching on ebay ?
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I just can't beleive this...

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1309694005 and

I have seen this ...

There are 3 calcs in my collection missing. One of them ist the HP65. Here I have the possibility to by a NIB one. In my opinion there is no second chance to by a NIB HP65. How much should I in your opinion pay ???

Andreas

BTW this means that I have to sell about 10 to 15 calculators of my stock ...

Well... I just don't know... I think that $300 is a pretty good price for such a calc...

do you really think that a box and some manuals are worth 2 or 3 times more than the calc itself ?

BTW there is a 67 also NIB that is reaching $500+... this is incredible...

And this HP67 http://cgi.ebay.de/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1307247724 is almost as expensive as a Curta.

Frank.

To have a calc in mint condition is certainly a good feeling. Unfortunately, every know-nothing clown with an old beat up Hp will now put a $200 reserve on non-working junk and feel justified in doing so. That is the pity of these auctions. Is the Hp65 NIB worth what Tom has already bid. To Tom and someone else who he had to outbid, it must be. Me?, I am happy with a working model, but that is what the market is.

Hp's not making any more of the classics. Actually if the auction did not go any higher, Tom is buying it somewhat discounted, since NEW, it was almost $800.

Funny reasoning, and it is a high price.

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1307247724

Wow.

Wow.

Wow.

Gene

I just can't beleive that...

Seems our collections are getting more and more value, isn't it ?

The buyer bought from the same seller on ebay :
- 15C NIB : $355
- 32E NIB : $82.5
- 48 math pac : $52.5

these prices are above all expectations... (may not fot he 32E)

Or this guy want a better collection than Dave's, or they ntend to artificially raise prices on ebay...

I really cant figure out why Curtas sell for as much as they do. At any given time there are usually five or more listed on Ebay. Hardly rare at all. You may have so wait a couple of weeks to find an HP65 in any condition. Hoping to find just one Mint-in-box HP65 in a year is really pushing it.... I sold one several years ago for over $1000 (before Ebay). Mint-in-box HP67 machines show up MUCH more often... 1300 bucks does seem a bit excessive. I bagged one a few months back for less than $300.

You will not get that one. My guess is that it will go for between $1500 and $2000.

Not sure if it's worth it, but that's what it will sell for.

wants it, he gets it. I wonder what his bid actually was. All we see is the winning amount. I bet it was $1500+

Hi,

I cannot get the point here. What is a "good" price for such a calc? The price of the parts inside (diodes, transitors etc) is about $20. On ebay you can get compareable calcs (with same functionality - no RPN of course ) for this price !
So why you think its price should be $300 ?

Lets think about the value of this device - the value for MY collection (NOT yours !!!). Why do YOU think I should not pay $3000 for the last missing classic in my collection ?

To ALL: Is there someone who will sell me a HP65 for $300 ??? Please feel free to send me an email

Best regards

Andreas

Well, diodes and transistors is not all, you need to pay for the technology inside... otherise just take some of this very pure Rhinbe sand and you have potentially the not developed yet Pentium 9 !

Andreas, you pay what you want for anything you want, I was just making the point that $3000 even for the last missing peice of your collection is to my eyes quite exaggerated, but this is onmy my personal opinion and I'm the only one involved in that !

I have read that the legal definition of "value" (I guess in the U.S.) is "what a thing will bring" I.E. whatever someone is willing to pay for it. The best working example I have seen is the way Texas establishes the value of real estate for taxation.

I bet Mike D. will be right on this one. The winner of the $1329 HP-67 will get the NIB HP-65. It's just a question of the final price. We've seen this fellow operate on eBay: if he wants it, he usually gets it. Money does not appear to be an obstacle.

For comparision, in 1998 I bought a NIB HP-65 on eBay, never used, with all the accessories plus the Nav pac, Stat pac, and Financial pac (all NIB). The only piece missing was the cardboard box for the 65. I think I paid $390. And I bet others have paid less that I did for an HP-65.

Hi,

>And I bet others have paid
>less that I did for an HP-65
>
Yes, maybe...

I got my new-in-plastic field case HP-65 last year from my boss for free;-)
With additional Finance Pac...

Maybe because some more time ago, I repaired his HP-41 which had a bad pcb contact.

Regards,

Raymond

That's probably a good idea for real estate where each piece is unique and everyone has different opinions about the best "location location location" bit.

I think it gets a little strained when you're talking about mass produced items that may differ only in a serial number yet have prices that are 5 or 10 times different.

Is any one person's idea of value "right" in that case? Is it an average? Is the value the list of all prices paid? Do we just settle for personal values that are wildly different?

While the "legal" value of these devices may be low, the subjective and even symbolic values are what drive these prices high.

In fact, for a large share of the Earth population, the calculators we talk about have very little value. But since there are very few NIB units, the collectors, while few, are enough to make such items appear scarce.

How do you define the "value" of an autographed baseball ball? It is the same for a baseball fan than for a person from a country where baseball is not even popular? Why a Picasso painting is worth much more than a piece of canvas and some ounces of paint? (I have no problem thinking about some models of HP calcs as art objects)

In plain economical terms, if someone is paying that much for an old calculator and if such person is not someone who enjoys completing a collection or appreciating the art or symbolic value of such an object; then the only rational explanation is that such person, while not interested in the object itself, have concluded that someday someone will pay more than he did to get it.

Just a quote from the spanish poet Antonio Machado:

Todo necio

confunde valor con precio.


(Every fool mistakes price for value)

(It's worth whatever you feel it's worth.) This tends to annoy people when they ask "what's it worth" but then telling them what I think it's worth annoys a lot of people too. Sometimes I would tell someone what I felt something was worth and they'd complain that all the ebay auctions for that model were already higher than that with days to go.

My HP collection may have cost me less than individual calculators on ebay but I've also probably put more work than average into obtaining them. I think it's more fun to track down cheapies than to pay more than the world's second biggest spender. Sometimes that means going weeks without finding anything though. It just depends on what motivates you.

For me I enjoy trying to bring a dead unit back to life. If I can, and already have that particular model thAt I am working on, I usually sell it and use the money to buy something that I don't already have (It's kind of like monopoly money to me). For me it is the only way I can add to my collection. I'd go broke trying to collect HP calcs at ebay prices when I have a wife and two kids to support. I'd have a real hard time explaining to the wife why I/we need that HP-97S....

Yes, I too bought a near mint (oring repair) HP 65 two years ago from one collector and after having about 6mo sold to another for about the same as I gave, which was around $300 is seems like. Only had a 25 and 29c in the 70's and some ti's. I wonder what the HP's will be worth in the future, when all of us that used them or wanted them in college are gone. New yonger collectors are appearing, but seem to be in the minority, will this number grow. Will a unit like the HP 65 with it's special fame, or even the HP 35 and with fewer available with its fame become worth more or less? As you all know, most are not nearly to their original 70's value inflation adjusted, or how about stock market adjusted (was it '74 when the Dow crossed 1000?)

It's the people you see bidding on day ONE of a 7 day auction and bid, say $100, on an item they know darn well is going to sell for much, much more than that.

There are too many people that will say, "if it's worth $100 to them, it's worth $102 to me."

Fact is, it's these early bidders that run the price up. These early bidders NEVER win auctions for anything that is desireable.

I couldnt agree more! I also see people bid just so they are able to track the auction without ever intending on buying. Bid early and lose! I'm sure there are many no cost or low cost products out there to track auctions without bidding.

Am I the only one to think the HP museum itself is the major responsible for the high price commanded by classic HP calculators?

Let me explain: this site has allowed me to have a real appreciation of HP calculators, that honestly I didn't have before, at least not to that extent. The descriptions of the different calculators are so excellent (like a connoisseur describing the very best wines) that after reading them, I often tell myself, and I am sure I'm not the only one: "Wow, this calculator is a true piece of art! I need one, I want one!".

I am not the worst offender,having acquired few HPs in Ebay and at relatively good prices. But whenever prices are too high for me (99% of the time), a little voice in my head blames the HP museum.

I guess what I am saying is that sometimes I wish I was the only one to have access to this site. Or at least the only one allowed to bid on Ebay!

-- Alex Binca

After reading this, I have to agree. Let's Tar & Feather DAVE. To damn good of site and its influence has made to damn many Hp collector enthusiests.

I'm starting on warming the Tar & someone else, get the feathers.

I don't think there is anything wrong with an early bid. I have bid early and late and usually get beat most of the time. eBay allows you to watch up to 20 items without bidding, so there is a way to track without bidding. I stopped bidding on HP calc stuff a long time ago. Gone are the days when you can get a 41c, barcode reader and a printer all with instructions for $100 like I did about 3 years ago. Just my $.02 worth. Randy

Theories about early bidding and "sniping" all seem to ignore the inalterable, undeniable (and from some naiive viewpoints, unfortunate) fact that there apparently are people more than willing to ultimately, actually pay the prices we are seeing.

eBay has created a new, global marketplace, and items of limited availability, high quality and excellent design (to say nothing of ongoing usefulness!) are naturally going to command high prices. Everyone who might be remotely interested is now easily aware of, and conveniently participating in, the sales.

The MoHPC has done its part in furthering awareness of this one collector's market segment, but I think that such awareness was inevitable, given the uniqueness and quality of the products that are its subject. You can long for the good old days of belonging to a small, select group of knowledgeable insiders, but they're gone. The genie is out of the bottle, and the Market will set the prices.

I'm reminded of the 60's, 70's & beyond, when the prices of used guitars started climbing steadily as collectors gobbled them up. Martins, Gibsons & etc. by the dozens in "rich" collectors' closets, not even being used -- it seemed a crime.

There must be a theory published somewhere about a predictable "collecting life cycle", with an "early adopter" period that is optimum for collection-building, and a later "fad" phase when it's maximally profitable to sell off duplicates and lower-quality items. (I think we're in the latter phase now, with respect to HP Calculators!) I wonder what the total cycle looks like, and what to expect next? (I imagine all such cycles have been accelerated and accentuated recently by the "market lubrication" effects of the Internet and eBay.) Any thoughts?

We might consider joining in a concerted, tongue-in-cheek "Calculator Collecting is Nerdy and Dead!" campaign to drive down demand . . .

Yes, Collecting Calculators is Nerdy and Dead. Pass the word.

I've seen various publications from time to time setting themselves up as the definitive price guide to collecting "x". Unfortunately, I've also sat by and watched as once valuable items plunge downwards in value (to below zero, where you have to pay somebody to take them away) only to rise upwards on their collectible value, then appear in one of these books.

So... the thing to do is catch these things at the bottom of their "worth" curve, get paid to take them off of people's hands, then write a book (or website...) about how cool and collectible and valuable they are, then sell off on ebay to boost the prices higher and higher. Who needs the stock market!

Recent opportunities include: manual typewriters, dot-matrix printers, Macintoshes, 8-track tapes, reel-reel tapes, vaccuum tubes, analog audio equipment, whatever. The only ones I can think of now are like micro-fiche readers, 286/386 computers, computer monitors, 8- and 16-mm films and projectors, filmstrip projectors, stuff like that. Keep an eye on your local Goodwill or Thrift Store and see what doesn't move, then swoop in and make _your_ move. The future of collectibles awaits!

In the meantime, I'll take some of those old boring junky nerdy yesterday calculators off of your hands to help you make room for those micro-fiche readers you'll be needing!

Happy Holidays,

Dan

Bidding early also lets others in the community know that you are interested in that particular item. Many times I won't bid against a fellow enthusiast that I have had dealings with unless I REALLY want that item. Sometimes, I have even emailed that person and tell him my intentions. In my opinion, it is not really the early bids that drive the prices sky high, it is the last minute or even last second sniping attempts by more than one bidder that really drive the prices high. These last second snipers probably leave extremely high bids because they want the item badly. This is just basic economics and has nothing to do with early bidding. Of course there is the argument that many early bids is an idicator of the popularity of and how many people are watching the item. This would make a last minute sniper increase his bid.

Yes, on some of the more collectible items, this happens. But on the routine HP items that sell on ebay, there is not much of a jump at the last second. Only on the more rare items. The early bidders on these are always the cause of higher prices.

However, the early bidders do do a service. Most HP collectors don't really have to search much.

There a few that must sit up at night and bid on every single HP item that comes along. All you have to do is look at what they have placed bids on that night. Easy work, thanks to them.

One last thing. Sniping never takes something away from someone that bid early. If these snipers (me too) did not bid at the last second, they would still beat the low-ball bidders.

If an item is desireable, it can never be won by early bidding.

An early bidder is not necessrily a low-ball bidder.

Some people just bid early to mark the auction as one to watch. But a lot will do this and then bid a couple of time s more, after they have been outbid.

I have a mile-long list of such people. But they always drop out early.

Mike

I know that I am guilty of making multiple bids. But, I am getting better at not making them. I am particularly fond of the Buy it now feature. Especially if I think the price is reasonable. BTW, I mostly buy stamp stuff. HPs are just way out of reach for what I am looking for. Nomely a 67 and a 97. Taking the "Find it cheap" route is a favorite of mine. This includes finding a 15c in a pawn shop for $20! It also had the manual. Randy

Some of these snipers don't have a clue about collecting, or about being a valuable member of a small community. These dealers simply snipe, then try to resell the item a week later at 3X the price. Makes me sick. Thankfully, the other 99% of the collectors are great folks.